Cash N Carry vs Install

[SignMan2u]

I sent out a bid for 6 trucks, 1 trailer and 8 4x8 site signs for a company 30 minutes away with a quick general mock-up. Apparently the owners loved the mock-ups (they had someone design them a new logo and it's much sharper than the old one). She then asked me if they put the decals on themselves if I would come out and measure for them but not install them. I should add this and add that and resend the mock-ups. I didn't respond to that part but my overall response was...

"If you buy decals from me they are considered "cash n carry" and it's up to the customer to tell me total height and width of the decals and then I cut them. If I have to come out and measure, you will get charged for that time, it's included if I install them but not a cash and carry fee."

I'm a little frustrated because this isn't really the way it works...or am I wrong? I'm shocked they even have time to mess around with such a task...I DON'T HAVE TIME TO CUT MY GRASS, I HIRE MY RENTER!

Hi Stacey,
The verbiage can make a difference on how your value added items are perceived by your clients and prospects, but you will always have to deal with those individuals that are looking for cheap, instead of inexpensive or do not have the mentality for business and will treat you like your business is operated in a Flee Market.
When you are providing estimates/quotes to your clients/customers and prospects, the perception of value will drive the sale and also provide the client and prospects options from those valued items.
We would call any onsite visit to obtain dimensions, a "survey" (value item), and instead of the term "cash & carry," try using the acronym RTA (Ready to apply) for printed and/or cut lettering/graphics.
The highest expense within the sign industry is your labor (BIG VALUE ITEM). The burden rate of labor, whether shop labor or installation labor, will be the determining factor of your pricing at your shop or onsite. With that said, if you travel to any location, you can add a standard site visit charge for a survey. As long as you can maintain a good business model and not get frustrated with clients and prospects with a Flee Market mentality, your good clients will recognize that and maybe realize your industry is no different than theirs in the sense that you also have fixed and variable business expenses.
The sign industry has far more moving parts than any business I am aware of as far as diversity, knowledge and time on deck experience, but keep in mind, in a nutshell, we sell time.

Good luck!

 

[Billct2]

Here ya go. This use to be handed out with 3M vinyl with a squeegee a long time ago.

That's the one I have

 

[Jeremiah]

How do you feel about when the customer says Sure... anyone can put on a Decal or Sticker. The word seems cheap.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Had some catching up to do and here is my take...

Stacy - You talking about a site survey? charge em for the trip there and back. If they want to avoid that charge, tell em to get out a tape measure.

Robert - I don't know anyone who DOESNT have internet access? You live in Silicon Valley... I can be in the middle of West Texas and not a soul in sight for miles and miles and I got 4G access. Even those California homeless people have cell phones. I'd much rather watch a video of someone doing that than trying to read some instructions with pictograms like some sort of cave man. And no one buys books anymore... but I got a book for you, my Nifty Tips... for sale for $59.99 paperback version.

 

[ikarasu]

Okay---the guy's technique in this video SUCKS!...outright. Water?....initial tape placement at the top of the graphic?, his squeegee technique?----all suck, which is why half of the **** on that van is crooked---bet it has a lot of bubbles too.

Just curious...as I'm open to other ways. Whats wrong with initial placement at the top of the graphic? how else do you get it straight? If you just put it at the sides it'll sag...at the bottom, gravity will get it. usually you put it at the top and work with gravity to align it... Then depending on the graphic we'll either hinge it at the halfway mark like he did, or do a hinge at the side.

If you could write your instructions in less than 1000 words so my mind doesn't wonder, thatd be appreciated!

 

[ikarasu]

Boudica Once I have completed it, I will consider posting a link to the Google Document. Yes, I am open to proof reading. So far, it is over 1,000 words so it might not work as a Thread. We shall see.

If your customer wanted 1000 words on a van describing everything their company does.. would you do it, or would you advise them the wrap would be useless because no one would read it?

Your 1000 word instructions can be conveyed much easier, and much better with 5 photos and 50 words. Then your customers clients will likely read and look at the photos and have a much lower failure rate.

How many manuals do you read for items you buy? I'm close to zero. A few photos as an example and some basic text? Hell, I'd likely read it even though I know how to do it already. I say throw the 1000 words out and explain to your client his idea is a terrible one and to go with a few photos and a basic instruction set!

 

[ikarasu]

I sent out a bid for 6 trucks, 1 trailer and 8 4x8 site signs for a company 30 minutes away with a quick general mock-up. Apparently the owners loved the mock-ups (they had someone design them a new logo and it's much sharper than the old one). She then asked me if they put the decals on themselves if I would come out and measure for them but not install them. I should add this and add that and resend the mock-ups. I didn't respond to that part but my overall response was...

"If you buy decals from me they are considered "cash n carry" and it's up to the customer to tell me total height and width of the decals and then I cut them. If I have to come out and measure, you will get charged for that time, it's included if I install them but not a cash and carry fee."

I'm a little frustrated because this isn't really the way it works...or am I wrong? I'm shocked they even have time to mess around with such a task...I DON'T HAVE TIME TO CUT MY GRASS, I HIRE MY RENTER!

Why not just say you sure, you can go down and measure the items, but it'll be at your standard hourly rate which is XX per hour. 30 mins there...30 mins back, 5 minutes to measure... then head out when it's convenient and slow for you. Most people will understand they cant expect you to take an hour out of your day to do something for free.

