Need Help Client requesting files

[TimToad]

If you have to go that far to protect your proofs then you have the wrong client.

We all deal with clients of varying degrees of honesty, loyalty, transparency, ethics and most of all knowledge about intellectual property rights and related issues. I certainly don't expect every potential client of ours to be well versed on these issues or to be completely honest about their intentions for coming to us in the first place. That doesn't mean we immediately distrust them and create that kind of adversarial dynamic, but we're aware that nothing should be counted on until the deposit is in the bank and signatures are on the proposal.

We just spent a considerable amount of time measuring, quoting and creating proposals for one of the largest alternative energy install contractors in our area after they sought us out after being completely dissatisfied with the work of our nearest competitor. After inspecting the more than a dozen vehicles already done, it was clear that they needed a new vendor. This is a project that calls for roughly $3,500 in interior wall graphics and four full vehicle wraps to be done immediately then a complete peel and redo on a fleet of another dozen Transport size vans next year. From the day they received our quotes, they kept reiterating how fair the pricing was and all they cared about was being in good hands. They never said a word about shopping much further or that we weren't the front runner to get at least the contract to fill the immediate needs.

After receiving multiple calls and emails about our calendar and when we could start on the first items, a few follow up emails of ours went unanswered and then after having completely friendly and trust building assurances throughout the process, my last follow up was answered with a single, plainly worded sentence explaining that they had gone elsewhere. Boom! It can happen that easily.

Thankfully we hadn't done any artwork or pre-production planning besides the quotes.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

We all deal with clients of varying degrees of honesty, loyalty, transparency, ethics and most of all knowledge about intellectual property rights and related issues. I certainly don't expect every potential client of ours to be well versed on these issues or to be completely honest about their intentions for coming to us in the first place. That doesn't mean we immediately distrust them and create that kind of adversarial dynamic, but we're aware that nothing should be counted on until the deposit is in the bank and signatures are on the proposal.

We just spent a considerable amount of time measuring, quoting and creating proposals for one of the largest alternative energy install contractors in our area after they sought us out after being completely dissatisfied with the work of our nearest competitor. After inspecting the more than a dozen vehicles already done, it was clear that they needed a new vendor. This is a project that calls for roughly $3,500 in interior wall graphics and four full vehicle wraps to be done immediately then a complete peel and redo on a fleet of another dozen Transport size vans next year. From the day they received our quotes, they kept reiterating how fair the pricing was and all they cared about was being in good hands. They never said a word about shopping much further or that we weren't the front runner to get at least the contract to fill the immediate needs.

After receiving multiple calls and emails about our calendar and when we could start on the first items, a few follow up emails of ours went unanswered and then after having completely friendly and trust building assurances throughout the process, my last follow up was answered with a single, plainly worded sentence explaining that they had gone elsewhere. Boom! It can happen that easily.

Thankfully we hadn't done any artwork or pre-production planning besides the quotes.

Happens to all of us, welcome to the world of bidding.

 

[spectrum maine]

We recently had a client where a new advertising person came on board and now doesn't want to work with us. They had some bigger jobs and we sort've understood but then we saw what the new company had done and we could've done it in our sleep.

So I get this all sweet email "Hope all is well - can you send us some files." I already charged her for some of them but not enough I'm sure.

I think the files would be going to the new sign vendor so we're just going to ignore the request.

Or, do I reply and say "We'd love to help you as long as you will place an other. Please send a PO" or something like that?

send as low res jpegs.

 

[TimToad]

Happens to all of us, welcome to the world of bidding.

What do you think after 40 years I'm not aware of what competitive bidding is?

Hopefully, the bigger point wasn't lost on anyone. Human relations play into these kinds of decisions as much as raw numbers. We did our best to impress, they appeared plenty happy with the pricing, but somewhere along the line, perhaps the winning bidder told them he'd drop everything and start immediately or something. Or did the dumb thing and offered a quantity discount on all the vans that aren't even on the table yet. Plenty of signmakers do that.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

What do you think after 40 years I'm not aware of what competitive bidding is?

