Completed jobs and mistakes.

[Gino]

Sorry, but a mistake is a mistake is a mistake, regardless of how it comes in or goes out.

The choice is for the OP to accept responsibility or not. If he can't do it, then he should tell them so and take appropriate measures. It's very hard to believe that 150 jobs a month are all needed the next day, unless you are taking everything that comes down the pike. Scheduling things in an appropriate manner will yield better results and less mistakes.... granted, but the OP in this case is only talking and not taking action. Therefore, he must bow down to their wishes and do it right.

You and you alone are responsible for where you are in this world in regards to family, job and wealth. If greed is at your tail, you must do what the man is paying you to do, not make excuses.

There is nothing worse than seeing a job repeated because of someone's incapabilities. You paid for it once in labor, materials, wages, overhead and shop time. Then, to see it repeated, just makes ANY owner wince. 2, 3 times a month on these little jobs would drive me crazy. In my 44 years at this, I've made plenty of mistakes, but, I pay for my own mistakes..... plus I pay for everyone else's. It should stop or re-evaluate the cause/source. If the person in charge of this can't do the job, what would you do seeing your money go down the drain.... repeatedly ??

 

[Andy D]

Gino, you and I will have to agree to disagree..
If you were mass producing widgets, the same thing day in and day out,
then you could expect to have almost no redos or mistakes, but mistakes
are part of the cost of doing custom work, every single custom shop has them
and it's a mistake not to price that into jobs accordingly.

 

[Gino]

In every job we do, I have a sh!t/loss factor figured in, which is really for waste throughout the day from lost vinyl, time, wasted paper towels and all the other things that can't be replaced. In fact, recently I used that factor to the fullest, when I lost a whole sign. It was more than paid for, but still a loss in my eyes.

I can agree to disagree, but I think if you talk to owners vs. workers, you'll see more of a difference.

I'm not saying mistakes don't happen, cause they do and it's all part of the overall operation and as you stated it is figured in to each and every project, but what this OP is describing sounds more like negligence and should be figured out why he can't stay on top of it. Rather than lowering your expectations to the weakest link, bring your work power up to snuff should be the motto.

Finding excuses for imperfection is always easier than working harder and preventing them to begin with.

​

 

[T_K]

Unfortunately I can not get longer lead times, I've tried!
Most jobs have to go out same day @ noon, and that includes x30 24x18 yard signs printed on vinyl, full color, and applied(with no lam).

I know mistakes happen, and 2 or 3 mistakes out of 100 is totally acceptable to me.

It's just annoying. Never have I been in a job where I feared my position was in jeopardy over a $20 dollar mistake despite successful completion of a box truck wrap on the same day.

oi

I like the suggestions though, I've made a number of changes to various things... but even I **** up something. bah

It sounds like the issue is not that there are mistakes happening. It's that your boss is getting embarrassed in public by them. One thing that might help (depending on your boss) is to acknowledge his feelings of frustration and embarrassment, and assure him that you don't take it lightly. Most people respond positively to being heard and understood. It works with toddlers and it works with adults. The hard part is using the right language with adults.

At the same time, it sounds like a classic case of toxic leadership. I get embarrassed by the customer, so I turn around and make it 100 times worse for you. The problem is that fear does not motivate people to do better. It just causes them to try and cover up their mistakes better. Or get defensive, denying fault. Or to quit and go elsewhere.

There's not a lot you can do to change your boss. But you can choose how YOU operate as a supervisor. How can you create a "safe" environment where your people feel valued and free to admit mistakes and cooperate in the resolution/prevention process, but also hold each other accountable in meaningful ways.

I've got it easy right now. I'm the entire printing dept at my current job. But as we grow, we'll be hiring on new people. And then I've got to make sure that I'm motivating my people to do a better job, instead of sucking the life out of them. I want people working for me who WANT to work, not people to grovel and fear me.

In a perfect world, yes you could achieve 100% accuracy on every order. But in a perfect world, customers wouldn't give you the wrong file size. Designers would create things that are not production nightmares. Production workers would be perfectly trained on the operation and maintenance of their machines.

 

[Gino]

It sounds like the issue is not that there are mistakes happening. It's that your boss is getting embarrassed in public by them. One thing that might help (depending on your boss) is to acknowledge his feelings of frustration and embarrassment, and assure him that you don't take it lightly. Most people respond positively to being heard and understood. It works with toddlers and it works with adults. The hard part is using the right language with adults.

