Collecting Final Payment

[Gino]

If it is permanently affixed to the property itself, it is considered apart of the property.

That's what I've been saying all along. Ownership vs renter means nada unless you are doing one of the 3 things I mentioned earlier. The sign belongs to whomever the wall belongs to, while a renter has full use of it during his/her occupancy period.

 

[visual800]

That's what I've been saying all along. Ownership vs renter means nada unless you are doing one of the 3 things I mentioned earlier. The sign belongs to whomever the wall belongs to, while a renter has full use of it during his/her occupancy period.

I dont consider this being common sense. If I do a sign and its not been paid for it is MINE! bolted, screwed glued, I dont care. Im not a rebel nor a thug but I will not tolerate not being paid for something. Belive me I go thru lots of contact calls and emails to establish payment and when it gets to the point of being ignored (as it will happen) thats when i decide to take action. When you remove a sign you do not have to contact them and let them know. they WILL, magically, start contacting you again. And time and time again its the person that has been ignoring you and they always place blame on others.

You may agree or disagree but to date this is the most effective way of collecting when clinets show they have lost interest

 

[Gino]

I dont call it bullying, I call it payment initiative. Once humans have something their intentions change. Its few and far between but for 20 some odd years it is the most effective way to get paid on a slacker

While there are certain statements and conditions set up here for s101 when entering this place, things you say could be used as gospel...... and so, things Iike this is irresponsible to say in the least. While you call it what you like, it is still illegal. You ask any lawyer, judge or person with common business sense and they'll tell you the same. If it works for you..... good. I've thought about doing it and did it some years ago. The cops were there so fast protecting this deadbeats rights and ready to run me into jail for all kindsa BS sh!t. I could see the cops in our dust. That's when I decided to check this out, as I didn't wanna be swindled by a crook ever again. I did rather extensive research and while around here its law, I'm sure it's the same down your way and out to the west coast.

When using this method of collection, just e careful, as you might land in jail quickly.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

That's what I've been saying all along. Ownership vs renter means nada unless you are doing one of the 3 things I mentioned earlier. The sign belongs to whomever the wall belongs to, while a renter has full use of it during his/her occupancy period.

What threw me off was this:

Principles and other emotional attachment to these signs is all it is. Once you affix them to a wall or vehicle, they are no longer yours. They belong to someone who just swindled you out of payment.

If it's permanately affixed to something that they don't own, but are using for a time, it belongs to the person that owns the building or vehicle, technically speaking that may or may not be the person that actually commissioned you to do the job.

 

[Gino]

I dont consider this being common sense. If I do a sign and its not been paid for it is MINE! bolted, screwed glued, I dont care. Im not a rebel nor a thug but I will not tolerate not being paid for something. Belive me I go thru lots of contact calls and emails to establish payment and when it gets to the point of being ignored (as it will happen) thats when i decide to take action. When you remove a sign you do not have to contact them and let them know. they WILL, magically, start contacting you again. And time and time again its the person that has been ignoring you and they always place blame on others.

You may agree or disagree but to date this is the most effective way of collecting when clinets show they have lost interest

Okay, let's just address one area of this. It sounds as though you have this method down pat for 20 years and is still happening. Ever think your approach up front might be a tad wrong ??

Sure, we all have it happen, but it's better to find out on your end why it happens so much. Other than someone pulling something on us last month or so I can count on one hand how many people have tried to swindle us. A few times in my earl years and once or twice in the last 20 years. But we got it. The longest one was almost 60 days, while the others are attended to after 10 days. No one ever gets much past 25 to 30. If your cash flow can't support this type of ordeal once every 10 years, you are doing something else very wrong.

However, it's still illegal to do what you're doing, that's all I want others to know.

 

[TimToad]

Okay, let's just address one area of this. It sounds as though you have this method down pat for 20 years and is still happening. Ever think your approach up front might be a tad wrong ??

Sure, we all have it happen, but it's better to find out on your end why it happens so much. Other than someone pulling something on us last month or so I can count on one hand how many people have tried to swindle us. A few times in my earl years and once or twice in the last 20 years. But we got it. The longest one was almost 60 days, while the others are attended to after 10 days. No one ever gets much past 25 to 30. If your cash flow can't support this type of ordeal once every 10 years, you are doing something else very wrong.

However, it's still illegal to do what you're doing, that's all I want others to know.

