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Client's email leaves me at a loss for words...

G

GypsyGraphics

New Member
Although it doesn't appear so from this long post.

Three days ago I received this email from Bob. Bob doesn't have a clear memory of how we came to work together; I created the corporate identities and collateral material for two software companies he was a partner in. Which is really beside the point, because years later, he hired me to essentially do the same for his wife Boopsie's new business.

I knew when he started off with the shmoosy BS, he was going to ask for something for free.

Happy New Year! I hope this finds you and your family well. It looks like your business is continuing to do well as I see your stuff everywhere and hear your company praises repeatedly. I remember back when we first worked with you on the website, the tradeshow booth, etc. (BTW – sorry Richard Head did what he did and gave credit for your work to someone else). Anyhow, you have come a long way and it is gratifying to see you being so successful out here. Congrats!

Listen, could you please send me all of Boopsie's files in a format that I can make basic change? Her businesses are just beginning to finally get some traction but she cannot afford to pay some yet for the high cost to make simple changes to her name. Address, etc. If there are substantive changes made I am happy to compensate you because you are Boopsie's graphic artist. However, for now can you please send me all of her images in a format that I can make the minor changes on?

Thank you,
Bob

I've thought of a few options, but I'm sure someone out there has a suggestion I haven't thought of yet.

1. I could go into a lengthily email, tell him all projects are in InDesign, which he doesn't have... and doesn't matter because I don't release native files. Could remind him that his invoices notes "all finale files provided in PDF format."

2. I could give him files with all text layers removed and saved as PDFs, and charge for my time to do so. although it would e considerable faster for me to just update the files for him.

3. I could offer to make the change, if as minor as he claims for no charge as long as I'm handling the printing.

Anyone have another suggestion? I'm also curious if anyone provides clients with native files... under what conditions and for what charge?
 
iSign

iSign

New Member
I'll start with the last question first..

..do I provide native files, under what conditions and for what charge? Normally not, unless they've already paid for a logo & lost their copy, or they have become such a valuable client that I weigh the risk of losing work against the benefit of fostering good will. Sometimes a fee enters that risk/benefit equation, sometimes not.

Although sign layouts probably do not get re-used as much as a good deal of graphic artist creations, I do get people asking for native files for sign layouts, and of course for layouts the client now considers their logo.

It's always been an awkward situation for me, and what little progress I've made to minimize that has come from discussions on this site.

The only fool proof way I've been inspired to strive for has to do with full disclosure of policy before the fact, which you seem to be doing on the bottom of your invoices (although I guess that may not really be "before the fact" at least it's before the potential dispute) For me, it is a rare enough occurrence, that I've not yet become comfortable with raising that issue at the onset.

The next closest approach to clarifying this at the onset is to simply remind my clients they are asking for my tools, not their property. When they hire me, they benefit from the tools I retain from past transactions. I would assure them that those tools will be here to assist them when they need my services.

Depending on the rapport with a client posing such a question, I might mention that a lapse in my creative control of a clients marketing could become a source of vulnerability, should my work be modified in a way not in keeping with my design style. In the end, I might put a price on a set of native files, or I might simply state that my current policy has served me well & is not subject to change.
 
BobM

BobM

New Member
iSign said:
The next closest approach to clarifying this at the onset is to simply remind my clients they are asking for my tools, not their property. When they hire me, they benefit from the tools I retain from past transactions. I would assure them that those tools will be here to assist them when they need my services.
Click to expand...

Doug hit it right on the head. Yours "tools" are needed to make the changes he is asking for. If in fact they are minor, you may choose to make a few changes at little or no cost hoping to retain a good "future" customer. When the changes become major, and I suspect the will, you will have set the ground work to be paid for working your "tools".

If he just wants "your" files to take elsewhere under the guise of minor changes, you've already lost him anyway.

I love Doug's "my tools, not their property".
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Typestries

Typestries

New Member
+1 for dougs Tools analogy! Thats great and I will use that in the future!

Or....
Rasterize the files into a bitmap and save as a jpg at 100 dpi and move on. If they ask questions just let them know that's the only format you are able to export to. Simple enough.
 
Rodi

Rodi

New Member
Figure out how much it would be worth to give your files away.Remember, they probably did not pay for fonts, so that is a cost, images too. Your design time. Also remember art in the graphics world has real world costs associated with it and often times just rides as part of the whole project. That said, if you are not getting the rest of the projects, charge him. You can bait him that if they use you you will give them x-amount of credit towards the work awarded to you, again the price of the art goes down as the price of the whole project goes up.
 
Marlene

Marlene

New Member
+2 for the tools

not having the money to pay for something doesn't mean you have to do something. the person is in business and being in business means having business expenses. if they can't afford what they need to do business, maybe a talk to their banker about a business loan or figure it out on their own. sounds heartless, but why should they involve you in their problems? what they are really asking is for you to give your work away, make no money for your labor because of poor planning on their part.
 
Bigdawg

Bigdawg

Just Me
When I did just graphic design - my invoice stated that the customer would receive any FINAL files. I did not specify which format and since most of the printers took hi-res pdf files, that's what I provided.

