Contractor Woes - If its not in my quote am I liable for it?

[OPA Signs]

TL/DR (too long didnt read) - Contractor wants credit for something i missed but never quoted

For anyone that bids work to general contractors im guessing you have all been in this situation in what way or another. I bid a job, around 20k, for interior signs, dimensional lettering, and the installation of some owner provided exterior channel lettering.

In my quote, i included for a set of dimensional letters that read 'reception' in actuality there were two sets of letters but my quote is specifically for one set. He brought it to my attention so I offered to change my quote to two sets. He replied back that I would have to eat the second set because it was in the plans. He is not wrong, they were in the plans, but I only quoted as one set. It was my error. he didnt catch my error. Am i technically liable for it or is he just strong-arming? I could provide him exactly whats in my quote and be technically correct. My gut tells me that if i read alllllll the fine print of my subcontract they have a nice workaround for this.


Furthermore, there was a set of address letters on the plans, nothing in the specs, and not even a detail of what they are - just simply lettering on an elevation drawing. Nowhere do these appear in my quote. He informed me of it a couple weeks ago that he wants me to provide them, on my dime as i "missed" it. Maybe I did, but it also never appeared on my itemized quote.

Today i get an email that the address lettering has been removed from my scope of work and he would like to be issued a credit. My snarky response is making a credit line item for $0 as they never existed to me in the first place. Whats the better play?

What frustrates me the most with (some) contractors is that its always an im right,youre wrong, one sided conversation. I get it, were not on the same team we represent different interest BUT we share the same goal.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Thats tough but typically when you miss something you eat it and when unforseen things or additions come up you can add it. Ask him to show you where the address was in the plans. I wouldnt give credit if it wasnt in your bid. Sounds like you got stuck with a greedy PM that squeezes everyone for a bigger bonus.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

TL/DR (too long didnt read) - Contractor wants credit for something i missed but never quoted

For anyone that bids work to general contractors im guessing you have all been in this situation in what way or another. I bid a job, around 20k, for interior signs, dimensional lettering, and the installation of some owner provided exterior channel lettering.

In my quote, i included for a set of dimensional letters that read 'reception' in actuality there were two sets of letters but my quote is specifically for one set. He brought it to my attention so I offered to change my quote to two sets. He replied back that I would have to eat the second set because it was in the plans. He is not wrong, they were in the plans, but I only quoted as one set. It was my error. he didnt catch my error. Am i technically liable for it or is he just strong-arming? I could provide him exactly whats in my quote and be technically correct. My gut tells me that if i read alllllll the fine print of my subcontract they have a nice workaround for this.


Furthermore, there was a set of address letters on the plans, nothing in the specs, and not even a detail of what they are - just simply lettering on an elevation drawing. Nowhere do these appear in my quote. He informed me of it a couple weeks ago that he wants me to provide them, on my dime as i "missed" it. Maybe I did, but it also never appeared on my itemized quote.

Today i get an email that the address lettering has been removed from my scope of work and he would like to be issued a credit. My snarky response is making a credit line item for $0 as they never existed to me in the first place. Whats the better play?

What frustrates me the most with (some) contractors is that its always an im right,youre wrong, one sided conversation. I get it, were not on the same team we represent different interest BUT we share the same goal.

What if the quote was for 100 signs and you thought it was only 1, would he expect for you to cover the other 99 for free? The address wasn't included so how can you credit something that wasn't charged in the first place? This guy sounds like he's got a giant **** up his ass

 

[MikePro]

had this happen a few times. gotta suck it up and make it right.
Had a project for a new university dormatory, and was mind-boggled at how many signs a salesman had missed in our quote. easily $5k worth of product buried in their architectural documents & overlooked... but we won the bid, and we were on the hook for it. Cheaper to produce & install, than try to fight it and have them just sub it out to someone else and charge you for it.

besides, that $5k was a cost of doing business... still made money on the project, and a bridge that wasn't burned has since rolled-into dozens of other BIG projects through the same GC/Architect. But every bid should be combed-over carefully assuming there's landmines in the details.

