Cloud systems are traps..

[Kevin-shopVOX]

Any of you bank online in any form or fashion? Check balances, buy online etc.?

 

[gnemmas]

Yes, most banks do have online presence for our and their convenience( more for their savings, in my opinion.) They do go down from time to time, and I can always go to their branches.

Would you use a Cloud Only bank? No No No..

 

[OldPaint]

One could argue that your current system is far less secure than a cloud system will be. We're in the infancy stages of cloud computing. I wish I had a link to a MIT article about this very topic. It was about the encryption methods they're working on.

YOU REALLY BELIEVE THIS????
YOU dont live in the real world. no sooner these "encryptions" come on the product, their is a multitude of people WORKING HOW TO UN-ENCRYPT IT)))))))
as for the CLOUD....... i aint buyin nothing that has it as a way to access the programs. MORE PEOPLE DONT BUY IT...they will dump it!!!!!
as for you who have to have the latest greatest programs..........WHY? YOU was doin this work BEFORE THE CLOUD.........so how does this crap make your work easier, faster, more cost effective??? IT DONT!!!!!
YOU ARE BEING SOLD A SYSTEM ......FOR THEM TO MAKE MORE PROFIT. disguised as an upgrade to a program you have been using for years. kinda dumb to waste money to supposedly work simpler.
BUT THIS IS WHERE YOUR HEAD IS AT....and you just become another follower. IF PEOPLE DONT BUY INTO IT... do you think ADOBE/FLEXI will continue using it???? YOU ARE IN CHARGE.... you buy it, they will take your money. if it dont sell..........the cloud will go away. then we can have blue skies))))

 

[S11930]

i think you are missing a very important point

cloud technology is important for one simple reason. If you use any one of the many backup cloud programs on a regular basis with automatic backup your designs and your work are available no matter where you are. If you look at the midwest with the tornadoes and the hurricanes along the east coast you realize that its an insurance policy in your past work and the ability to work in the future.

 

[Bigcat_hunter]

I tried the google cloud for a while and was disappointed to find out that it converts your images to jpg etc if they are a photoshop file when you download them. It defeated the whole point of having a back-up of your files. They weren't editable. Then to top it off, I tried to cancel the account as they were taking a monthly fee. Even after I closed the account they continued to take funds from my account. There was no way to contact them to resolve this. I had to close my bank account. Screw google.

 

[SightLine]

Any of you bank online in any form or fashion? Check balances, buy online etc.?

Of course. Most do. I can also drive 1 mile down the road and get my money if the internet is down. Doing some business online and having your business critically dependent on some online thing are far different unrelated scenarios. If we lose internet access, I can drive to any store locally and buy just about anything I might need. If the internet is down and we need to order vinyl, we can simply call Grimco and order it. If the internet is down and I need to pull some older job info on some specific client, I simply open our CRM app and get what I need. Granted, I do take things quite a bit further than most small shops do. Our data is on our servers (yes, Windows Server 2008 clustered), which run SQL as well as Exchange 2010 and several other key business apps. Of course I have Cisco's VPN solution configured for remote access and even have Exchange OWA published in a highly secure manner allowing us access to our email remotely and even on tablets. The data itself is on our 36 drive Xyratex SAN, fully mirrored with a weekly offsite backup (at home). We have everything on 2 6kV Leibert UPS's for battery backup (about to add another 8kV). Switches are Extreme Networks Summit, Cisco router, Cisco AP's, and an enterprise grade Cisco ASA firewall. I'm absolutely 100% confident that my careful and considerate attention to fault tolerance and security of our data is every bit as secure and likely considerably moreso than what you cloud companies implement to secure everyone else's data. Also, our data is in a very well documented and easily ported SQL database. If I ever feel the need to move it to something else, easy as pie. If I go bankrupt, I still have my data. If the internet goes down like during these crazy storms we are getting right now, no problem, the data is right over there in the server room. If you go bankrupt (I truly hope you don't, I have no ill will) what happens to your customers data? If it's a court forced bankruptcy, God only knows, might be sold to the highest bidder, might just get deleted.

