Collecting Final Payment

[SignStudent]

I always get a 50% deposit up front but struggle deciding when to collect the other half on certain jobs. Specifically, any time I have to go install something or ship something.

Do you all make sure to get payment before you go out to install or ship something? Do you have problems with people refusing to pay before they have seen the completed work?

 

[J Hill Designs]

I rarely if ever collect at time of install - it just gets invoiced upon completion (less deposit if applicable)

 

[Gino]

It could be different, if I was actually doing the installation portion, which on occasion, I do..... but I wouldn't make our people responsible for collecting money. That is not part of their job description, unless the customer sets it up prior to our showing up.

Get your 50% deposit up front and have written in the opening document/quote, which they must sign and date, how and when you will expect the final payment. This signature, will dictate they did know, in fact, what was expected. Failure for them to do so in a timely manner, will further up their costs, if you also add in the terms and penalties for tardy payment.

Shipping...... ?? Have it paid in full before shipping.

 

[Techman]

get the square and get paid.
Invoice them via the square the instant the job is done. They will know the work is finished.
OR take the swiper with you and ask for check when you walk in to the place.
If they say they don't have a check ready then whip out the square and ask for a credit card.
If they put you off just leave. Do not take the work off yer truck until you have your cash.

See, easy peasy.

 

[Gino]

Just thought of this.........................

Had a guy a few weeks ago, bought his channel letters on ebay. He asked me for a quote to hang them and said he'd have his electrician hook the whole thing up. Gave him a quote and told him I would collect the whole amount when I was finished with my part. Day came, put the stuff up and he was $250 short, because of something he didn't expect, but he said I'll have it to ya tomorrow. I looked at him and winked and said.... tomorrow, it is. Next morning came and nothing, but around lunch, he came in with 4 or 5 boxes of pizza for us and the final payment.

Sometimes, things work out just fine. This kinda deal has happened more times than not. Those, spoiling it for others, happen, but I generally don't let it bother me........ too much. ​

 

[BIG EASY DOES IT]

Everything in writing before.

I wonder has anyone put a repo clause in their contracts. Something like if everything is not paid by xdate then the installer has the ability to come and repo whatever was installed.

 

[BIG EASY DOES IT]

Maybe send them a letter saying your monument sign is scheduled for demolition on blah blah blah date. If payments are not made in the appropriate time then demolition will continue.

 

[Gino]

Everything in writing before.

I wonder has anyone put a repo clause in their contracts. Something like if everything is not paid by xdate then the installer has the ability to come and repo whatever was installed.

Technically no.

What most people don't understand is that there are two transaction taking place. Vehicular repo is completely different from a sign not being paid.

Anyway, down here in the lower 48, it is your transaction and your deal to get deposits, draws and final payments in any transaction. Failure on your part to do so, does not make it legal to go on private property and take down something, which no longer belongs to you. You put it up in good faith, but guessed, figured or calculated wrong for balances. Because you failed to collect the money from your contract/paperwork is something you did wrong. However, it does not give you any justification for taking something back even though said item are not paid for in final. Those are two entirely different laws. One is to protect you, while one will work against you.

Principles and other emotional attachment to these signs is all it is. Once you affix them to a wall or vehicle, they are no longer yours. They belong to someone who just swindled you out of payment.

Let me ask you this...... if someone didn't pay for a television, can you go in their house and take it out ??

 

[BIG EASY DOES IT]

I sign stuff all the time that says it is my responsibility to get it paid. Not the responsibility of the company to seek payment. And if I don't pay there are fines, shut off utilities and etc. Why not say it is your responsibility to pay the invoice in full by the said date. If it is not paid this is what will happen.

 

[BIG EASY DOES IT]

What if you put in the contract that you will be using the new sign as collateral for the payment and if installed and not paid on time collateral is a legal item you can repossess.

 

[Gino]

It's a shame, but many people today really try to beat the system or a small business person outta food and rent, by trying to screw them. Not paying your balance on anything from a sign to a vacuum cleaner is just pure arrogance. However, it is becoming more and more commonplace. They all use the same kinda reasoning.... you're gonna get paid. Yeah, but when ??

It's tough, but you have to spell it out up front, but you can't repossess anything, because technically you don't have the ability to do it legally. Even if you did, you can't take the laws into your own hands and start demanding something, just because they broke the contract. It was your contract and you basically allowed them to break the rules, so you are as guilty of breaking your own contract as they are.

I would venture to say that, if you are experiencing this more than once or twice a year, you should either look at what you might be doing wrong, such as a quote or contract written incorrectly.... or is your work sub-par ?? If your work is satisfactory and your contract is strong, then stop giving out credit and get paid upon pick up or before said sign is installed. You're not set up as a lending institution, so don't pretend to be one which has some kinda collection agency up your sleeve.