That's what I think you should give him. Tell him if he has a graphic program he should be able to work with these. Mention that you used InDesign to create them - and it only costs $700 (I don't know what it really costs) for him to buy that too... then the fonts should only run him a couple hundred more... then maybe Adobe Acrobat to provide the printer the files he'll need...

That's when I would offer to do the minor changes (anything requiring less than a half hours work) for free and keep handling the printing for him... it would be so much cheaper for him to go that route. :smile:
 
luggnut

luggnut

New Member
it also is possible he is just trying to get the files and take them somewhere else that will work for cheap? if he has the files he doesn't need you . he could get anyone with the printing equipment to do the work.
 
saktrnch

saktrnch

New Member
GypsyGraphics said:
Listen, could you please send me all of Boopsie's files in a format that I can make basic change? Her businesses are just beginning to finally get some traction but she cannot afford to pay some yet for the high cost to make simple changes to her name. Address, etc. If there are substantive changes made I am happy to compensate you because you are Boopsie's graphic artist. However, for now can you please send me all of her images in a format that I can make the minor changes on?
Click to expand...

So do I understand that Boopsie is finally making some money, so they are going to change her name and move her somewhere else, and have someone else rework the work you did for her?

I think to demonstrate you good will, you should also send some extra banner material, vinyl, laminate, and ink cartridges to help her along.
 
Arlo Kalon 2.0

Arlo Kalon 2.0

New Member
I said it months ago in another thread similar to this one. "No, I don't give away files I've created. They are my tools to do a job for you. I can't hire a carpenter to build an addition onto my house and ask him to leave me his hammer in case I want to add a few boards later on.". It's always worked for me. I once spent months digitizing intricate Celtic designs for an Irish trucker's 18 wheeler tractor. After applying all the graphics to his truck, he traded it in a few months later. He asked me to supply him all the files on a cd so he could get his next truck done "closer to home". I gave him the tools analogy, but he persisted. I finally put a price of $2,000 on it to release them. I was well compensated for their original creation, but we never discussed his ownership of it. He offered me $200 and I hung up on him. He never called back.
 
Bigdawg

Bigdawg

Just Me
THREAD PIRATE

Arlo... Didn't you post those designs a long time back? If I remember... that was some work to begin with...
 
Marlene

Marlene

New Member
"No, I don't give away files I've created. They are my tools to do a job for you. I can't hire a carpenter to build an addition onto my house and ask him to leave me his hammer in case I want to add a few boards later on.".
Click to expand...

mind if I use that the next time I need to explain the whys to a customer? that has to be the clearest example I have ever seen that explains it all.
 
Tim Aucoin

Tim Aucoin

New Member
Coming form the offset print industry, I get requests for files a lot! Each request is treated differently, depending on who it is and where they want their files sent. Firstly, we charge GOOD money to create the files, so technically, the client "owns" their own files... to a point. They didn't pay me for their font in every sense of the matter, so whenever I get a request for a file, and I know they are going to a competitor, their file get's converted to curves, and it is saved in the LATEST version of the software whether it be Illustrator or InDesign, etc...

You see, I've found that more times than not, the customer is going to "try" another printer strictly due to price. 99% of the time, the printer they are going to is a ma & pa shop that doesn't spend too much money (if any) on legitimate software, so they likely won't have the latest versions of the high-end programs. Usually, a month or two later, the customer comes back to us for their next order... and again, depending on who it is, we gladly take back their business, with a slight price increase of course!!

After 25+ years in this business, I've learned to trust my gut when it comes to stuff like this. I can generally tell a customers' motives/reasons for asking for their original files and handle it accordingly.... Then again, to be honest, sometimes it depends on my mood that day!!! :ROFLMAO:
 
Rick

Rick

Certified Enneadecagon Designer
First I'm thinking you need a contract, if you have one already it should mention source files. As Doug mentions in his post, all terms should be mentioned before, adding that ambiguous .pdf statement is probably too vague for most people.

Kinda hard to give source files especially if stock art and clip art is involved as most are not transferable, so you have an out if that is the case. The other is the "tools" aspect, they can buy the tools, but I have read that they sell for the cost of the stock images/clipart in their name + 2- 3 times the files worth.

On contracts, here are a couple of links....

http://jefffisherlogomotives.blogspot.com/2008/07/signing-on-dotted-line.html

http://www.aiga.org/content.cfm/standard-agreement
http://www.aiga.org/resources/content/3/5/9/7/documents/aiga_9standard_agreement_07.pdf

some of this may be overkill on small projects, but there are somethings that must be put in writing to clear any misunderstandings.
 
Dice

Dice

New Member
Design files were presented in PDF? You can change PDF files guys :)

"Hey Bob good to hear from you! I supply all of my clients with final PDF files. If you have the proper design software you can make changes to them using InDesign, Illustrator or Acrobat Pro. I cannot provide a format in other format (Excel, Word, Etc) just isn't possible. I would be happy to make those changes for you at a discount. For $x I'll get those changes right out to you."
 
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