Hopefully, the bigger point wasn't lost on anyone. Human relations play into these kinds of decisions as much as raw numbers. We did our best to impress, they appeared plenty happy with the pricing, but somewhere along the line, perhaps the winning bidder told them he'd drop everything and start immediately or something. Or did the dumb thing and offered a quantity discount on all the vans that aren't even on the table yet. Plenty of signmakers do that.

How did that make you feel?

 

[TimToad]

How did that make you feel?

Which?

You reminding me about the reality of ours and all other businesses who bid on projects or losing the project after being led along a bit by the manager?

We go into every bid with the confidence that our pricing is well researched for what our local market will bear if people are comparing equal skills and reputation. We firmly believe our experience and skills will result in us delivering what we promise.

After that, its a crap shoot on figuring people and their decision making processes out. We try to put ourselves in the best position possible to win every bid, but we have no shortage of work so we don't play the race to the bottom game or let's make a deal. They came to us based on multiple referrals from satisfied clients and all we hope for is that the winning bidder is regarded equally well.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Which?

You reminding me about the reality of ours and all other businesses who bid on projects or losing the project after being led along a bit by the manager?

We go into every bid with the confidence that our pricing is well researched for what our local market will bear if people are comparing equal skills and reputation. We firmly believe our experience and skills will result in us delivering what we promise.

After that, its a crap shoot on figuring people and their decision making processes out. We try to put ourselves in the best position possible to win every bid, but we have no shortage of work so we don't play the race to the bottom game or let's make a deal. They came to us based on multiple referrals from satisfied clients and all we hope for is that the winning bidder is regarded equally well.

What are you going to do different in the future?

 

[TimToad]

What are you going to do different in the future?

Absolutely nothing.

They initially called us and asked about our interest and availability. We went to their location in under 48 hours from that call, took photos, measurements, met with the principle decision makers, took notes, discussed timelines, etc. While there they kept hammering on the competitor they were unhappy with and we kept it very professional and stay focused on information gathering. Securing this client represented a huge opportunity for us.

Despite the potential volume of work, we wrote up a detailed and well researched quote and delivered in a reasonable amount of time.

We followed up once a week until they stopped responding and they actually called us several times during the weeks leading up to the rejection asking about preferred file formats for the artwork, scheduling for the interior graphics, etc.

The way they were acting and still asking questions, they gave no indication that they were still shopping or not preparing to go with us. The "silent" period spanned the Thanksgiving week so we just assumed folks were out and would move forward when they returned.

Obviously, they did, just with someone else.

Short of groveling and pulling the "let us sharpen our pencil" move which is the most unprofessional suck up maneuver in business. We wanted the work, but our business is cooking and we can live without it if that's how they roll.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Absolutely nothing.

They initially called us and asked about our interest and availability. We went to their location in under 48 hours from that call, took photos, measurements, met with the principle decision makers, took notes, discussed timelines, etc. While there they kept hammering on the competitor they were unhappy with and we kept it very professional and stay focused on information gathering. Securing this client represented a huge opportunity for us.

Despite the potential volume of work, we wrote up a detailed and well researched quote and delivered in a reasonable amount of time.

We followed up once a week until they stopped responding and they actually called us several times during the weeks leading up to the rejection asking about preferred file formats for the artwork, scheduling for the interior graphics, etc.

The way they were acting and still asking questions, they gave no indication that they were still shopping or not preparing to go with us. The "silent" period spanned the Thanksgiving week so we just assumed folks were out and would move forward when they returned.

Obviously, they did, just with someone else.

Short of groveling and pulling the "let us sharpen our pencil" move which is the most unprofessional suck up maneuver in business. We wanted the work, but our business is cooking and we can live without it if that's how they roll.

Why do you think it's unprofessional to "sharpen our pencil"?

