Copyright Quandary

[rjssigns]

Morning all. I will give you the Readers Digest version of the issue.

1) New pub needs new logo.
2) Designer does new logo.
3) Pub owner only has low res logo and wants to put logo on various items.
4) Our shop is contacted to do work, but logo in present state is useless.
5) Pub owner tries to make contact with designer to get high-res file. No response weeks later.
6) Our contact info is forwarded to designer. Again, no response after weeks.
7) According to pub owner the designer went out of business.

Where does that leave us? I've never been in this situation. Does the pub owner have the right to sign off? I could have the art digitized, but...

 

[MikePro]

over thinking it, i believe.

 

[michsanford]

I would just recreate it. Obviously, you have tried and tried, with no response.

 

[laserman70]

After trying to contact the designer many times.
If they are truly out of business. Recreate it.
I hate to do things like that.. BUT....
You have exhausted all measures...

 

[Joe Diaz]

Is the logo nice? You could use it as an opportunity to sell them a new one. You could try to sell them on the idea by assuring them that your logo would be available in multiple file formats and would be production ready for the various needs they may someday have. I know that has always been a major selling point when we try to sell our design work.

 

[signage]

Is the logo nice? You could use it as an opportunity to sell them a new one. You could try to sell them on the idea by assuring them that your logo would be available in multiple file formats and would be production ready for the various needs they may someday have. I know that has always been a major selling point when we try to sell our design work.

+1

 

[Gino]

I don't believe trying with no response is a good excuse and I doubt your new customer is telling you the truth about his designer going out of business.

I've run into this countless times.... these lame excuses are all about your customer being too lazy to do his due diligence to get you what you need.

I'd play it safe and ask him to sign a waiver that his designer is indeed out of business and that your customer now has the rights to this logo and is giving you full permission to do what's needed.

Honestly, if you're not changing it and only vectorizing it, I don't see the need for any of this, but again, to feel safe, have him sign off on the thing and git'r done.......

Make sure you quote him what it's going to cost for this upgrade and make sure you charge him so he owns it for sure this time.
​

 

[Jillbeans]

I'm with both Joe and Gino.
To me, something seems fishy here, hopefully it's not.
Reproduce it after they sign a waiver, or just design something new.
Love....Jill

 

[SignManiac]

Sell him a new one. I'm sure he won't want to pay for it twice though. And even if the original designer went out of business, it's still his logo and copyright protected unless the owner can show he paid for it and does in fact own it.... If I go out of business today, that doesn't give everyone right to all my works.

 

[Marlene]

I'd play it safe and ask him to sign a waiver that his designer is indeed out of business and that your customer now has the rights to this logo and is giving you full permission to do what's needed.

have them sign off. since they have only a low res file, it may be they didn't buy it as if they had, they would have had what was needed for other jobs. make them sign off as it seems like the blame would fall back on them if they are ripping off anyone over this. if shows you did what you knew to be right

 

[Billct2]

Contact the designer yourself, if the client refuses then you have your answer.

 

[WI]

Wait, what? Your customer was only provided with a low-res version of something they paid for? I know there's some real schmucks out there in the design world, but the artwork you were provided with sounds suspiciously like a proof to me.

 

[rjssigns]

Wow thanks for the responses. The logo is nice and fits the area well. Owner is on a shoe-string so a complete re-do is out. The whole situation is odd though. Logo gets designed and two large pan faces are done and put in a lighted 2-sided hanging cabinet. Back of brick building had wall-dogging started, but never finished. Wall-doggin was started over a year ago so there have been ample warm days to finish.

After seeing your responses I am going to get the owner to sign off. Then I'll start over by creating a hi-res copy.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Wow thanks for the responses. The logo is nice and fits the area well. Owner is on a shoe-string so a complete re-do is out. The whole situation is odd though. Logo gets designed and two large pan faces are done and put in a lighted 2-sided hanging cabinet. Back of brick building had wall-dogging started, but never finished. Wall-doggin was started over a year ago so there have been ample warm days to finish.

After seeing your responses I am going to get the owner to sign off. Then I'll start over by creating a hi-res copy.

I see that and I worry about the whole situation.

Something doesn't sound right in all of this.

 

[rjssigns]

I see that and I worry about the whole situation.

Something doesn't sound right in all of this.

Ah yes. I see says the blind man. Sometimes someone needs to tell me what's been in the back of my brain. LOL

 

[royster13]

You do know that a "waiver" is not worth the paper it it written on if you have deeper pockets than your client....And your liability insurance may deny any claim made in the future as what you are doing is an "intentional act"...Good luck.....

 

[signage]

You do know that a "waiver" is not worth the paper it it written on if you have deeper pockets than your client....And your liability insurance may deny any claim made in the future as what you are doing is an "intentional act"...Good luck.....

Good Point! Need to check with my lawyer on this.

 

[Gino]

For the most part, the only way a ‘Waiver’ cannot be enforced or considered legal is if you sign one before entering into a sporting event and you get injured, thus losing some of your constitutional rights. If you are injured bad enough, then a closer study of what rights you surrendered will be evaluated and the waiver might not hold up. Another way of a waiver not holding up is if it’s fraud or a misrepresentation where you would purposely falsify some content of it. Another way is if you were found negligent on some count of what you were doing. Lastly, if the product was defective and you knew it. Other than that, all waivers are considered 100% legal if both parties are in agreement.

So, suffice it to say…… if two parties enter into an agreement and both parties sign a waiver with full disclosure, of course the waiver will hold up in any court in this country. Perhaps, if you made someone sign something and change the parameters later on, something might go wrong, but that’s why both parties keep an exact original of such agreements. Here is where a copy will not be a good idea.

Like mentioned, he is only duplicating a logo for fabricating. He is not breaking any laws on the books, if what the customer is saying is true.

 

[royster13]

If 2 parties enter into a waiver agreement, it is far different than a waiver that does not involve the third party......

A "hold harmless" agreement is a contractual obligation by 1 party to cover another parties costs if there is a problem....But there is nothing stopping the Third Party from going after anyone they can....Generally if they win, the damages will be "joint & several" meaning both 1st parties lose and the Third Party can recover from either 1st party.....If you pay out, then you can use the "hold harmless" to attempt to recover from the other Third Party.....However, if they do not have a "pot to **** in" you will be out of luck....

 

[Pat Whatley]

Fix the artwork, make the signs, deposit the check, go on with life.