CET Flatbed Printer Electrical Issues

[Letterbox Mike]

Wow, I remember only a short time ago how many (Mike included) were very excited by what they saw in CET flatbeds and were eager to give this company a chance. Very disappointing to read about all these troubles and to hear CET isn't willing to back up what they sold everyone.

Really hope everyone gets this sorted out and that CET steps up to the plate to make things right.

I can't take away from CET the fact that they have been extremely responsive in trying to resolve issues as they pop up. They have not "abandoned" us. But unfortunately, that only goes so far when the machines break down week after week and a lot of the time they don't really know what the problem is so trouble-shooting and making the necessary repairs can take another week. Right now we've been down with the exception of a few days or hours here and there since the week of July 4th. A technician has been on site a significant portion of the time and if they are able to fix one thing, something else breaks.

 

[tomence]

Who is next? FLORA?

 

[aaronmgd]

Who is next? FLORA?

tomence, flora and cet used to be one and the same... then they split apart. From what I hear about flora is that its the cet build with all the kinks worked out. I also hear that flora does stand behind their builds. if its true or not i cannot say. I will also say that my issue is not that cet does not send techs out, they do. However it sometimes takes over a week for them to get here (in one case it took 3-4 weeks for them to finally send a tech). In that time we are obviously down and losing money. And when the techs finally fix the supposed issue a few days later something else goes and the cycle starts again.... I really just want CET to take the machine back and start fresh.... Problem is Dave Cich refuses to return our calls even after promising to call us. What a shame... and what a waste of $100k...

 

[CS-SignSupply]

Feel free to contact me if you have any questions on the Flora. Come see the equipment for yourself...

Call and schedule a visit to my office in GA or GraphixDirect in CA and we will reimburse your airfare and overnight hotel stay if you decide to purchase the Flora unit. Call me or GraphixDirect for details. 1-877-602-4237

You can also make plans to see us and Flora in Orlando at SGIA (October 23-25)

 

[10sacer]

Way back when I worked for DuPont and we made UV machines with FLORA - we had a customer that insisted on having their machine shipped on a flatbed truck uncovered. So we made them sign a waiver that any resulting damage incurred during shipping to include getting flooded by rain and stuff just crashing into it at 70 MPH was outof our control. So of course, it rained all over the printer in transit, but we installed the printer anyway per their command. We had continual electrical issues with the machine for several months until we just swapped it out with one that was shipped correctly per OUR specifications and at considerable expense to the end user. Which leads me to ask this question on your electrical issues - how was your machine shipped to you? The 3 CETs that I have/had were all in crates inside a semi and I have one of the few now that has 16 heads in it. We installed a buck booster and a line conditioner and have not had the problems you are describing. Our temp/humidity is steady 72/50+%

 

[davecich]

the other side

All, I knew after selling a couple hundred flatbed printers, I unfortunately would have to pen an e-mail similar to this someday.

I was never sure what I would say, so for those who know me, I'll just be me and tell the truth.

Mike And Aaron have both had issues with thier printers the last 4 weeks. Both printer were bought over a year ago. They have different models, and different issues. Their is nothing more I would like than for them to be fixed yesterday. and for both to be happy customers again.

They own different models and machines, a 500x and a 500H. I have a tech on site at each again. The issue on the 500X was with the uv lamp assembly power supply, and not full curing. My tech just texted me pictures of what was causing the issue, which was a cable that had worn down from rubbing and would short intermitently. It is being fixed currently, and I am leaving my tech there until at least Monday to make sure it does not re-appear. On Mike's machine (500H), We currently have no idea what the issue is, but have a tech on site, and will continue to until we fix it once and for all. The printer is running. What is happening is that the breaker trips randomly. The printer may run fine for 7 hours, then trip. It averages a trip a day. We are committed to fixing the issue quickly. Our next step if it happens again is to install a line recorder, as this issue began when Mike started the expansion of his building, I am being told. In both instances, my techs will work the weekend through to do all we can to satisfy our customers. All, I learned a long time ago at Oce that printers break, electricty changes, and things happen. It is how you respond that matters. These two have been difficult, I agree. Both customers are running, one is fixed, and the other will be shortly. All service has been at no charge of course. I will check back in a week and give everyone a final update. -Dave

 

[parrott]

So the plot thickens. Just received a phone call from a great friend and an incredible salesman who works for CET (which made our decision to go with HP even harder). He is very aware of the situation and they are working incredibly hard to resolve the problem. I am going to private message you his information and promise he will take good care of you. I stand behind his word 100%.

 

[HulkSmash]

All,I knew after a couple hundred units I would have to pen an e-mail similar to this someday.

I was never sure what I would say, so for those who know me, I'll just tell the truth.