 

[Bradley Signs]

I suppose it all comes down to what he, as an advertiser for your work is worth! Do you want and or need him to say nice things about you to other contractors, or does everyone else think he's a dick and know what he is like?
If you are a well established business and people know your word to be good, argue it. If you need future work, basically, suck it up!
I did that when I was young and trying to get established.
Now, it's a whole different story!

 

[Notarealsignguy]

What if the quote was for 100 signs and you thought it was only 1, would he expect for you to cover the other 99 for free? The address wasn't included so how can you credit something that wasn't charged in the first place? This guy sounds like he's got a giant **** up his ***

They usually have a budget amount already and if someone comes in way under or over they will either throw it out or ask them why. No decent contractor wants someone to walk off the job, go belly up mid way through or change order everything to make money.

 

[MikePro]

regarding the address lettering, if there were no specs for it then write up a quote for vinyl lettering & 1hr install for them to consider credit.... maybe even provide an additional quote with a +$$$ uptick for painted dimensional lettering that you could flip in a pinch to make it the right way, but they gotta pay for the upgrade.

 

[Gino]

Well, it seems as if you need a proofreader. You really missed a lotta things.

Have done quite a few of these kinda things. First and most important, did you anywhere in e-mails, in your quote or verbally say, everything was covered from his spec sheet ?? It's a technicality, but your quote is your quote. His spec sheet is to keep all bids on the same page. If you purposely misrepresented yourself, you'd be on the hook. However misreading one item is not a crime and they SHOULD be understanding about that. However, they don't hafta be understanding as your bid was lower due to omitting so much. Some people look at that as getting your foot in the door and then saying..... Oh, we need to add this and add that without having a punch list. It's a tough call, but add up the pros & cons and see if this client is worth losing or keeping like mentioned.

 

[rjssigns]

Eat it, move on, and be more careful next time. It's what I do. And like Gino said, put a second set of eyes on it.

 

[Gino]

Here's a 'for instance' on something like this, but in reverse

Years ago, we lost several jobs to being overpriced based upon the spec sheet provided. It happened on certain ones and not others. One time, I asked after losing still another job, who made the spec sheet up ?? I was told and it was another local company, with massive equipment. After studying everything I did on many of these quotes, I figured out, they were giving wrong specs to the company, so when the bids came in, they were all overpriced and the spec guy got all the jobs. If another company was awarded the job, the specs were wrong. Now, this pertains to sizes only. Everything was there, just wrong sizes, which made everyone bid on oversized substrates from metal, to poly to awnings. Everything needed to be cut down on site. Real pain.

So, it can be done to purposely point someone in a different direction for getting the bid, if the original company knows EXACTLY what they're bidding on.

 

[OPA Signs]

Here's a 'for instance' on something like this, but in reverse

Years ago, we lost several jobs to being overpriced based upon the spec sheet provided. It happened on certain ones and not others. One time, I asked after losing still another job, who made the spec sheet up ?? I was told and it was another local company, with massive equipment. After studying everything I did on many of these quotes, I figured out, they were giving wrong specs to the company, so when the bids came in, they were all overpriced and the spec guy got all the jobs. If another company was awarded the job, the specs were wrong. Now, this pertains to sizes only. Everything was there, just wrong sizes, which made everyone bid on oversized substrates from metal, to poly to awnings. Everything needed to be cut down on site. Real pain.

So, it can be done to purposely point someone in a different direction for getting the bid, if the original company knows EXACTLY what they're bidding on.

Maybe the same example your explaining - I was at a pricing seminar at ISA where the speaker talked (bragged?) about being hired to do a comprehensive multi location survey for a brand update. when it came time to boil all that info out would he purposely inflate the data so when the company sent out their RFP all the other companies were at a disadvantage because all their numbers were for signs 20% larger. If he was doing that work on spec it would be one thing. He was getting paid and lied about the data. You shouldnt get paid to lie!... but sometimes you have to lie to get paid. woof.

My situation is different because its not sign companies dealing with sign companies. Its more just about the nature of sub contracting and knowing how firm or squashy the ground is beneath you.

