CALENDARED VINYL with MATTE OVERLAM for print & cut vehicle decals

[Chuck Taylor]

Hello - we need to do a print & cut onto a vehicle grade gloss vinyl which is a calendared product. The client wants this to have a matte finish though. We did this job for them using a printable Hexis vinyl about a year ago, but unfortunately, because both the vinyl and lam were calendared, the decal has shrunk and is starting to lift. We have looked into a variety of options, but these are just a couple small decals we need to replace and don't want to invest in a whole roll of anything right now, as this is something we don't do very often. I was sure I read (at one time... somewhere) that the solution to this might be to cut the calendared matte overlam a bit larger than the decal itself to eliminate this shrinkage issue. Is there anyone out there who has used this method before, and how successful have you been and how much of a bleed would you recommend applying to the cutting of the lam? Again, I don't want to invest in a bunch of material to sit and expire on my shop floor, but I also don't want a repeat of what happened the last time. Note - we are planning to reprint these onto a calendared AUTOMARK - 2.4 ml white gloss and laminate with a Arlon Series 3420 calendared Matte Lam. Thank you all in advance for your advice!

 

[CanuckSigns]

Automark is a calendered vinyl as well, the Arlon laminate you mentioned should work perfectly fine for it, however with vehicles you should be using a true cast vinyl and laminate, but I understand not wanting to buy a full roll of each if it's not something you do often.

We use the Arlon 3420 laminate and it's a really good laminate as far as calendered lams go, very little shrinkage.

 

[Black Star]

Hello - we need to do a print & cut onto a vehicle grade gloss vinyl which is a calendared product. The client wants this to have a matte finish though. We did this job for them using a printable Hexis vinyl about a year ago, but unfortunately, because both the vinyl and lam were calendared, the decal has shrunk and is starting to lift. We have looked into a variety of options, but these are just a couple small decals we need to replace and don't want to invest in a whole roll of anything right now, as this is something we don't do very often. I was sure I read (at one time... somewhere) that the solution to this might be to cut the calendared matte overlam a bit larger than the decal itself to eliminate this shrinkage issue. Is there anyone out there who has used this method before, and how successful have you been and how much of a bleed would you recommend applying to the cutting of the lam? Again, I don't want to invest in a bunch of material to sit and expire on my shop floor, but I also don't want a repeat of what happened the last time. Note - we are planning to reprint these onto a calendared AUTOMARK - 2.4 ml white gloss and laminate with a Arlon Series 3420 calendared Matte Lam. Thank you all in advance for your advice!

I've tried to make calendared vinyl work on vehicles and it just never does. Maybe you can outsource these stickers to a vendor that can supply with cast materials?

 

[Chuck Taylor]

Automark is a calendered vinyl as well, the Arlon laminate you mentioned should work perfectly fine for it, however with vehicles you should be using a true cast vinyl and laminate, but I understand not wanting to buy a full roll of each if it's not something you do often.

We use the Arlon 3420 laminate and it's a really good laminate as far as calendered lams go, very little shrinkage.

Thank you for your input and suggestions - much appreciated!

 

[Chuck Taylor]

I've tried to make calendared vinyl work on vehicles and it just never does. Maybe you can outsource these stickers to a vendor that can supply with cast materials?

Thanks for your suggestion, Black Star. It's interesting that the AUTOMARK is a calendared, and I'm seeing so much vehicle vinyl out there that is, however, it's always been my understanding that cast is best (we took a gamble on this job and it bit us in the butt... LOL). I wonder if they have new processes now when manufacturing the calendared vinyl to allow it to stand up better... I find it a bit confusing that they'd even make anything other than cast for vehicle graphics.

 

[Chuck Taylor]

Thank you for your input and suggestions - much appreciated!

Forgot to ask... what do you think about cutting the matte overlam a tad larger than the decal itself? Have you ever heard of or used this techique?

 

[CanuckSigns]

Forgot to ask... what do you think about cutting the matte overlam a tad larger than the decal itself? Have you ever heard of or used this techique?

Never done it, it shouldn't need to be done.

As far as calendered vs. Cast, there are "high performance" calendered films like 3M 40c, arlon 4600 etc. That can be used on some vehicles if needed, they are also great films for dibond signs and other medium to long term graphics,

Arlon 4600 is our go to film.

 

[Z SIGNS]

Just spray some matte clearshield on your decal

 

[DL Signs]

Check with your vinyl vendors, you probably won't have to buy a full roll, many sell select stuff by the foot/ yard...