 

[Rick]

In California,

A licensed sign contractor has 2 avenues of recourse for non-payment.

A lein, and/or lawsuit.

On repossessing, I have heard of some contractors adding that
to a contract, but from what I understand, you have to have the
client initial that part as an acknowledgment, I don't know of the
legality of it.

The only time a sign contractor can remove a sign from the property
is if the job/contract is still in place... You wouldn't remove it for non
payment, you would if you think the install was not to code or
specifications (I've done it, got arrested, but released when
the police found I was legally allowed to be on site) -

If you are a non-licensed sign contractor, not only do they not have
to pay you the rest, then can get their deposit back.

 

[TimToad]

get the square and get paid.
Invoice them via the square the instant the job is done. They will know the work is finished.
OR take the swiper with you and ask for check when you walk in to the place.
If they say they don't have a check ready then whip out the square and ask for a credit card.
If they put you off just leave. Do not take the work off yer truck until you have your cash.

See, easy peasy.

Bookkeepers and Accounts Payable depts. for small, medium and large just love guys like you.

I acknowledge that in a perfect world, every customer would be prepared and ready to pay instantly when we are done, but most companies have a process that must be adhered to. Do you pay for EVERYTHING you purchase for your business the instant its obtained?

Cash flow is vitally important, but maintaining good ongoing working relationships with customers is equally as important. You can't build an enduring customer base if they perceive you only care about getting paid immediately and will hold their work hostage until they pay.

I find that most companies if prodded a little can get a check cut, but the reality is that most Americans are a little uncomfortable cutting checks for things they haven't seen the finished product of. I don't think its that we're all that distrusting as a people, but its always been part of the way of doing business. Bigger companies that have terms and process their accounts payable once a month will rarely deviate from their process.

You can choose to accept those terms or push people too hard and find them being one time customers only. After all, signs aren't exactly a critical need like HVAC or plumbing repairs.

I'm not sure if its a small town thing where those of you projecting this really hard line on this subject are the only shop in town, but in my town of 28,000 there are at least four brick and mortar sign companies. I push any customer too hard and my competitors get them the next time they need something. And they are all too happy to wrestle away any customers of mine they can.

 

[SignManiac]

Everything in writing before.

I wonder has anyone put a repo clause in their contracts. Something like if everything is not paid by xdate then the installer has the ability to come and repo whatever was installed.

I just added one to mine drafted by our attorney. They sign it then you can take it back whether attached to real property or not. If they object and won't sign, I won't do their work.

As for collecting balance. Invoice states due on completion. If it's a long standing client on net 30, I don't worry. If it's a new customer and I get that uneasy feeling that comes with a lifetime of experience. I tell them I expect a check to waiting when I deliver or the install is finished. You only get what you ask for in life. And that goes for pricing too.

 

[signed off]

About 3 years ago we started with all jobs are COD anything above $500 - 50% in advance balance due on completion ( we explain that 3rd party install portion requires 100% payment)
we only give 30 day to clients with an active credit card on file, at 30 days the card is charged, copy of payment is faxed. We only lost one client when we went that route but low and behold they have now come back and agree to the above terms. I was tired of being everyone else's bank for 30/60+ days

 

[Techman]

Don't be afraid to ask to get paid. All the old days of waiting to let the accounts payable office process work are leaving the arena.

Of course there are a few large corporate accounts that need a few days for the bookeeper to cut a check. But those cases are fewer today than just a couple years ago. Those special cases are evaluated on a case by case basis. Yes, a branch office needs corporate approval but most of their managers now a day have a credit card with standing approval for items under $2000. But for the most part we deal directly with the decision makers. most of us do not live in a fantasy world where every client is so big and so important they need to put payment off for 30 days.

And yes. I pay every thing when I get it. I have No debt. I have no 30 day net charge accounts. I have no revolving accounts. I could close tomorrow and be done with it. And yes I think about retiring every day.

 

[neil_se]

Our accounts have decreased dramatically over the past few years since implementing the same payment policy. I've just written a new policy to combat the same problem you describe as we had a series of customers who were balance on completion but we're still waiting on final payment months later. In reality we just weren't being clear with our customers what our expectation was and politely asking for payment immediately upon completion. Now I'm asking our reception/admin to chase payment much earlier, rather than leaving it up to accounts.

Here's our policy I've just written, feel free to use/revise/ignore.