At the same time, it sounds like a classic case of toxic leadership. I get embarrassed by the customer, so I turn around and make it 100 times worse for you. The problem is that fear does not motivate people to do better. It just causes them to try and cover up their mistakes better. Or get defensive, denying fault. Or to quit and go elsewhere.

There's not a lot you can do to change your boss. But you can choose how YOU operate as a supervisor. How can you create a "safe" environment where your people feel valued and free to admit mistakes and cooperate in the resolution/prevention process, but also hold each other accountable in meaningful ways.

I've got it easy right now. I'm the entire printing dept at my current job. But as we grow, we'll be hiring on new people. And then I've got to make sure that I'm motivating my people to do a better job, instead of sucking the life out of them. I want people working for me who WANT to work, not people to grovel and fear me.

In a perfect world, yes you could achieve 100% accuracy on every order. But in a perfect world, customers wouldn't give you the wrong file size. Designers would create things that are not production nightmares. Production workers would be perfectly trained on the operation and maintenance of their machines.

Perhaps, embarrassed is the wrong word....... BLINDSIDED would be more like it. If an employee would sweet talk me, I'd get even angrier. Don't talk to me like I'm a fool. The only foolish thing is listening to someone babble about why or how they can make mistakes, at my cost and then defend making mistakes as if it were my fault.

There are only so many ways you can call this one.

• 150 jobs a month.
• Fast turnaround.
• Mistakes are being made.
• Who did it/them ??
• Whose job is it to make sure it doesn't happen ??

Why is there even a discussion here ?? Putting all kinds of happy adjectives and scenarios in front of the facts does not change the fact that mistakes are being made on the OP's watch.


Everyone wants people who want to work and be happy in their environment, but that doesn't describe the word 'WORK'..... does it. Generally, one gets paid an agreed upon amount of money in return for physical or mental effort directed towards doing or making something. It's a duty, job, profession, task, but it's not excuses of doing things wrong and still getting paid. That is not work, but loafing or goofing off.

One last thing, there is no perfect world, so being the boss, I hafta find the best person to fit my needs and someone making excuses ain't gonna cut it.

 

[T_K]

Perhaps, embarrassed is the wrong word....... BLINDSIDED would be more like it. If an employee would sweet talk me, I'd get even angrier. Don't talk to me like I'm a fool. The only foolish thing is listening to someone babble about why or how they can make mistakes, at my cost and then defend making mistakes as if it were my fault.

There are only so many ways you can call this one.

• 150 jobs a month.
• Fast turnaround.
• Mistakes are being made.
• Who did it/them ??
• Whose job is it to make sure it doesn't happen ??

Why is there even a discussion here ?? Putting all kinds of happy adjectives and scenarios in front of the facts does not change the fact that mistakes are being made on the OP's watch.


Everyone wants people who want to work and be happy in their environment, but that doesn't describe the word 'WORK'..... does it. Generally, one gets paid an agreed upon amount of money in return for physical or mental effort directed towards doing or making something. It's a duty, job, profession, task, but it's not excuses of doing things wrong and still getting paid. That is not work, but loafing or goofing off.

One last thing, there is no perfect world, so being the boss, I hafta find the best person to fit my needs and someone making excuses ain't gonna cut it.

I'm not talking about sweet talking the boss to humor him and get him off my case.. I'm talking about speaking human being to human being. The boss said that customers are laughing at him. That would make me mad too if it happened to me. It about acknowledging what happened - someone screwed up on an order, the boss was berated by customers, money was lost on the mistake and future orders. It's about stating that you recognize this is a real problem, and you're not ignoring the boss' concerns.

It's also not about "getting out of trouble." As the supervisor, I'm at minimum indirectly responsible for the errors. I missed a quality check, or didn't train someone properly, or something. I'm acknowledging my part in this to my boss, so we're both on the same page. That sets me up to say, "here's my action plan to fix the issue currently and to prevent this from happening in the future." Again - it's about treating human beings as such.

No work is always (or even often?) fun, especially when things go wrong. But if my main thought every day is "How do I not get fired?", then most of my mental and physical energy is focused on that and not on the job. That sounds like what the OP is describing.

If you as the owner want to guarantee my work is consistent, you can berate me publicly, yell and cuss at me, and make me feel worthless. And you'll consistently get the bare minimum effort required to keep you off my back.

But if you treat me like a real human being, and not just a cog in a money making machine for you, then I'll bend over backwards to help the company improve and grow. If people feel valued, then their work improves on their own initiative. And part of feeling valued is ACCOUNTABILITY. If the boss doesn't care what I do, then that's no better than him cussing me out in front of everyone. Knowing that my work and effort have an effect on the company, positive and negative, is part of feeling valued.