I think you summed it up very well. The reality is that very few customers are out to "swindle" us as others have defined it. Frankly, I don't want to operate in an adversarial dynamic where I view the customers as the "enemy" who is out to get something for nothing and that I must be on constant alert and defense against those out to "swindle" us. For the msopt part,

In my experience, the vast majority of times invoices lay unpaid is that it either ended up in the wrong person's inbox, the party I dealt with didn't forward it to the right person, or some other variation of miscommunication about the terms. Rarely, is it some nefarious plot to "steal" our property. We have a few chronic late payers, but they also bring all their work here without question, shopping around, or haggling. Are they killing our cash flow? Not in the slightest. Are they good for the money? Without exception.

We are engaged in a creative trade, unlike most "trades". I can choose to ignore the business side of things to my eventual detriment, or I can balance my need to balance my creative goals with my financial goals and make sure one doesn't dominate the other. I really like the overwhelming majority of my customers and refuse to look at them through too pessimistic or suspicious of a lens.

 

[reQ]

Had a customer 2 years ago. He wanted to change his lexan face. Long story short, proofs were done, he is happy, sign was made & installed. Called me same night and tells me how nice his sign looks! Awesome, i am happy that my customer is happy... Week later he calls me and says he does not like his sign now. Asking whats wrong? He does not have an answer. Gave him 2 weeks, and told him, if he does not pay/or tells me whats wrong with the sign, we will take it down. Okay, he said he will call me next day. Guess what, he never did. 2 weeks passed, i called him again, no answer... left a message. Next morning he never called back and his sign was taken down, graphics were removed & installed for another customer (had to trim lexan a bit but it was pretty much same size). Got paid same day, i am happy camper.

All i can think about, that previous dude wanted me to give him discount or something. But if you will allow others to treat you like piece of sh*t, they will.

 

[visual800]

Okay, let's just address one area of this. It sounds as though you have this method down pat for 20 years and is still happening. Ever think your approach up front might be a tad wrong ??

Sure, we all have it happen, but it's better to find out on your end why it happens so much. Other than someone pulling something on us last month or so I can count on one hand how many people have tried to swindle us. A few times in my earl years and once or twice in the last 20 years. But we got it. The longest one was almost 60 days, while the others are attended to after 10 days. No one ever gets much past 25 to 30. If your cash flow can't support this type of ordeal once every 10 years, you are doing something else very wrong.

However, it's still illegal to do what you're doing, that's all I want others to know.

Gino did you see me mention how many times this happens to me? No. I know how to run my biz thank you very much. I might tell you this has occured maybe 12-15 times in past 25 years. Not too bad. Im sure others have it worse.

Everytime this subject comes up we go thru the same crap. 99% of you guys wanna post the laws, state the laws and explain the laws. While you are wasting all your time trying to jump thru hoops and do the right thing, Im already getting phone calls to arrange for payment to be made. Very very few on here admit to repo'ing for fear of being bashed. I personally dont give a damn what anyone thinks of the way I do things.

OP asks for suggestions and thats mine.

 

[player]

I was under the assumption that while you are on the customers property removing the sign, it is their property and removing it is illegal.

Once you have the sign removed and onto public property, it once again is your property and you are safe from the law.

Just do the removal at 5am, and don't get caught. Better yet, don't do the install before getting the final payment.

 

[reQ]

If you don't pay for you car - repo will be at ur doorstep and will tow it from you private property because you DID NOT PAY FOR IT
If you don't pay your mortgage - bank will put foreclosure on your house and you will get kicked out from your private property because you DID NOT PAY FOR IT )

If you don't pay for something - you don't own it.

 

[player]

If you don't pay for you car - repo will be at ur doorstep and will tow it from you private property because you DID NOT PAY FOR IT
If you don't pay your mortgage - bank will put foreclosure on your house and you will get kicked out from your private property because you DID NOT PAY FOR IT )

If you don't pay for something - you don't own it.

Unless that thing becomes part of "real property". Then under the law the item has found a home, and the finacial issue is for a day in court. It feels wrong, but the law doesn't care about feelings.

 

[visual800]

I think I have mentioned this before, it was epic what one guy in our town did for payment due.

Landmark Signs, located here was owned by a guy that was quite eccentric. Very smart, crafty and hell of a nice guy. Anyway they built a large awning for a flooring company (this is back when awnings where steel) They got done and they guy wouldnt pay what balance was. The sign co was large so they just let it ride. oddly enough about 1 year later the dude calls them back because he needed a quote on a new awning.