Mike And Aaron have both had issues with thier printers the last 4 weeks. Both printer were bought over a year ago. They have different models, and different issues. Thier is nothing more I would like than for them to be fixed yesterday.

They are different model machines, a 500x and a 500H.

Their issues started before the 1 year mark, well before it.

 

[10sacer]

I don't want to get involved with the "firing squad" but as someone who was VERY close to purchasing a CET printer 6 months ago I'm really disappointed to hear all these nightmare stories and even more disappointed by this reply. (which doesn't say anything that isn't already public knowledge)

I really hope these issues get sorted out and that there is compensation involved....when a company (small or large) puts their faith in a $100K+ piece of equipment which in turn costs them more money than they make with it...that's just not right. And now it's apparent that this isn't an isolated incident.

That's all I'm going to say.

I wouldn't classify this as a "nightmare" situation. Having your Vutek catch fire and nearly burn your shop down would be a nightmare situation. And there are no nightmare stories about every other manufacturer out there? I know when you spend thousands of dollars on something you think it is bullet proof and will last a lifetime and you would think that every E class Mercedes would be perfect - but they aren't.

 

[aaronmgd]

Dave, i am surprised you are playing stupid and acting as if the issues only started 4 weeks ago. You are well aware of the fact that this is going on for months, issue after issue. As a matter of fact the printer had problems since the day we got it.

10ascer to answer your question the machine was delivered on a flatbed truck (without our knowledge) we never asked them to ship it out that way. When the machine arrived back then it was sopping wet. I called CET right away in a panic asking what to do, if i should refuse the delivery or not. CET assured me to sign off on it and they will remedy any issues it might have. they even had the freight company reverse the shipping cost since they mishandled it. i would not be surprised if CET filed a claim with them and got money back on the machine.

below is the email Dave Cich sent me when this happened...

"
Aaron,

I am back in Atlanta today. I’m sorry that your printer arrived in less than ideal shape. We will make sure that the printer is restored to factory specs, and that it is 100%.

Please call me if you would like, otherwise I will follow up with you post install.

Sincerely,

Dave Cich
dcich@cetcolor.com
404-505-1800 x11
www.cetcolor.com
"

due to the email above i decided not to have the machine returned and let CET fulfill their promise. I will say this again as I have said before "CET DID SEND TAKES TO TRY AND FIX IT". It took them close to a month of the initial delivery to get it up and running.....somewhat. Ever since the machine has not had 4 consecutive weeks without issues. We have had techs here about 15 times in 1 year with the machine being down at least 1 week each time the machine went down...

Dave, you promised my partner you were going to call him last friday, did you? You promised me in early june that June 24th when you come back from vacation you will call me, did you?

And one more thing.... Mike in OH informed me today of his issues and they are the same as mine. He has the hybrid version and i have the flatbed version but the issues seem to be the same.

The tech just left here.... gues what he found (i dont know if this will be a final fix... i doubt it at least) the UV switches for Hi/Lo were mislabled.... Mislabled? 15 times that a tech was here nobody caught that? CET should be embarrassed. Dave, you out of all people should stop hiding behind a veil and explain the build quality of your machines.

Aaron

 

[davecich]

Now that CET has been out for a few years... i'm seeing alot of issues people are starting to have.
I know a guy on here has one that is a lemon.. it's been down like 4 months out of a year.. that's a lot..

call CET and tell them figure it out.

Adam, I just read this. My cell # is 404-915-7524. I am calling you now, as I am not aware of this and this is a strong statement, which I dont think is true, but I need to make sure. Please call me back.- Dave

 

[aaronmgd]

I want to make something clear. I started this thread to see if there are any other companies out there with similar issues to ours, simply since i was wondering if these issues will be gone one day or if i am looking at a larger issue with these printers that will be ongoing. I was not expecting the responses that I got. I was shocked to find out that there are others out there suffering from similar issues as ours. I would like to point out something I feel is important. The technicians at CET (Ryan, Jang, Nadim & ICE) are all wonderful and try really hard to work out the issues. They give a great effort in trying to figure out what in the world is up with machine. They are very dedicated but are unfortunately dealing with a very cheap build. A mechanic is only as good as his tools....
My problem is beyond now. I am concerned about how long this will go on and what will be in a year or so. I did not purchase a machine so that it should last 2 years. I bought with the intent of having at least 5 years out of it. I know machine break and problems happen, but i dont believe anybody would be ok with a machine that has not operated well from day 1....
Dave, why are you so surprised about about what colorodosigns is saying? why is his statement so strong?

 

[HulkSmash]

Adam, I just read this. My cell # is 404-915-7524. I am calling you now, as I am not aware of this and this is a strong statement, which I dont think is true, but I need to make sure. Please call me back.- Dave

Sorry dave, I'm running out on an install and will be back later. But i was referring to mike from insignia. I've been in talks with him for over 8 months on weather i was going to go with the CET or not...
day by day i heard his issues, and made me more and more cautious on the machines... hence our decision to finally get an HP FB.