 

[TimToad]

Why do you think it's unprofessional to "sharpen our pencil"?

It provokes mistrust and signals that your quotes aren't well researched or consistent.

If any bid is open to interpretation and manipulation, why spend any time on putting one together to begin with?

Customers need to know that your quoting process is accurate to begin with, not just when you're being compelled to lower your price to match some other price you may not even be privy to or if another lower bid even exists.

The dart board doesn't enter into our process.

 

[Johnny Best]

I would be real curious why this company did not use you Tim Toad. You do excellent work as you tell us, you are transparent with your dealings with customers, 40 plus years experience and a pillar of the community. Had to be the prices and a better deal from another local company.
Hopefully they also will do a lousy job as the first sign company and they will get back to you. I am sure you have given this much thought and will come to a conclusion though investigation where things went wrong on you not getting this job.
Ya can’t hit a homer every time you get up to bat.

 

[Gino]

They were most lilely, just using you, for a price comparison. Many companies do that, whether you are a new possible vendor or someone new comes into the picture. It's a very accurate way in which to do business, when neither party knows the other.

As for sharpening your pencil, it is one of the oldest business moves. Rather a shrewd way of getting work. I'd rather have 90% of something, than 100% of nothing.

How many times, do people go with another shop, then you find out....... oh, I didn't realize this is what you were gonna do ?? You should've given me another chance. Yep, sometimes, when sharpening a pencil, you just lower some of YOUR expectations and give them something a little different.

Ever bid a job, then think, wonder if I could've done it on 6mm instead of 10mm ?? Wonder if these signs would've lasted the 6 months using a calendered vinyl ?? Perhaps the customer didn't ask the other shop or you the right questions and you bid it wrong. It could happen. Third chance, no, but a second chance,...........

Many deals over the years, in all types of industries, are more than not hammered out and it's usually done over several sessions. How many people ever bought a home, a vehicle or a lawn tractor and haggleed over the price...... it's the American way, but then, you probably wouldn't understand that, huh ??

 

[Johnny Best]

Just talked to Santa for you Toad. Told him you need a pencil sharpener and Trump's "The Art of the Deal" book for Christmas.

 

[TimToad]

Those could all be possibilities in other cases, but in THIS case not likely. The cow could also jump over the moon, but not likely.

The client has its own art department, provided mock ups of EXACTLY what was to be produced and was quite clear on the parameters, timeline and scope of the project. Even with its large volume of work, it wasn't that hard of a quote to put together.

I've lived, worked and negotiated on purchases in America my entire life and fully understand why you have to insult me and others and that you can't help yourself, but your last comment is out of bounds and negates anything else that makes sense you stated.

They didn't try to haggle with us, which is the only way your theory works. If I walk into a restaurant and ask for a menu before sitting down, does the host automatically assume I'm undecided ONLY because of the prices?

Do they follow me out the door and offer to drop the price?

We don't know why they chose someone else. Automatically assuming it had to be for lower prices is wrong and calling them up to grovel by lowering our prices after accurately quoting according to the system we have in place would be putting us at a disadvantage and only further the race to the bottom being waged by the low quality, low skilled vendors in ours and most areas.

If you're comfortable being in that race, you do so at your own risk.

 

[TimToad]

I would be real curious why this company did not use you Tim Toad. You do excellent work as you tell us, you are transparent with your dealings with customers, 40 plus years experience and a pillar of the community. Had to be the prices and a better deal from another local company.
Hopefully they also will do a lousy job as the first sign company and they will get back to you. I am sure you have given this much thought and will come to a conclusion though investigation where things went wrong on you not getting this job.
Ya can’t hit a homer every time you get up to bat.

We do excellent work "not as I tell anyone" but by the photographic proof of it and the thousands of fully satisfied customers who tell us that we do excellent work.