But perhaps that's too much psychology for a sign shop, huh?

 

[Andy D]

I'm not talking about sweet talking the boss to humor him and get him off my case.. I'm talking about speaking human being to human being. The boss said that customers are laughing at him. That would make me mad too if it happened to me. It about acknowledging what happened - someone screwed up on an order, the boss was berated by customers, money was lost on the mistake and future orders. It's about stating that you recognize this is a real problem, and you're not ignoring the boss' concerns.

It's also not about "getting out of trouble." As the supervisor, I'm at minimum indirectly responsible for the errors. I missed a quality check, or didn't train someone properly, or something. I'm acknowledging my part in this to my boss, so we're both on the same page. That sets me up to say, "here's my action plan to fix the issue currently and to prevent this from happening in the future." Again - it's about treating human beings as such.

No work is always (or even often?) fun, especially when things go wrong. But if my main thought every day is "How do I not get fired?", then most of my mental and physical energy is focused on that and not on the job. That sounds like what the OP is describing.

If you as the owner want to guarantee my work is consistent, you can berate me publicly, yell and cuss at me, and make me feel worthless. And you'll consistently get the bare minimum effort required to keep you off my back.

But if you treat me like a real human being, and not just a cog in a money making machine for you, then I'll bend over backwards to help the company improve and grow. If people feel valued, then their work improves on their own initiative. And part of feeling valued is ACCOUNTABILITY. If the boss doesn't care what I do, then that's no better than him cussing me out in front of everyone. Knowing that my work and effort have an effect on the company, positive and negative, is part of feeling valued.

But perhaps that's too much psychology for a sign shop, huh?

Well said, I couldn't agree more. I have worked for truly horrible managment, who had the preconceived notion that their employees were all dim witted slackers,
and any problem always started and ended with their employees, period.... Never mind that their business was a cluster f**k, that no one could possibly be productive and
not make mistakes.
The truth is, everyone wants to be good at what they do, it's as universal as wanting to be good looking or smart. It's only when bad managment beats the enthusiasm and drive out of them
that people become apathetic.

Yelling or berating an employee has nothing to do with fixing the problem, it's only a way for you to take your frustration out on someone, and that makes you a sh*tty manager (I'm not referring to anyone here, I
just mean generally ).

Why in the world would you treat someone, who is busting their @ss to make you tens of thousands of dollars a year, like that? That's a good way to have a high turn over and many more mistakes.

As matter of fact, a good manager knows when dealing with issues, don't make it personal. It's not about you and it's not about the employee, it's about finding a solution to the problem...
This includes keeping out personal verbiage like: "it makes me mad" "I get frustrated" "it embarasses me", etc.

 

[StarSign]

Unfortunately we always let the mistakes and problems ruin our day (the 1%) and never really recognize the other 99% of successes. That being said I know through personal experience that sometimes when the "boss" is coming down hard on a truly honest mistake there is usually a bigger problem the boss is dealing with, that you have no idea about. Keeping a company up and running takes a lot out of you. Employees need $$$, vendors need $$, the company needs to make $$$. Taxes, insurance, repairs...... Vendors mad, employees mad, customer mad. It can really build up.

 

[petepaz]

mistakes do happen and always will from the bottom of the employees all the way up to ownership. sounds like you just need a better QC dept/person or if you don't have one get one. if you are putting out so many jobs wrong that the owner and customers are complaining then you as the manager have to take steps to correct it. mistakes will happen but always better to catch it before it goes out the door.sounds like you need someone who just checks jobs, quality, material, job orders (written up correctly), spelling / grammar on finished products and so on... we have about 23 people working here and we make our fair share of mistakes but as pissed as my boss (the owner) gets he is always less pissed if we catch it before it goes to the customer.

 

[Andy D]

Unfortunately we always let the mistakes and problems ruin our day (the 1%) and never really recognize the other 99% of successes.

Exactly, nobody sees the 99 mistakes you catch, only the one that got through. And if the OP works
for a mismanaged business, you can't make chicken salad from chicken sh*t...that's all I'm saying.

 

[petepaz]

Exactly, nobody sees the 99 mistakes you catch, only the one that got through. And if the OP works
for a mismanaged business, you can't make chicken salad from chicken sh*t...that's all I'm saying.

