Copy right or trademark logos illegal

[Justin]

That's false. I've heard it straight from a 30 year patent lawyer, and from chrysler's licensing department.

And regarding the whistle blower on the ebay decal seller. wow that's a dick move and a waste of your time. #1 whether they sell legally or illegally, it has no effect on you and there are enough corporate watchdogs out there doing their job without your help needed. #2 if they are licensed, you just wasted their time, Disney's time and your time. good job. if they have a long record of selling on ebay with no hassles from disney, they are either legal, or disney doesn't care cause ebay is about the fastest way to get busted slinging unlicensed stuff. Also, they can be buying from a licensed source and reselling. If anyhting, you could have just asked them. you're like a little kid on the playground tattling on someone else. "teacher! teacher!... someone else just hit someone else with a ball!" they might be playing dodgeball, or not, either way, id think you should have better things to do.

How is it fair they can sell decals that have trademarks, but I can't? I'd bet my left leg they don't have a license to sell those decals because they don't have the trademark symbol on any of the decals. They also don't state they are licensed, or not. It actually does have an effect on me whether they sell legally, or illegally. Let's say I want to sell the decals.. I contact Disney, and they tell me no, but that seller hasn't contacted Disney, and is allowed to sell them. How is that right? Also, let's say I contact Disney, and they want me to pay $20,000 to use Mickey, but that seller didn't have to pay that at all. How the heck is that fair, or right?

I'm just the type of person who thinks this life should be as fair as possible. We all live here together, and we should all have the same rights, chance of life/education/whatever. I know it's not always fair, or never will be, but I think people should atleast try to make it that way. If you have the right to life, I should too. If you have the right to wear purple, or green, I should too. If you have the right to sell Disney decals, I should too.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

To be frank, I don't know any law that says you need to know about copyright/trademark laws to have a business.

I'm unaware of a law that requires that as well, however, just because you don't know the law doesn't give you any protection. That's the kicker. It would do well to know the laws for the business that you are in. I would consider that the same as knowing the market for your business in the area that you are in etc. It's not required, but it does pay to know these things.

The real problem I have with contacting these companies is that they won't give you permission to use their logo/character/whatever. I mean if they were more realistic in their expectations, and rules then I have no doubt that everyone would want to contact these companies to get permission, and be safe. These companies just aren't like that though.

So if you found someone that used something that you had rights to and used it because they were afraid that you would say no to them using it you wouldn't have a problem with that?

 

[WildWestDesigns]

from my understanding, in that situation, you CAN do it. and if you called disney and asked they'd say go right ahead. fair use. it's when you sell it that it becomes an issue.

It's about damages. You don't have the right to give it away unless the owner has given you permission to give it away. That's costing them sells, even if you don't make a dime off of it.

 

[natedawg9640]

There doesn't have to be any mark at all to signify if it's protected or not, or if its a legal reproduction or not. and just cause you ask, doesn't mean they'll let you. companies dont just give permission to everyone, even IF the inquiring business offers to pay the royalties. I tried to acquire licensing from Mopar and even though i could afford the monetary costs and everything else, they still said no because they have a limit to how many licensee's they allow to offer product in a variety of categories. likely, you CANT get licensed even if you want to. (oh and this is trademark usage) copyright may be a bit different...

 

[Justin]

So if you found someone that used something that you had rights to and used it because they were afraid that you would say no to them using it you wouldn't have a problem with that?

It depends. If they are some college kid just messing around, or some small business in podunk I probably wouldn't care at all. If they are some huge company, someone well off, or someone trying to make a living strictly off what I created then I would have a problem. I still wouldn't excessively charge them, but like 5% of whatever they sell it for, or something..

 

[WildWestDesigns]

I tried to acquire licensing from Mopar and even though i could afford the monetary costs and everything else, they still said no because they have a limit to how many licensee's they allow to offer product in a variety of categories.

Well it's smart for them to do so. That helps keep the ability to charge higher dollar for merchandise product then a company that just willy nilly hands out the rights.

Have to remember, bottom line is that this is business and not personal. That really don't care if Cinderella is for your 8 yr old girls room or not.

 

[natedawg9640]

It's about damages. You don't have the right to give it away unless the owner has given you permission to give it away. That's costing them sells, even if you don't make a dime off of it.

the only way i can see that holding water is if there was an identical product available for purchase from the parent company. im just saying, i was told by the licensing department (who should know more than anyone) and a patent lawyer (who cost me $400 in an informational consultation) that if its for personal use, it falls under fair use and it's legal.