We'll see who ended up with the project at some point. We don't obsess over lost projects. I've got a folder full of quotes that for one reason or another, the client went elsewhere. We also have a bank account full of money from new clients who came to us after being unhappy with a never ending shortage of mediocre work and service from several of our nearest competitors.

Its part of any business and dwelling on it takes energy away from the piles of other projects we already have or are entertaining. Unless the winning bidder posts the work on their website or social media pages and we happen to come across it, we won't be spending much time fretting over it.

You're last sentence says it all.

 

[Gino]

Those could all be possibilities in other cases, but in THIS case not likely. The cow could also jump over the moon, but not likely.

The client has its own art department, provided mock ups of EXACTLY what was to be produced and was quite clear on the parameters, timeline and scope of the project. Even with its large volume of work, it wasn't that hard of a quote to put together.

I've lived, worked and negotiated on purchases in America my entire life and fully understand why you have to insult me and others and that you can't help yourself, but your last comment is out of bounds and negates anything else that makes sense you stated.

They didn't try to haggle with us, which is the only way your theory works. If I walk into a restaurant and ask for a menu before sitting down, does the host automatically assume I'm undecided ONLY because of the prices?

Do they follow me out the door and offer to drop the price?

We don't know why they chose someone else. Automatically assuming it had to be for lower prices is wrong and calling them up to grovel by lowering our prices after accurately quoting according to the system we have in place would be putting us at a disadvantage and only further the race to the bottom being waged by the low quality, low skilled vendors in ours and most areas.

If you're comfortable being in that race, you do so at your own risk.

That was no insult, but a complete observation of a vast amount of members on the many many times you comment on this very subject, the same way over and over and over, again. Nothing was outta bounds. You tell us you bid on this job, but lost and have no idea as to why. However, you can tell us all the reasons you should've gotten it. We get it, you're great..... and none of us knew that, until YOU told us so.

 

[ColorCrest]

There is a method of quoting (for the sake of brevity here) good, better, best product line items for those who don’t necessarily know their options or especially for those shopping price. If the prospect doesn’t even choose the lowest price option, that fact might be rather telling although sometimes things just don’t make sense for any reason.

(Thread is obviously off the rails.)

 

[TimToad]

There is a method of quoting (for the sake of brevity here) good, better, best product line items for those who don’t necessarily know their options or especially for those shopping price. If the prospect doesn’t even choose the lowest price option, that fact might be rather telling although sometimes things just don’t make sense for any reason.

(Thread is obviously off the rails.)

Except that in this case, the client knew exactly what they wanted in terms of quality, material options and durability expectations.

I agree that the thread has gone off the rails, but after making a simple observation and real life example about the need to NOT ignore human nature or less than logical reasons for why clients do what they do, we can thank this site's three most usual antagonists for being in the locomotive turning up the speed dial as the train enters a curve.

 

[Gino]

Yeah, we use that quite often. I believe it's called the 3 tier quoting system. Great point !!!

 

[TimToad]

There is a method of quoting (for the sake of brevity here) good, better, best product line items for those who don’t necessarily know their options or especially for those shopping price. If the prospect doesn’t even choose the lowest price option, that fact might be rather telling although sometimes things just don’t make sense for any reason.

(Thread is obviously off the rails.)

So a client comes to you with an interior graphics project that calls for metal faced, 1" thick dimensional foam letters stud mounted on textured walls, a few instances of diecut vinyl letters going on textured walls, 3'x4' clear acrylic panels with text on them and MBS standoffs and needing two cars and two vans wrapped to start with. Next year, they want the badly done full wraps on all dozen or more Transport vans they have plus a few new vehicles peeled and wrapped.

They know exactly what they want and last time I checked, except for brand choices, cast wrap material is pretty similar in price. So is the labor involved in removing the poorly executed vehicle wraps that generated the sales inquiry to start with as well as the installation of all the interior graphics and new wraps. These are specific products and services being quoted. You understand that right?

Where does your method account for good, best, and better in a scenario like that apply?

This is a waste of time.