Listen everyone loves a pat on the back for what they do right but unfortunately that doesn't always happen but doesn't mean you shouldn't't make efforts to make your division /unit/area (whatever you want to call it) better and if the job is that bad that you don't get the recognition or pay that you deserve for your efforts start looking for a new job. Unfortunately the main thing owners in larger companies(and some smaller companies) look at are jobs going out, being billed and money coming in.

 

[DanaK]

Unfortunately, this kind of situation is not rare. The management of wide-format production and installation involves many moving parts & changing details.
That's why oftentimes, simple management practices are not enough to do everything as perfectly as you would want.
Personally, I have heard many times from our customers that the room for human error remains huge in wide-format print, while the turnaround times are shrinking.
That's why one way to resolve it is to use an industry-tailored tool for processes management. Such as https://www.vism.io/.

And of course, setting realistic expectations is vital. Some errors occur even with the most sophisticated planning, but you can handle them faster & easier with tools like mentioned above. Just something to think about.

 

[ProSignTN]

I manage a large format department, we do from 90-150 varied jobs a month.
Within these jobs are varied quantities ranging from 1 - 50 yard signs, 1 - 10 banners, 1 - 300 decals, vehicle decals/wraps, signage, etc...
So say we do 100 jobs for the month, with 1000 products that were created with varied sizes/dimensions/materials in the end... I hope that makes sense! Now onto my question!

--------------

Where I work, we are expected to have 150% accuracy. As in, nothing ever can be wrong. I think it's a disaster to have that kind of expectation.

A dibond sign 15"x3" goes out with a set of numbers on it, one number happens to be wrong.
Spider stand banners go out, customer file was wrong size and we didn't catch it, instead of 11x17 it was 8.5x11.

Small jobs, maybe 2-3 jobs a month are wrong in some form.

I manage the department and I get my *** chewed out every time something is wrong and there's ranting and raving about it, despite every other job and item going out perfect and in a timely manner.(We usually have 1 day to produce most jobs). Our main mistakes are on the small jobs that get squeezed into the large orders!

I've had the owner of the business tell me customers are laughing in his face and he's losing jobs because nothing is ever right in my department.

I'm frustrated, it's annoying and mistakes do happen. I've made numerous changes to the work orders to help subdue the issues, but despite that, even I make mistakes once in a while due to being rushed and wanting to get stuff out the door for the last minute orders.

Am i just in a ****ty environment? Or should I have 150% accuracy on everything like they demand?

Figure the costs of uh-ohs each week, month, quarter and raise your prices to absorb them.

 

[ProSignTN]

I like the attitude of your employer. They have hired you and a number of other employees to make sure you do the job right, which makes the company look good, which brings in repeat customers and
referrals, which brings in more work which keeps everyone employed.

Mistakes happen but ... jobs going out the door that are not 100% right are a direct reflection on the company. Getting a bad rap from any customer for a job that is not right costs the company
future business and referrals. Who is in charge of Quality Control? Who double checks that person or those people? Every single job should be checked and double checked. But .... you know that.

I had a business teacher in high school that was tough as nails and instilled in our brain ... "It's either right or its not". That meant you either got a "A" or a "F". There was
absolutely no gray area, no whining, no trying to justify that there was a reason, no going to anyone higher up to whine that this teacher was being unreasonable ... "A or F ... your choice". I learned more
from that one teacher than I learned from all of the others combined about how the "real world works". Best life lesson I ever learned. Toughest darn teacher I ever had and
I took all her business classes thru high school.

Bernie

That meant you either got a "A" or a "F". Excuse me, wouldn't that be an "A", versus a "A". Oops, you get an "F". Seriously though, good post. Maybe JamesDeFelippo is a slacker who never had to fight for food before, or maybe he's working for an "entrepreneur" who bought some printers and wants to get rich quick, at anyone's expense. In 30+ years making signs (yow, before printers, hell before computers), I've been able to argue both sides of the debate. No one could possibly diagnose this situation properly with such limited information.

Many years ago I worked for a first rate sign painter and human being who taught me well. He sent me to the back to count how many steel frame golf course signs I had cut, welded, ground, prepped and primed for paint that week. I came back to the office and said, "hundred fifteen, hundred eighteen". Mild mannered sign man blew a gasket. I counted those frame four times before I came back again. Been counting everything twice ever since.

 

[FireSprint.com]

I manage a large format department, we do from 90-150 varied jobs a month.
Within these jobs are varied quantities ranging from 1 - 50 yard signs, 1 - 10 banners, 1 - 300 decals, vehicle decals/wraps, signage, etc...
So say we do 100 jobs for the month, with 1000 products that were created with varied sizes/dimensions/materials in the end... I hope that makes sense! Now onto my question!