 

[Joe Diaz]

http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-fairuse.html#permission

 

[Justin]

There doesn't have to be any mark at all to signify if it's protected or not, or if its a legal reproduction or not. and just cause you ask, doesn't mean they'll let you. companies dont just give permission to everyone, even IF the inquiring business offers to pay the royalties. I tried to acquire licensing from Mopar and even though i could afford the monetary costs and everything else, they still said no because they have a limit to how many licensee's they allow to offer product in a variety of categories. likely, you CANT get licensed even if you want to. (oh and this is trademark usage) copyright may be a bit different...

That's the thing I have a problem with I just don't think it's right at all. They shouldn't give someone a leg up simply because they can.. I'm sure they wouldn't want the samething done to them. I know it happens, and will continue to happen, but that's just my view.

 

[Justin]

How much of someone else's work can I use without getting permission?
Under the fair use doctrine of the U.S. copyright statute, it is permissible to use limited portions of a work including quotes, for purposes such as commentary, criticism, news reporting, and scholarly reports. There are no legal rules permitting the use of a specific number of words, a certain number of musical notes, or percentage of a work. Whether a particular use qualifies as fair use depends on all the circumstances. See FL 102, Fair Use, and Circular 21, Reproductions of Copyrighted Works by Educators and Librarians.

How much do I have to change in order to claim copyright in someone else's work?
Only the owner of copyright in a work has the right to prepare, or to authorize someone else to create, a new version of that work. Accordingly, you cannot claim copyright to another's work, no matter how much you change it, unless you have the owner's consent. See Circular 14, Copyright Registration for Derivative Works.

The paragraph directly above this just seems too open. Do they want me to change Mickey from a rat to a monkey, or can I simply make his ears smaller, or add a tail? Too open!

 

[WildWestDesigns]

It depends. If they are some college kid just messing around, or some small business in podunk I probably wouldn't care at all. If they are some huge company, someone well off, or someone trying to make a living strictly off what I created then I would have a problem. I still wouldn't excessively charge them, but like 5% of whatever they sell it for, or something..

So, you do still have a problem with it, it just depends on the situation. Well their situation might have a different set of depends depending on their C/B ratio.

Now, here is the kicker, even though you might not choose to use the law in certain times, that doesn't mean that the next company shares your sympathy and do so.

The biggest thing, I can't really see the big boys coming after someone that prints something and keeps it in their house out of the public. Once you start give it away and/or selling it to other people and it gets out there. Your flooding the market and your causing their product to take a hit in value. Not that much different then low balling sign companies coming in and bring the cost of product down.

Just food for thought.

 

[Joe Diaz]

That's the thing I have a problem with I just don't think it's right at all. They shouldn't give someone a leg up simply because they can..

Why not? It's their property. And when it comes to licences I would imagine limiting the amount of licensed distributors would be easier for a company to manage. Their priorities lie with their brand, not how successful everyone else business is. If you can't get a licence or permission then tuff, that's just the way it's going to be.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

the only way i can see that holding water is if there was an identical product available for purchase from the parent company. im just saying, i was told by the licensing department (who should know more than anyone) and a patent lawyer (who cost me $400 in an informational consultation) that if its for personal use, it falls under fair use and it's legal.

Licensing department may or may not know. You want to talk to the lawyers. My mom's friend is a patent lawyer for TI and my dad was a contract lawyer for over 30 yrs.

It wouldn't have to be something that was exactly out on the market. You are still dinging their sales, because if you had gotten the proper documentations, I can promise you they would be making money off what you sold (most have a % of sales above the normal fees).

 

[signswi]

I have done it, will continue to do it. The way I look at it if its available on the web, on disks and other are doing worse Ill continue to do it. I dont have time to act as the copyright police when so many others are just blatantly selling crap on ebay

Please keep jeopardizing your entire business for dumb crap like this and your tax avoidance posts, it will make for great reading later as a case study in what not to do.

I'm a pain in the *** about copyright. If the customer doesn't have legit reproduction clearance (or remix clearance if we're designing with/around it) than we won't touch it. The people who want to violate copyright tend to be small profit anyway and it's yet another useful velvet rope, one that has the side effect of protecting your business from going down in flames.