Years ago I was a senior net admin for a rather decent sized company, Inacom. Inacom was at the time the worlds largest support and seller of PC's to major corporations and government. We knew things were bad, Compaq was offering a buyout, and a court data was scheduled for a chapter 11 bankruptcy hearing. Everything, everything, media, internal communications, you name it, said no worries. We will get the reorganization filed and restructure some and come out better in the long run. This was on a Friday. At around 1:00pm all employees, myself included got an email to call into a company toll free number asap for info on the hearing. Upon calling in, it was a message from a girl sounding quite rushed. She basically informed us that the judge said no way and ordered immediate Chapter 7. Court appointed security personnel was being immediately dispatched to all company locations to secure the assets and facilities. She said, something about the companies self insurance disqualifies us for Cobra and that all 6000ish employees were immediately terminated and to immediately gather all personal assets and prepare to vacate any company premises. Literally less than 2 hours later, the web site went offline, email stopped working, etc. The court security had went to the headquarters and literally just shut everything off. Now, my particular group, we were the network and desktop support for a major power company. That put them in a bit of a panic, the power utility execs had an emergency meeting and met with our team and essentially offered to bankroll us at our current pay rates until further notice if we would agree to continue to provide the support we did.

Point of the story, I do not care what any of you say. Trusting 100% the life of your company in some other company is a bad idea. A LOT of companies, particularly tech companies, go under. Very often it is far from graceful and quite painful for their customers. I know if I fail, it's on me. If you fail, I'm just SOL? No, I don't think so.

cloud technology is important for one simple reason. If you use any one of the many backup cloud programs on a regular basis with automatic backup your designs and your work are available no matter where you are. If you look at the midwest with the tornadoes and the hurricanes along the east coast you realize that its an insurance policy in your past work and the ability to work in the future.

or.... you could invest that same money over time into your own business and proper backups (rotated with an offsite copy) adding additional value to your company instead of someone elses....

 

[GAC05]

I think we all know...

 

[OldPaint]

cloud technology is important for one simple reason. If you use any one of the many backup cloud programs on a regular basis with automatic backup your designs and your work are available no matter where you are. If you look at the midwest with the tornadoes and the hurricanes along the east coast you realize that its an insurance policy in your past work and the ability to work in the future.

IF......you cant prepare and keep your own DESIGNS/GRAPICS/FILES backed up and being accessible when/WHERE YOU NEED THEM....and pass this responsibility to something as ethereal as THE CLOUD.... YOU......need to re think what your design/graphic work is worth..or you just that lazy?

 

[HulkSmash]

I use cloud all day all night. No issues. I have no worries of my building burning down and me losing all my data.
Banks have been using clouds for ages, same with all CC companies and other alike.

now that it is more public and being used more for personal things.. people are freaking out.
Yes it can be hacked. So can your home computer, your office computer, and your laptops.

Everything we cloud is also backed up.

Google Drive is awesome.. We pay for 6 TB. If it gets hacked what do i lose..?
old customer designs and what not.. oh no....

 

[Techman]

The point is,, not whether it is viable or not. The point is that its a waste of money and resources. It entraps users and is in fact just a marketing ploy. Cloud is just a word used to charge big bucks for what used to be FREE. And then some software companies are using the term CLOUD as a euphemism to hide the real agenda. And that agenda is a subscription system to fleece us all. There will be creeping price increases. One day the tipping point will be reached and some will be forced off the cloud. ITs just a fact of the world.

As for tornadoes etc...

cloud technology is important for one simple reason. If you use any one of the many backup cloud programs on a regular basis with automatic backup your designs and your work are available no matter where you are. If you look at the midwest with the tornadoes and the hurricanes along the east coast you realize that its an insurance policy in your past work and the ability to work in the future.

Pure bogus non issue and misdirected at best..
I and some hundreds of other companies lived through katrina and none of us had cloud backup. We all had our own backups and were back in business as soon as the wait for POWER and the PHONE or cable systems had a dial tone. If we depended upon a cloud backup we would ALL be down for extra days AFTER the power came back on and a phone system was back. No one will get back online from a CLOUD backup for many days.

 

[round man]

What alot of people don't realize is cloud computing involves each user having their own virtual server,...these servers when in the process of booting and shutting down have inherent problems with data being left behind in memory on the actual servers that run the virtual software and the base module files for each virtual server (files where an individual's data is stored)are not that secure,...I was taught in tech school very recently about the security flaws with cloud computing and to avoid it for those actual flaws,...

 

[choucove]

Cloud computing seems to mainly advertise a small recurring subscription fee over a large one-time purchase fee. This attracts new customers, because they can afford to do a small fee every once in a while compared to a large up-front cost. However, this actually means more money for the software developer/provider, and greater overall value for their company. And unfortunately, I believe the side effect of this will really become laziness. After all, if they have customers paying a monthly or annual fee, why would they need to really work on developing new and innovative versions to release to get customers to purchase? It will also mean a lack in quality control, as any updates that are released will probably not be subjected to the same level of testing and research as a full-release stand-alone product because, "Oh we can just fix that in the next patch" will become the key phrase to buy them time and try and dissuade upset customers.