--------------

Where I work, we are expected to have 150% accuracy. As in, nothing ever can be wrong. I think it's a disaster to have that kind of expectation.

A dibond sign 15"x3" goes out with a set of numbers on it, one number happens to be wrong.
Spider stand banners go out, customer file was wrong size and we didn't catch it, instead of 11x17 it was 8.5x11.

Small jobs, maybe 2-3 jobs a month are wrong in some form.

I manage the department and I get my *** chewed out every time something is wrong and there's ranting and raving about it, despite every other job and item going out perfect and in a timely manner.(We usually have 1 day to produce most jobs). Our main mistakes are on the small jobs that get squeezed into the large orders!

I've had the owner of the business tell me customers are laughing in his face and he's losing jobs because nothing is ever right in my department.

I'm frustrated, it's annoying and mistakes do happen. I've made numerous changes to the work orders to help subdue the issues, but despite that, even I make mistakes once in a while due to being rushed and wanting to get stuff out the door for the last minute orders.

Am i just in a ****ty environment? Or should I have 150% accuracy on everything like they demand?

I think there are two issues at play here. Not sure if it's 50/50 or 90/10.

1.) The owner doesn't communicate in a way resonates with you. Maybe they are an asshole, maybe they have the wrong expectation, maybe they are just frustrated.
2.) You are not communicating in a way that resonates with the owner. The owner doesn't feel like "You got this." When there is an error in your department, is your first instinct to own it?

Life's too short. Find a team that you communicate well with.

 

[Proofread People]

I manage a large format department, we do from 90-150 varied jobs a month.
Within these jobs are varied quantities ranging from 1 - 50 yard signs, 1 - 10 banners, 1 - 300 decals, vehicle decals/wraps, signage, etc...
So say we do 100 jobs for the month, with 1000 products that were created with varied sizes/dimensions/materials in the end... I hope that makes sense! Now onto my question!

--------------

Where I work, we are expected to have 150% accuracy. As in, nothing ever can be wrong. I think it's a disaster to have that kind of expectation.

A dibond sign 15"x3" goes out with a set of numbers on it, one number happens to be wrong.
Spider stand banners go out, customer file was wrong size and we didn't catch it, instead of 11x17 it was 8.5x11.

Small jobs, maybe 2-3 jobs a month are wrong in some form.

I manage the department and I get my *** chewed out every time something is wrong and there's ranting and raving about it, despite every other job and item going out perfect and in a timely manner.(We usually have 1 day to produce most jobs). Our main mistakes are on the small jobs that get squeezed into the large orders!

I've had the owner of the business tell me customers are laughing in his face and he's losing jobs because nothing is ever right in my department.

I'm frustrated, it's annoying and mistakes do happen. I've made numerous changes to the work orders to help subdue the issues, but despite that, even I make mistakes once in a while due to being rushed and wanting to get stuff out the door for the last minute orders.

Am i just in a ****ty environment? Or should I have 150% accuracy on everything like they demand?

You have a customer proofing process don't you with an added disclaimer saying "we make every effort to ensure accuracy, blah, blah, blah and they are responsible for typos or incorrect sizing if the "customer provided it". And you have a QC process in place before your product goes out the door, don't you?

 

[Proofread People]

and you have documentation where the customer signs off on it, right? Everything we do has a paper trail and even then, to err is human. But documentation backs you up when your argument is that you tried in good faith on your end of the process, to produce an accurate product. Good luck and try not to stress.

 

[Elwood "Woody" Smith]

This is a common problem in our industry. too much work for to few people. I have been doing this for 31+ years. Years ago, shops had QC people and departments just to check the color quality while something was being printed and then going out the door. those people do not exist anymore and the deadlines have gotten tighter and tighter. Mistakes will happen under this plan of attack we are all dealing with. We do about 750-1,500 projects a month, all with one production manager, 15 production people, 6 installers and 10 salespeople. We have no designers (all freelance) and we do not build signs, we are strictly a large format print shop and job out all sign fab that we happen to do. I would say you need to have a heart to heart with your owner. Anything under 3-4 business days should require a premium or rush fee, sure there are exceptions, but that being said. When you are prodicng most of your projects same day, it takes away for the amount of work you can produce efficiently, and increases your errors by two fold at least. These re just the facts.

All I can say is good luck in this crazy business that I have loved my entire career. Is it a challenge? For sure. But that is what makes it fulfilling at the end of the day.