 

[OPA Signs]

Thats tough but typically when you miss something you eat it and when unforseen things or additions come up you can add it. Ask him to show you where the address was in the plans. I wouldnt give credit if it wasnt in your bid. Sounds like you got stuck with a greedy PM that squeezes everyone for a bigger bonus.

its definitely works both ways and I can say im almost always an amicable,level headed conversation where this one just feels petty. Vague specifications can help as much as they can hurt. Often times i will find conflicting information in plans vs. specs so you bid whichever is cheaper and if they want the other option you just change order your way there.

 

[OPA Signs]

Eat it, move on, and be more careful next time. It's what I do. And like Gino said, put a second set of eyes on it.

amen. Sometimes these bids sneak up on you or you plan on spending your morning combing it over only to be sideswiped by someone else emergency so you pump out a bid, add some padding and hope for the best.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

How much $ are we talking about is the real question?

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Contracting is a down and dirty business. This back and forth stuff is a game most of the time. There are always issues with plans and things wont work right but contractors can take advantage of it. They will go in with a tight bid knowing full well something wont work and then hammer you with change orders. You can be too cheap from missing a bunch of things too and they will either force you to finish or go after your bond to finish it.

 

[CanuckSigns]

If it's the typical interior signage RFQ put out by an architect, it's tricky, usually there are quite a few contradictions in the bid documents, and they never leave enough time to get questions answered.

I just had one cross my desk last week that spec's all Vista system products, however it also stipulated they the winning bidder must manufacture all components in house and is barred from using any sub contractors, try to figure that one out.

I usually don't bid on these any more, it's a price driven process, the only thing that matters is that they get the lowest price, there is no loyalty, it's always about price.

We bid and lost a job to install about 75 various regulatory signs in a new school parking lot, then we got a call 1 year later to fix them, the winning bidder put the U channel posts in the ground 10 inches and called it a day. Next time that architect put out a bid, the same company won cause they were the cheapest.

 

[Zendavor Signs]

If it's the typical interior signage RFQ put out by an architect, it's tricky, usually there are quite a few contradictions in the bid documents, and they never leave enough time to get questions answered.

I just had one cross my desk last week that spec's all Vista system products, however it also stipulated they the winning bidder must manufacture all components in house and is barred from using any sub contractors, try to figure that one out.

I usually don't bid on these any more, it's a price driven process, the only thing that matters is that they get the lowest price, there is no loyalty, it's always about price.

We bid and lost a job to install about 75 various regulatory signs in a new school parking lot, then we got a call 1 year later to fix them, the winning bidder put the U channel posts in the ground 10 inches and called it a day. Next time that architect put out a bid, the same company won cause they were the cheapest.

It's because of this monkey business, that I make every effort to reach out to the client directly and persuade them to hire us directly. It's a win-win. Contractors don't care, signs are just a thorn in their side. It will only work for certain cases, but I have done a number of projects this way. I ask the customer if they want a local sign company to take care of them, who has a vested interest to keeping them completely satisfied, or if they want to go through a contractor who could care less about their signs. I have a friend that does estimating for a construction company. He said the specs on signage are often so vague, that I would be taking a big risk just blindly quoting jobs because I could be held liable for any missed items or misinterpreted items.

 

[ams]

Your quote is your contract, if you didn't charge for it, you don't have to do it. The contractor should have verified everything was the correct quantity.

 

[visual800]

OK, so the contractor wont allow you to "add" for something missed but wants "credit" for something taken out, what your dealing with is a class A D**khead. When he asked for that credit you should have replied "Sorry bid has already been submitted"

as far as what you missed how much money are we talking? If its a couple grand I might get upset other than that let it go and hopefully you will do more work for this guy

 

[neutrinocv]

Theses quoting bids come with a lot of fine print to be read BEFORE you even start reading the scope of work. Alternally, your quote should come with similar fine print stating about their proper verification of your quote (amounts, specs, etc...) and that any unspecified items/work and/or changes in the specs of their bid request after being awarded the job, those are extras. We even add that any removals (for credit) need our written approval (because it can sometimes affect your bulk buying costs).
I your case, and not knowing the fine print in your agreement, I would trade off his credit request for your missed item... Make the missed item for free but do not give a credit for something you never quoted on as it did not properly appear in the list.