All in all, I believe that cloud computing has its applications. For instance, I definitely recommend to people to use a web-based email over older POP3 email set up in old version of Outlook or Outlook Express for so many reasons. But there are so many ways that cloud computing is being put to use that really makes me wonder. While there are POSSIBILITIES for improvements with this model, unfortunately it is not being fulfilled properly and mainly used as a way to get more money.

 

[round man]

I foresee a business model very similar to cellular phone sales model,..where they sucker you in with a cheap service ,then as you become accustom to it and increase your usage they start tacking on surcharges, to where that nominal monthly fee becomes outrageously more expensive and lucrative to the cloud provider and the consumer in need of the service gets fleeced by greedy corporations,....why do you think most of the new tablets and smartphones do not have very large storage capacities???? it isn't like we don't have the technology to add larger storage capacity to those devices,...

 

[Kevin-shopVOX]

Cloud computing seems to mainly advertise a small recurring subscription fee over a large one-time purchase fee. This attracts new customers, because they can afford to do a small fee every once in a while compared to a large up-front cost. However, this actually means more money for the software developer/provider, and greater overall value for their company. And unfortunately, I believe the side effect of this will really become laziness. After all, if they have customers paying a monthly or annual fee, why would they need to really work on developing new and innovative versions to release to get customers to purchase?

Yes the monthly fee allows for greater market exposure and affordability to the consumer. Instead of dumping $20k for an application you can protect that cash flow and budget the SaaS into your business overhead and sell your products accordingly. Any service like this is essentially an utility like electric. It is part of your overhead because you use it to run your business. (Assuming of course we are talking about services you'd use for business which also makes that service tax deductible.) That cash in hand could have been used for any other purposes instead of on software. Best part is if you don't need it or even like it you can get rid of it all while saving all that cash you didn't have to spend up front on it. I know I've met many owners who have purchased very expensive stand alone applications only to see it gather dust. Guess who is laughing all the way to the bank in that scenario?

I can see your point on how it may actually breed a lazy company but being on this end of it I actually think it does the opposite. I personally believe the SaaS provider has to work harder than company selling stand alone applications. Reason being is a SaaS provider has to earn their money every month. Loyalty is the only way this model works. The only way you can maintain customer loyalty is with excellent customer service as well as constant product progression and innovation. I can't imagine a user base that willingly pays every month continue to willingly do so without a constantly improving platform. I'd say the demand is even greater and less patient as well. A non SaaS software provider can shrug their shoulders and say "we've already got your money..thanks. We'll up date it when we get to it (years) and then charge you an arm and a leg to have it. Oh and then we'll stop supporting it after 6 months of the updates release. Oh then we'll stop talking to you until you pay us for the update. Have a good day."

In whatever you (and I mean you as in anyone not you choucove specifically just to be clear) do, be cautious and responsible with what you do online or even face to face. Practice safe web habits like maybe changing your passwords once in while or dont' use the same one everywhere. You certainly shouldn't jump on every SaaS bandwagon but we certainly shouldn't say that these are scams as they are far from that. Sure the model is different but it benefits both parties. Pricing's range from free to OMG. Remember that pricing can also go down so be a bit more of an optimist. Ultimately however only choose services that fill voids or solve problems, help you be more organized/efficient etc. Don't commit to long term contracts. Make sure you can call or speak with a rep. Make sure you back up your data into something you can use. Just be smart individuals and make sound decisions.

As for the no internet deal. Yes it does go out. I know I can count on one hand how many times my internet went out last year. It is essentially a non-issue. For the times it did it was short-lived. I have a cell phone that I can use in those scenarios. If it was out for long period of times in a centralized area...such as your shop. I'm pretty sure the resourceful folks will simply get access somewhere else and print stuff out if needed in conjunction with your phone. Should be sufficient. For long periods of time more than likely you have something else to worry about such as a natural disaster. Yes as soon a power comes back on you may not have internet, but I'd be willing to bet most of you could still run your shop in that state of frenzy to either make emergency signs or deal with orders in house, even if you were working off of memory. Anyone think not? Think their shop would actually come to a stand still? Meaning NO ONE can get anything done..nada..zip..until your internet comes back on? I'd be amazed if anyone, jokes aside, says yes. No one should really be screaming that the sky is falling because you lose internet. We all know it's few and far between, temporary and we don't twiddle our thumbs when it happens.