They went out and quoted it and priced it low to get the job and asked for 50% down. The guy paid them the 50% down and the sign guy sent them a invoice stating that money was going towards what he owned them a year or so back AND he would need 50% more to start the new project.

This in my opinion is classic. Was it by law wrong? Who cares, the dude got paid and if Im correct they never heard another word out of him

 

[Gino]

Two major reasons you cannot just go and take an unpaid sign down :

1. The paperwork was never drawn up to give you this authority. The end user probably never agreed to such terms. Auto repos have quite a lengthy contract signed by all parties involved.

2. You cannot use force, threaten or go onto or into private property to repo an auto. They hafta do it while unattended like in a parking lot or on the street. No one may go on private property to repo an automobile.



I do not seek out certain individuals for arguement in this matter. However, I will continue to point out illegal ventures when I see them, hear them or read about them.

Regardless of doing something illegal once , twice or 25 times...... it's still as illegal the last time as it was the first time.

Here's one I use. If you're working at a big company and take a pencil home or an eraser, then keep it and never return it...... is that stealing ??
Sure, they're big and can afford it, but let's remain focused.... Is it still stealing ??

 

[Techman]

They hafta do it while unattended like in a parking lot or on the street. No one may go on private property to repo an automobile.

Well now looks like a peaceful replevin agents go on private property all the time. Ask me how I know.. Got house boats.. Cars, and trucks. Used a curt sanctioned warrant to do it. Very easy to get from a local clerk of court


Most states allow car lenders to come on to property and seize vehicles -- without notice to the borrower -- as long as their action does not breach the peace. “Breach of the peace” has been defined to include:

use of violence or force
threats of violence or force
acts that are likely to provoke or excite the debtor into using force or violence
verbal confrontation with the debtor (sometimes)
breaking or damaging locks, chains, fences, doors, or other property to attempt access to the car
disturbing neighbors or other third parties (sometimes)
using law enforcement to assist in—rather than just observe—the repossession, and
trespassing into the debtor's home or secured garage.

 

[Kentucky Wraps]

Add in the contract a 2.9% late fee for every month there is a balance (pro-rated daily of course) and every time you resend them the invoice...note how much extra it's costing them.
As long as they signed the contract, you're good.
As for small claims court and recovering your money with a lien etc...you have to decide if it's worth it.
I have an account that I add $36 dollars to every month. It's acting like a 3% interest investment that didn't actually cost me the amount they owe, as far as I see it...until it gets close to the statute of limitations...when I go to court.

 

[Gino]

Well now looks like a peaceful replevin agents go on private property all the time. Ask me how I know.. Got house boats.. Cars, and trucks. Used a curt sanctioned warrant to do it. Very easy to get from a local clerk of court


Most states allow car lenders to come on to property and seize vehicles -- without notice to the borrower -- as long as their action does not breach the peace. “Breach of the peace” has been defined to include:

use of violence or force
threats of violence or force
acts that are likely to provoke or excite the debtor into using force or violence
verbal confrontation with the debtor (sometimes)
breaking or damaging locks, chains, fences, doors, or other property to attempt access to the car
disturbing neighbors or other third parties (sometimes)
using law enforcement to assist in—rather than just observe—the repossession, and
trespassing into the debtor's home or secured garage.

Yes, but isn't that a long drawn out process taking at least a few days to initiate ?? You can't just show up and take your own made signs down because of non-payment, can you ??

 

[Techman]

why not get the facts for the local area instead of taking comments from a website where the opinions may be right or wrong..

 

[Gino]

Mine weren't opinions from a website. However, what you have listed there resembled some of the things I was reading. Anyway, it was the actual procedure for doing it and it sounded like it could take more than just a few minutes. Reason I asked. You appeared knowledgeable on the subject, but didn't give any concrete answers. Therefore, I asked you, but if you can only answer with my going and looking it up myself, I'll just give way to you and you have at it taking back boats, cars and stuff.

Again, it didn't sound like an unpaid sign was in the mix at all. Not enough signing of legal documents ever take place to get a replevin for such an item. Therefore, making something and handing it over to someone is one action, but where you fail to collect is another problem. They did not steal the sign. You put it up voluntarily.