 

[Letterbox Mike]

Dave,

Thank you for the reply, and I'm looking forward to meeting you next week.

Let me preface this by saying you are correct that CET has definitely stood behind the machine and has gone above and beyond to keep it running, and that has not gone unnoticed.

That said, As Colorado pointed out, our issues started almost from day one. Per your technician 8 months into ownership, we were poorly trained by Advantage, to which you agreed and have already attempted to compensate us for with a $4500 ink credit, and we were able to get half of our training money back from Advantage as well.

That said, as I type this I am compiling a detailed timeline of breakdowns and it's nothing short of stunning, which I know you are well aware because we've spoken at length on an ongoing basis. My problem with CET is not you, or CET or your support, it's the fact that my machine is highly unreliable. Maybe I got a lemon, maybe some of the gremlins are a result of it initially being installed wrong and/or us being trained poorly, who really knows.

The bottom line is I've had a combined total of 4.5 MONTHS of downtime in 16 months of ownership. In just lease payments alone that's close to $10k out of my pocket. Not to mention the expense of the added overhead we've assumed because of the printer, the lost jobs, lost customers, and wasted media, ink and labor. The financial losses we face are absolutely enormous and devastating.

And, to address the voltage issue, this problem started before we moved the machine into it's new place, this started a week or so prior to that move (it's only been there since this past Tuesday, Ryan was here most of last week trying to figure this out to no avail). When we moved the machine we ran a second circuit for it as a dedicated power feed for the blowers, which were separated out on Wednesday of this week, but that did not solve the problem either.

At the moment, we've been printing solid for about 3 hours with no shutdowns. My understanding is Tee flip-flopped which power cord was plugged into which outlet, and installed a new UV power cable. We'll continue to print throughout the weekend and we will see if it continues to be stable or the problem reappears.

To be clear Dave, I am in no way interested in or trying to drag CET's name or your name through the mud. I just want a printer that works reliably so I can pay for it, and I want/deserve some sort of monetary compensation for the lost business and excessive down time this has cost my company.

 

[Letterbox Mike]

The tech just left here.... gues what he found (i dont know if this will be a final fix... i doubt it at least) the UV switches for Hi/Lo were mislabled.... Mislabled? 15 times that a tech was here nobody caught that? CET should be embarrassed. Dave, you out of all people should stop hiding behind a veil and explain the build quality of your machines.

Aaron

Yeah, mine were too. That's not the fix, but it's "nice" to know. For 16 months we had been turning the high lamps on first, then the low, which had to have been putting a huge strain on the UV system. Ryan re-labeled ours so they're correct, but the problem persisted. My gut says the problem is now with the ballasts/power block for the UV system itself, which was probably caused by the stickers being stuck in the wrong places from the factory...

Yup.

 

[davecich]

Dave,

Thank you for the reply, and I'm looking forward to meeting you next week.

Let me preface this by saying you are correct that CET has definitely stood behind the machine and has gone above and beyond to keep it running, and that has not gone unnoticed.

That said, As Colorado pointed out, our issues started almost from day one. Per your technician 8 months into ownership, we were poorly trained by Advantage, to which you agreed and have already attempted to compensate us for with a $4500 ink credit, and we were able to get half of our training money back from Advantage as well.

That said, as I type this I am compiling a detailed timeline of breakdowns and it's nothing short of stunning, which I know you are well aware because we've spoken at length on an ongoing basis. My problem with CET is not you, or CET or your support, it's the fact that my machine is highly unreliable. Maybe I got a lemon, maybe some of the gremlins are a result of it initially being installed wrong and/or us being trained poorly, who really knows.

The bottom line is I've had a combined total of 4.5 MONTHS of downtime in 16 months of ownership. In just lease payments alone that's close to $10k out of my pocket. Not to mention the expense of the added overhead we've assumed because of the printer, the lost jobs, lost customers, and wasted media, ink and labor. The financial losses we face are absolutely enormous and devastating.

And, to address the voltage issue, this problem started before we moved the machine into it's new place, this started a week or so prior to that move (it's only been there since this past Tuesday, Ryan was here most of last week trying to figure this out to no avail). When we moved the machine we ran a second circuit for it as a dedicated power feed for the blowers, which were separated out on Wednesday of this week, but that did not solve the problem either.

At the moment, we've been printing solid for about 3 hours with no shutdowns. My understanding is Tee flip-flopped which power cord was plugged into which outlet, and installed a new UV power cable. We'll continue to print throughout the weekend and we will see if it continues to be stable or the problem reappears.