 

[signswi]

How much of someone else's work can I use without getting permission?
Under the fair use doctrine of the U.S. copyright statute, it is permissible to use limited portions of a work including quotes, for purposes such as commentary, criticism, news reporting, and scholarly reports. There are no legal rules permitting the use of a specific number of words, a certain number of musical notes, or percentage of a work. Whether a particular use qualifies as fair use depends on all the circumstances. See FL 102, Fair Use, and Circular 21, Reproductions of Copyrighted Works by Educators and Librarians.

How much do I have to change in order to claim copyright in someone else's work?
Only the owner of copyright in a work has the right to prepare, or to authorize someone else to create, a new version of that work. Accordingly, you cannot claim copyright to another's work, no matter how much you change it, unless you have the owner's consent. See Circular 14, Copyright Registration for Derivative Works.

The paragraph directly above this just seems too open. Do they want me to change Mickey from a rat to a monkey, or can I simply make his ears smaller, or add a tail? Too open!

You can't do any of that, and no, it's not too open. Any remix is a derivative work and therefor protected. There is no "change x amount and you're good" nonsense, that's urban legend.

 

[Gino]

Justin..... you and others like you.... are the VERY reason there are so many problems in this area.

You think because you don't have an answer or a black and white sentence stating it you're relieved of obeying the laws ??


Where is it written that you cannot kill another human being ??

We all know you can't, but I want you to show me where it's written, otherwise, I guess I can, based on your reasoning powers.

Plain old ignoring the facts is a p!ss poor excuse to not respond to the problem. What any intelligent person knows vs. what you want to do is I guess alright with you. If you want to do things by Justin's law, then write them down, so we can all follow them, so you're not upset.

I mean really, at least visual is honest about it. He's just gonna do what he wants and take his chances, but you.... you wanna do it because you think differently and want to be treated like the other people breaking the law. So, in your world, it's whoever is in the majority which wins the case.... no care for the truth.

Do you own a copier ?? A real copier, not some printer/copier. Read the label right under the cover..... and see if you still disagree.

 

[Justin]

I guess I'll go visuals way.. Lol!

 

[SightLine]

So since they are doing it illegally (ie not paying royalties or other licensing fees) they more often that not sell their illegal products for considerably less that what a licensed product is sold for. That in itself hurts the entire market, it takes sales from legitimate sellers bucause buyers are going to go for the lower price. So not only does the entire market hurt from artifically low prices, individuals also are hurt from lost sales. Often times the customers also get inferior products which hurts customer perception of the products and the brand marks.

That's false. I've heard it straight from a 30 year patent lawyer, and from chrysler's licensing department.

And regarding the whistle blower on the ebay decal seller. wow that's a dick move and a waste of your time. #1 whether they sell legally or illegally, it has no effect on you and there are enough corporate watchdogs out there doing their job without your help needed. #2 if they are licensed, you just wasted their time, Disney's time and your time. good job. if they have a long record of selling on ebay with no hassles from disney, they are either legal, or disney doesn't care cause ebay is about the fastest way to get busted slinging unlicensed stuff. Also, they can be buying from a licensed source and reselling. If anyhting, you could have just asked them. you're like a little kid on the playground tattling on someone else. "teacher! teacher!... someone else just hit someone else with a ball!" they might be playing dodgeball, or not, either way, id think you should have better things to do.

 

[TyrantDesigner]

I personally think having the mentality that you or someone else used to do it at one time, or a bunch of other people still do it today, so I should have the right to do it now, isn't the right way to look at it. I also personally think the fear of being sued isn't enough, because you will always have people who think they can just avoid being caught or that it is unlikely that they will get caught. I think people just need to realize that it's wrong, and until you have been on the receiving end, which I know some of have been, it's going to be difficult to understand that concept.

You know, the time and effort some people spend looking for loopholes could be spent just asking for permission or if need be pay for a licence to redistribute a copyrighted image. You would be surprised how easy it can be in some cases. But the point is these people/companies have a right to protect their brand and the rights to distribute it.

 

[sardocs]

Justin - If you want to sell really cool cartoon characters then you should learn to draw some of your own. Design a whole series of 'em and give 'em cool names. Like Quacky Duck and Bigbutt Bear. Sell the heck out of them. Print them, advertise them, sell them at flea markets or on the web. Then when you see somebody else selling copies of your stuff on ebay you might understand. Or not....