The cloud, internet, SaaS, Web 2.0 Biz, whatever you call it is here to stay. That is a fact and it is a worldwide wave of new business practices and methods. It is not a fad.

 

[choucove]

Yes the monthly fee allows for greater market exposure and affordability to the consumer. Instead of dumping $20k for an application you can protect that cash flow and budget the SaaS into your business overhead and sell your products accordingly. Any service like this is essentially an utility like electric. It is part of your overhead because you use it to run your business. (Assuming of course we are talking about services you'd use for business which also makes that service tax deductible.) That cash in hand could have been used for any other purposes instead of on software. Best part is if you don't need it or even like it you can get rid of it all while saving all that cash you didn't have to spend up front on it. I know I've met many owners who have purchased very expensive stand alone applications only to see it gather dust. Guess who is laughing all the way to the bank in that scenario?

I can see your point on how it may actually breed a lazy company but being on this end of it I actually think it does the opposite. I personally believe the SaaS provider has to work harder than company selling stand alone applications. Reason being is a SaaS provider has to earn their money every month. Loyalty is the only way this model works. The only way you can maintain customer loyalty is with excellent customer service as well as constant product progression and innovation. I can't imagine a user base that willingly pays every month continue to willingly do so without a constantly improving platform. I'd say the demand is even greater and less patient as well. A non SaaS software provider can shrug their shoulders and say "we've already got your money..thanks. We'll up date it when we get to it (years) and then charge you an arm and a leg to have it. Oh and then we'll stop supporting it after 6 months of the updates release. Oh then we'll stop talking to you until you pay us for the update. Have a good day."

In whatever you (and I mean you as in anyone not you choucove specifically just to be clear) do, be cautious and responsible with what you do online or even face to face. Practice safe web habits like maybe changing your passwords once in while or dont' use the same one everywhere. You certainly shouldn't jump on every SaaS bandwagon but we certainly shouldn't say that these are scams as they are far from that. Sure the model is different but it benefits both parties. Pricing's range from free to OMG. Remember that pricing can also go down so be a bit more of an optimist. Ultimately however only choose services that fill voids or solve problems, help you be more organized/efficient etc. Don't commit to long term contracts. Make sure you can call or speak with a rep. Make sure you back up your data into something you can use. Just be smart individuals and make sound decisions.

As for the no internet deal. Yes it does go out. I know I can count on one hand how many times my internet went out last year. It is essentially a non-issue. For the times it did it was short-lived. I have a cell phone that I can use in those scenarios. If it was out for long period of times in a centralized area...such as your shop. I'm pretty sure the resourceful folks will simply get access somewhere else and print stuff out if needed in conjunction with your phone. Should be sufficient. For long periods of time more than likely you have something else to worry about such as a natural disaster. Yes as soon a power comes back on you may not have internet, but I'd be willing to bet most of you could still run your shop in that state of frenzy to either make emergency signs or deal with orders in house, even if you were working off of memory. Anyone think not? Think their shop would actually come to a stand still? Meaning NO ONE can get anything done..nada..zip..until your internet comes back on? I'd be amazed if anyone, jokes aside, says yes. No one should really be screaming that the sky is falling because you lose internet. We all know it's few and far between, temporary and we don't twiddle our thumbs when it happens.

The cloud, internet, SaaS, Web 2.0 Biz, whatever you call it is here to stay. That is a fact and it is a worldwide wave of new business practices and methods. It is not a fad.

Kevin has a lot of really good information in this post too that I think everyone needs to consider as well. Please, understand that not all cloud solutions are the same, so not all are going to have inherent issues or difficulties, not all are going to be a trap. One thing that Kevin really pointed out is that you don't have to have a long-term commitment with cloud solutions if you don't like the product.

Unfortunately, sometimes there's just no other alternative. It would be really nice to find software becoming available in either forms, as a cloud-based content or single license local installation. For example, I really dislike the idea of Microsoft Office 365 which requires that you have a network connection. However, I really like that you can cover multiple computers with a single annual or even monthly subscription. I've noticed in discussing Microsoft Office licensing with my customers that they can be very hesitant to spend between $150 and $400 to license a single computer with Office 2013 (depending on the version) but can instead license ALL of their home or small office computers with ALL of the Office products for $100 a year.

I think the big thing that gets questionable is the storage of all of your data online, which is not what ALL cloud solutions are about. That's just off-site backup. Yes, there are inherent risks to this (which of course have been named and addressed multiple times for years online) but just the same there are risks to small offices storing their stuff on-site without doing backups. Personally I don't mess with online data storage much because around here we just don't have the internet speeds to be able to make it even feasible.