To be clear Dave, I am in no way interested in or trying to drag CET's name or your name through the mud. I just want a printer that works reliably so I can pay for it, and I want/deserve some sort of monetary compensation for the lost business and excessive down time this has cost my company.

Mike, Thank you for the message, you are a gentleman. We will meet next week, as I do feel that some of this could have been avoided with proper training. We will hash it out then. Dave

 

[10sacer]

10ascer to answer your question the machine was delivered on a flatbed truck (without our knowledge) we never asked them to ship it out that way. When the machine arrived back then it was sopping wet. I called CET right away in a panic asking what to do, if i should refuse the delivery or not. CET assured me to sign off on it and they will remedy any issues it might have. they even had the freight company reverse the shipping cost since they mishandled it. i would not be surprised if CET filed a claim with them and got money back on the machine.

There is no way a company shipped you a $100K machine and you had no knowledge of the means by which it was being shipped. YOU have to decide that. They don't know if you have a loading dock or not - you have to tell them these things. Thats what a pre-site survey is for.

I can't speak to your other issues. I have had 3 CET models and actually had model 001 of the old FK series and - apart from crap that I did to the machines out of stupidity or error - they have all performed as expected. I think I have the only Q series with 16 heads in it - not sure though.

 

[aaronmgd]

10sacer, before making assumptions get the facts. I got it... You are very pleased with you cet. However even Carrie Bowen, ice, and Dave chich were all shocked when they found out it was shipped on an open bed truck.... I have documented emails proving that. Why they did not ask us prior? Don't know.... You might want to ask the dealer that sold it. Not only that, the freight company was only supposed to haul our crate with the printer and nothing else but they decided without anyone's knowlege to haul another load together with our printer and at some point removed our printer from the truck in a loading yard and then put it back on.... I also have documented evidence of that as well. I have no reason to attack cet and make up stories.... I have proof of everything I wrote. if you want me to send it, just ask and I will be glad to post it for all to see. You might want to check with Dave cich before answering that question since it seems you have an agenda here to make them look good. I have pictures, videos and emails I would be glad to post publicly.

Btw, Dave got ahold of thus thread and called us today wanting to work things out and promised to stop in next week. If I was full of bs why would he offer that?

10sacer I hope you continue having good luck with your printers and I wish you the best. But to knock someone who is truly suffering as a result of issues beyond our control is really uncalled for and serves you no positive purpose.... Unless of course you have some other agenda..... I wonder?

I am hopeful that when Dave comes next week a resolution can be worked out. I hope he stands up to protect cets name and do the right thing.

I will keep you all posted after his visit at the end if next week.

Aaron

There is no way a company shipped you a $100K machine and you had
no knowledge of the means by which it was being shipped. YOU have to decide that. They don't know if you have a loading dock or not - you have to tell them these things. Thats what a pre-site survey is for.

I can't speak to your other issues. I have had 3 CET models and actually had model 001 of the old FK series and - apart from crap that I did to the machines out of stupidity or error - they have all performed as expected. I think I have the only Q series with 16 heads in it - not sure though.

 

[davecich]

Aaron, I am trying my best to put you back into my happy customer category. I am doing my best to do so. I find it vey disengenuos that you are saying I chose to ship it on a flatbed truck, especially publicly. I am willing to be very flexible, own my issues, and to create a win win situation here, but bluntly, I was asked to ship it on an open bed truck on the po issued to me, as you have no loading dock. Also, their is no doubt that the printer got wet in transit, you have the pictures of the torn tarp, and I offered to build a replacement right away, but because of your situation, the three of us agreed on a course of action which included the wet printer to get you up and running ASAP because of your other situation. As I said on my call today, I stand behind my product. We can work this out face to face next week. Sean, and other CET customers who called today, I thank you for your efforts. That said, Aaron is unhappy and it is my repsonsiblity to try my best to resolve the issues, however unique they may be. Please allow me to do so. Thanks-Dave

 

[HulkSmash]

There is no way a company shipped you a $100K machine and you had no knowledge of the means by which it was being shipped. YOU have to decide that. They don't know if you have a loading dock or not - you have to tell them these things. Thats what a pre-site survey is for.

I can't speak to your other issues. I have had 3 CET models and actually had model 001 of the old FK series and - apart from crap that I did to the machines out of stupidity or error - they have all performed as expected. I think I have the only Q series with 16 heads in it - not sure though.

Not necessarily. When i got a quote for Advantage, they included freight, and said they would organize the whole thing. So I'm guessing the Dealer is to blame for the open shipment.

in any case, the machine got to the customer with issues, that's the bottom line.

 

[National Sign Co. - Print]

Sorry to all.. To me CET = Chinese exported trash.. If you want production by Producion. .. Hell yeah it costs more but you are making money and not dealing with BS..and lip service...