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CorelDRAW 2019

Bobby H

Arial Sucks.
WildWestDesigns said:
Wait until talking about software whose perpetual licenses cost around $15k for 1 seat.

Any company charging that kind of money is not selling to any casual, individual users, unlike Corel. CorelDRAW is more of a mainstream software application. It isn't just for businesses. The vendors selling very high priced niche software are selling to companies who can write off that cost.

CorelDRAW 2019 versus the 2018 version seems little more than a re-arrangement of one menu and a pixel-based editing add-on. Is that worth $199, plus $99 per year from here on out just to keep a perpetual license "alive?"

WildWestDesigns said:
You can pretty much see this with any SaaS package. Some may start out all well and good as far as quality of updates go, at some point marginal utility kicks in for everything. At that point, acquiring companies and integration of those acquisitions is about the only way to keep "innovating".

The software vendor definitely has to do something to sweeten the deal. I feel like Adobe offers a lot of value for a $52.99 per month subscription. But a huge number of people disagree (and many of those in disagreement are stuck between a rock and hard place, forced to do business with Adobe since they're almost a monopoly of sorts). As much as I've liked using CorelDRAW for nearly 30 years I'll be the first to say Corel is not in the same league as Adobe. Corel is struggling to remain relevant in the graphics industry. Worse yet, the company is debt-saddled, thanks to a vulture capital firm taking control years ago and then going on an acquisition spree. I feel as if this policy change for upgrade pricing is a big roll of the dice dictated by that vulture capital firm. Those day-traders could end up totally wrecking Corel with this user-shakedown gamble. Corel doesn't control industry standards on much of anything in the graphics world. But they think they're in a position to ramp up prices on a somewhat small user base? We'll see how it plays out.
 

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
Any company charging that kind of money is not selling to any casual, individual users, unlike Corel. CorelDRAW is more of a mainstream software application. It isn't just for businesses. The vendors selling very high priced niche software are selling to companies who can write off that cost.

I can give you about 60 exceptions to that thought in a Facebook Help group (that has members from that company as well) alone for that very software. If there is that many, there are others that may not even know about that group (or don't even use FB at all). In some instances, that may be true, but they do sell to casual and individual users for their most expensive version. Their low end hobby version I think is around $1400, which is on par for any good low end package in this trade.

That's why I kinda laugh when people in here want a sub $1k version of that type of software. It's a huge, huge compromise in my world (by that I mean it relies more on the software doing the work then the user) even for a "home" user. I know one decent $700 program, but it is still limited, which is price wise on par with what Ai used to be for perpetual.

It would be like Adobe striping out "Live Trace" and selling it for $40 . That's what sub $1k effectively gets you. Some give you a little more then that (that $700 program would), but that's effectively what you are getting.

The thing is, in my world, crazy expensive niche software is expected, not just for the "home user", but the ones that are "freelancers" or "company" purchasers as well.

The software vendor definitely has to do something to sweeten the deal. I feel like Adobe offers a lot of value for a $52.99 per month subscription. But a huge number of people disagree (and many of those in disagreement are stuck between a rock and hard place, forced to do business with Adobe since they're almost a monopoly of sorts).

Yes, they do. The question is do the really actually sweeten the deal in a substantial way? If it appears that they do for you, great.
 
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Bobby H

Arial Sucks.
WildWestDesigns said:
I can give you about 60 exceptions to that thought in a Facebook Help group (that has members from that company as well) alone for that very software. If there is that many, there are others that may not even know about that group (or don't even use FB at all). In some instances, that may be true, but they do sell to casual and individual users for their most expensive version. Their low end hobby version I think is around $1400, which is on par for any good low end package in this trade.

What is your point with this anecdote? Are you trying to say I have zero right to complain about what Corel is doing to change its upgrade policy for CorelDRAW? That I should just pay whatever the hell they want and be quiet? The story you tell above sure sounds 100% like that. This example you're providing totally undercuts your dislike for Adobe and its Creative Cloud setup. It's very obvious you've been avoiding them due to price. IIRC you don't even use any recent versions of CorelDRAW due to the activation setup that doesn't let you install the same license on a bunch of different computers.
 