___________________________________________

PAYMENT COLLECTION POLICY

For internal use only
Effective 27/1/15

Account Types

• Non-Account customers​

<$500+GST = Pre-payment required​

>$500+GST = 50% deposit / 50% upon completion​

Payment on completion for customers with good payment history (approval required)​

• 30 Days Credit Account upon application for long-term customers with established trading history, averaging $1500 spend per quarter​

• Exceptions to be approved by [owners]

​

Collection Process

• Account customers​

- Accounts to email statements at 30 days​

- Review outstanding debtors at 45 days, accounts to follow up by phone​

- If payment not received by 60 days, Stop Supply of further signage​

- If consistently late, consider removing Credit Account privilege​

• Non-Account customers​

Posted or delivered: Payment before release/postage of goods​

Collected: Payment before release of goods​

Installed: At time of booking, ask who is responsible for balance payment and how that payment will be made. Explain our process for that payment type.​

- For direct deposit, email invoice upon completion and ask that they email a remittance advice/transfer receipt so accounts can match up payments.​

- For credit card, upon completion call person responsible for paying and process credit card over the phone (do not store card numbers for security reasons).​

- If non-payment, admin to follow up on days 3 & 5 (+ day 1 for credit card). Escalate to salesperson on day 7+.​

• Goods remain the property of Signs On Time until paid in full. For long-term non-payment consider repossessing goods until payment is received, or sending letter from solicitor.
​

___________________________________________

By letting the customer know at the time of the booking that you will be chasing payment immediately afterwards, there's no excuses on their part and it doesn't come across as rude or pushy. The other customer type I've identified since writing this document is the larger corporates who are payment COD, but the person you're dealing with isn't the one who can make payment. In that case we'll give them a 7 day account (which is pretty wishful in many cases as they still won't pay until EOM, but it's worth trying).

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Principles and other emotional attachment to these signs is all it is. Once you affix them to a wall or vehicle, they are no longer yours. They belong to someone who just swindled you out of payment.

It depends on if "your" client actually owns the wall or vehicle. If they just lease one or both, it's actually the property of the person that owns said wall and/or vehicle. Which may not be the same person that just swindled you.



With regard to repos, typically clauses like that do require an extra initial and at least in the jurisdictions that I have dealt with, that language in the contract has to be explicitly clear that you are talking about a repo. You can't use colorful language like "emergency repairs" etc. That will void that part of the contract.

Also, to my knowledge using payment from one transaction to payoff a separate transaction is not good either. Especially if it isn't agreed to by both parties. Re purposing funds like that, usually isn't a good thing.



Rather or not you can or will get away with doing one or all of these things is something else.

 

[visual800]

On small jobs ($1000 or less) we turn in an invoice after everyone is satisfied.

On larger jobs 50% down and we invoice when client is satisfied. If not paid in 2 months after that we will repo. We will do it without warning. I will NOT reinstall until payment is received. After payment is recived I will put back up at my leisure.

I have nothing in my contracts or proposals about repos. you dont pay I will take it. and let me tell you after you remove someones sign they WILL be calling you very quickly after that. Repo is cheap and very effective

 

[Gino]

You could be correct on that, but I doubt it. Whether you rent, own or whatever, you usually have complete control over the areas you are paying rent on, unless you are doing something illegal, against your landlord's wishes or purposely causing harm. People just going in and taking things down without permission or under the guises of some fake reasons are just playing with trouble. I know some here do it, but like anything else, that doesn't make it understandably Okay. Suddenly, two wrongs make a right ??

The fact still remains, if you are too clumsy or incompetent to collect what's due you, if you didn't write you paperwork correctly or clearly enough, if you think becoming a thug and bullying someone into payment is the right thing to do...... go for it.


There is a it difference between MAY and CAN. Of course you can go take them down or anything else you want, but may you ??

 

[WildWestDesigns]

You could be correct on that, but I doubt it.

If it is permanently affixed to the property itself, it is considered apart of the property.

If you bolt on those signs, it's a part of the property of the building.

If it put on a 5th wheel or gooseneck hitch (not the same thing, although some people think that they are) in a bed of a truck you are leasing, they go with the truck.

 

[visual800]

You could be correct on that, but I doubt it. Whether you rent, own or whatever, you usually have complete control over the areas you are paying rent on, unless you are doing something illegal, against your landlord's wishes or purposely causing harm. People just going in and taking things down without permission or under the guises of some fake reasons are just playing with trouble. I know some here do it, but like anything else, that doesn't make it understandably Okay. Suddenly, two wrongs make a right ??

The fact still remains, if you are too clumsy or incompetent to collect what's due you, if you didn't write you paperwork correctly or clearly enough, if you think becoming a thug and bullying someone into payment is the right thing to do...... go for it.


There is a it difference between MAY and CAN. Of course you can go take them down or anything else you want, but may you ??

I dont call it bullying, I call it payment initiative. Once humans have something their intentions change. Its few and far between but for 20 some odd years it is the most effective way to get paid on a slacker