Or, tell them your delivery fee is $xx for the 4x8 signs... once theyre done you'll deliver them and while you're out there you'll spend the 5 minutes it takes to measure the vehicles... and throw them in the mail once theyre done.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Just curious...as I'm open to other ways. Whats wrong with initial placement at the top of the graphic? how else do you get it straight? If you just put it at the sides it'll sag...at the bottom, gravity will get it. usually you put it at the top and work with gravity to align it... Then depending on the graphic we'll either hinge it at the halfway mark like he did, or do a hinge at the side.

If you could write your instructions in less than 1000 words so my mind doesn't wonder, thatd be appreciated!

I mostly do top hinge because you're working with gravity. If I do a side hinge,I do it about 12" in the graphic so it gets a good straight start

 

[Jester1167]

Quote ikarasu
"Your 1000 word instructions can be conveyed much easier, and much better with 5 photos and 50 words. Then your customers clients will likely read and look at the photos and have a much lower failure rate.

How many manuals do you read for items you buy? I'm close to zero. A few photos as an example and some basic text? Hell, I'd likely read it even though I know how to do it already. I say throw the 1000 words out and explain to your client his idea is a terrible one and to go with a few photos and a basic instruction set!"

I was thinking the exact same thing. Anything beyond 10 steps with 5 pictures will confuse them and or end up in the trash.

 

[Jester1167]

I made this 8 years ago and because I decided to be an installation only company, it never got fully vetted and used. There are a few things it would change. I would remove Windex from the cleaning supplies, mention that they should use alcohol as a final cleaning stage, and probably show an edge-on view of removing the mask at 180 degrees.

At the previous companies I worked at, we would grab a sample decal and quickly describe the process as we installed a graphic on our front counter, hand them a cheap squeegee, and wish them luck.

 

[Jester1167]

Back on topic.

Stacey, my conversation would go something like this "I would be happy to come out and measure those for you. I will be a few days before my schedule frees up, and there would be a "blank" fee for the travel and survey. If you or one of your employees are good with a tape measure and a phone camera you could save a few dollars and we could get this to you sooner."

If you don't value your time, your customers won't.

I also try and give myself some extra time so I can schedule these types of things when I am already out and in that direction if possible so I can maximize productivity. If the opportunity pops up sooner, you've just under promised and over delivered.

Photo Measures is one of my favorite phone apps and is great for site surveys and it's been a while but My Measure is great too.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Yall are overthinking this. The customer probably thinks that you coming out is the easiest way for you, not necessarily for them. Just tell them to have the driver stop by next time he's passing by. Another way is to buy a template or just grab dimensions from a preview. You can also tell them to take a picture and measure the width of the door. Telling them straight out of the gate to pay you $50-100 to come out makes you look like a difficult person and is a good way to get a bad rep.

 

[Jester1167]

If it's just the vehicles that need to be measured Notarealsignguy, your right. I would just want a quick picture of each to confirm make, model, cab design. Then use Mr. Clipart for the templates and design with reasonable negative space. Heck, if they are just the doors I would just design one common size that fits a 12 to 16" x 24" truck door space. The less sizes the cheaper they get. The images provided with the box truck length will tell you what cab brand they are using, Isuzu, Ford, Chevy, International... Isuzu will have to be smaller than all the rest.

I bought a lifetime membership a few years ago for a steal so all I need is a picture to confirm the vehicle with a little other like year. It does help to have a picture, especially with vans because there are so many variations with swing and sliding door and then windows.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

I usually tell people to tape a dollar bill to the vehicle and take a straight-on photo. You can size the dollar bill up in Flexi pretty easy...

 

[Stacey K]

Follow up email from here was 2 quote for 4 different vehicles one with me installing, one with them installing. Dodge, old Chevy, new Chevy and Dodge 1 ton. And vinyl only for 2 - 4x8 signs. "If you need to wait a while to get more accurate measurements of the vehicles, we can be patient" - they want me to measure at my convenience so they don't get charged for it. And she added a whole bunch of other stuff they "eventually" need - to try and hook me into going there and measuring for free.

I have a company I work with that has several vans. The owner enjoys installing vinyl. They had ordered a TON of apparel from me so I was good with just cutting the vinyl. He told me the total height and width of the side panels and sent a pic of a current van. "This info has to fit into this rectangle" - EASY. I had it all set up in my computer with Mr. Clipart and HE stopped over with a van so I could take a couple pics. Sent it over, he approved, I cut it out. Easy for both of us. I made money and he enjoyed applying the vinyl. Win Win!

This is different. I'll be nice but I feel like people try and push to see what they get out of you and I'm not doing that. I'm booked out 3 weeks for installs right now so I'm not desperate at this point. Maybe in January! LOL

 

[Jester1167]

Just a warning for those that use vector vehicle templates. Most templets used to leave off the huge Dodge truck door emblems that were in the graphic area. If you don't have a picture of the actual vehicle, it is a good idea to do a quick image search for the Make, Model, and Year for a visual check.

The other thing I will typically do for mixed fleets is to try and create a one size fits all graphics set. Sell it by giving a small discount and explain that it will make things easier when one of the vehicles gets damaged. You won't have to stop by so I can measure which size it was. Instead, I can cut one and have it ready to install saving you a trip or trip charge. On large fleets, there are always a few outliers, but a magnet sized 12" - 18" x 24" graphic will fit most service industry vehicles.

That small discount is warranted because you have only one file to set up and you just make multiple copies.