 

[Chuck Taylor]

Just spray some matte clearshield on your decal

Thanks for your suggestion - I will have to check this product out

 

[frankzilla]

I always use 3M IJ35mc for printed cut vehicle graphics and then overlam with the Arlon 3420 for UV protection and matte finish.

Been my go-to for almost a decade and as mentioned, the lam has very little shrinkage.

These also depend on your prints, the more ink density, the more possible shrinkage might occur as the way the vinyl has degraded from the ink, if using eco-solvent.

Eitherway, your situation of lam lifting from the vinyl, is the problem with having a good lam adhesive. The Arlon series is just hard to beat for price and quality. Oraguard (Orafol) can be a good equal or better or worse give or take, but it just costs more that it doesn't make a huge difference between them.

 

[Ronny Axelsson]

The shrinkage in your picture doesn't look normal, not even for a calendared vinyl, and certainly not for a rather small sticker on an almost flat surface.
How do you apply the laminate?
Is it possible that you stretch the laminate when you apply it, and that it simply shrinks back to "normal" again?

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

I agree with Ronnie. Cal vinyl shouldnt peel up that like... It will shrink but stay flat.

You get order a small blank white price from any wholesaler. S365 sells cast 3m and will lam with matte. Just order a 24x24 square or whatever size you need.

 

[White Haus]

We never use cal vinyl or lam on vehicle graphics anymore.

Usually go with 3M Ij180cv3 + 8518 or Avery equivalent.

 

[signheremd]

I know you don't want to hear it, but problem here is the wrong materials were used. Calendared is really meant for short-term vehicle graphics and does not conform to curves as well as cast vinyl. It is also less dimensionally stable. You've already gotten some good advice within the parameters that you set, so you should have the solution you will go with. But let me add food for thought with a different approach: why not purchase one roll of cast wrap vinyl? Surely this is not the only vehicle you will do in the next few years. Most cast wrap vinyls are 7-10 year life, so not likely to rot on the shelf. Grimco offers their WrapCast vinyl at a very low price. This vinyl is light initial tack and should be post form heated, but it does have stronger initial tack than say Arlon SLX or Oracal 3951 ProSlide and lower initial tack than Avery MPI1105SC Ltr EZ or Oracal 3951 Rapid Air. Combine it with a reasonably priced cast laminate, like Arlon 3270 or Briteline WrapCast Overlaminate and you have your cost savings and the durability you need.

 

[Stacey K]

If it's something you don't do often then just order it from Firesprint or Signs365...you will receive in a couple days just upload your file for pennies compared to ordering an entire roll. For vehicles I always use a cast vinyl.

Signs365 is this stuff below and Firesprint would be the "permanent with gloss"

 

[Lindsey]

Forgot to ask... what do you think about cutting the matte overlam a tad larger than the decal itself? Have you ever heard of or used this techique?

I think that sounds like a bad idea. If it's just "a tad" (like less than 1/4" larger) I think it will lift up easily. If it's bigger (say 1/2" or more) it will be very obvious.

 

[truckgraphics]

It looks like your problem has more to do with the fact that it is mounted on glass, than with the material. Glass is a problem. Stickers/Decals often don't last a long time on glass. We always warn the customer that stickers on glass probably won't last as long as decals on painted metal. Nobody has complained, and customers seem to accept that explanation.

If you use a cast material or some of the high performance calendared, it's often not sticky enough to adhere to glass properly.

If you use calendared, with a calendared overlaminate, the edges often lift because of shrinkage.

Best bet, in my opinion, is to use any calendared or cast material with a sticky backing and a cast overlaminate. A 30" roll of cast matte shouldn't be too expensive and has a long shelf life.

Also, I recently was instructed that 3M IJ40 is both sticky and high performance, so this might be a good way to go. Actually, we're going to try it on our next inventory cycle.

At any rate, we've had good success with any sticky calendared and a cast overlaminate on glass.

 

[Modern Ink Signs]

Cast vinyl and cast lamination.

100% of the time!

Always….

Period.

(At least for my shop. I will not put saving a buck or two over quality. I’ve been doing this since 1988 and have always used cast vinyl for vehicles)

 

[bob]

First, using calendared media instead of cast means that you get to save, quite literally, a few cents. Not worth it. Then, after looking at your photo, I've never before seen properly installed laminate lift off the media like this. This would lead one to believe that it wasn't properly installed. I assume that this is just a crappy photo and the gray is really unprinted white and not a full bleed. If the latter then that has a host of problems as well. As for cutting the laminate larger than the decal, it requires two passes through your plotter as well as two weeding sessions and makes for an interesting, to say the least, job. Moreover, why do you expect the laminate to be any sturier than the media?