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
What is your point with this anecdote? Are you trying to say I have zero right to complain about what Corel is doing to change its upgrade policy for CorelDRAW?

No, you have every right to complain. My point was that even though you thought that price was bad on total investment, some have it a lot worse.

That I should just pay whatever the hell they want and be quiet? The story you tell above sure sounds 100% like that.

No, if you don't like what they are charging, don't buy it. It's that simple. I have always stated in discussions like this, seek an alternative. Just go with Adobe alone if this gets you that much in a tizzy with DRAW.

I do, however, have a harder time with someone that complains and then still shells out money. For what they are charging, it still must be worth it, otherwise, y get it? If you are pretty much in vendor lockin, then ya, gotta pay what they charge.

Once programs start putting years on their products and saying they are coming out on a yearly cadence, writing is pretty much on the wall at that point. Time to think of an exit strategy.


This example you're providing totally undercuts your dislike for Adobe and its Creative Cloud setup. It's very obvious you've been avoiding them due to price.

Price plays a part. I made no bones about that. How many times have I told the story about it only taking 7 yrs to be saving money buying the perpetual license versus going subscription? That was upgrading every new release as well. I made no bones about that. I found it ironic when Adobe was offering both, their C/B only went 3 yrs out. 7 yrs is getting close to being here.

I also made no bones about a production computer with an internet connect (and I do believe some functionality from Adobe requires that all the time on their CC stuff, if I'm not mistaken, not just the once a month check in).

Control over the software. Again no bones about not liking the lesser amount of control that I have of Adobe software through this new cloud/subscription service (or any SaaS based software).

Factor in less control, connected to the internet and cost me more in the long run equals my not really liking Adobe.

I might also add, I have CS4, CS5 (I skipped 5.5) and CS6 Master Suites that I bought outright, no upgrade (didn't much care having to install the old version, then install the upgrade crap, that may have changed, but I wasn't taking that chance).

I have no problem with spending the money, it's the cost of doing business if it's worth it. It's the ancillary crap that gets me and then add on a higher price tag, no bueno.

I have absolutely no problem paying $15k for software as long as it still has value to me. It's not the same price tag with just less control for example. Although even then, this will probably be my last version of that software as I refuse to go to Win 10 (and it's not price at all, that's been well documented my issues with that).

IIRC you don't even use any recent versions of CorelDRAW due to the activation setup that doesn't let you install the same license on a bunch of different computers.

I don't use Corel period, it's not installed in my VMs, Adobe CS6 is, which stops me at 2 seats, so the amount of seats isn't an issue as I still use that (digitizing software is dongled, so it's only one seat, unless you get the network version (I hate to see that price)). Now, the last version that I ever messed with was X5 (that's probably what you are thinking and combining that with my use of portable production programs on Linux), but I have X5, X6 and X8 as it comes bundled with the same digitizing software (the digitizing software does come packaged with an older version of DRAW then what's currently available, so it's going to be behind even though the digitizing program may be newer).
 

Jim Hill

New Member
I have been using Affinity Designer for just a short time but to be honest with you I am blown away by this program.
It has everything plus a lot more then X-8 and so far the learning curve is easy.

Jim
 

Big Rice Field

Electrical/Architectural Sign Designer
I upgraded yesterday and they charged me $291.04 for the upgrade to version 2019, the yearly subscripton and some program called "Painter Essentiials 6" that was thrown is as a sales gimmick.

I got tired of Corel 2018 crashing and having to reset it so many times. They had me by the ba*&s and I had to throw up my hands and spend the money.
 

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
some program called "Painter Essentiials 6" that was thrown is as a sales gimmick.

It's been a long time since I looked at the CD, but I'm thinking Painter Essentials (a stripped down version of Corel Painter, much like Ps Elements and Pr Elements being stripped down versions) used to come bundled in with Wacom products. I'll have to see if I can find one of my old discs and see if I'm remembering correctly. Since what I'm using now has the Wacom driver baked in to the kernel, it's been a loooonnnnnggg time since I've had to look at the CD.

My mom loved Corel Painter (I think she actually didn't mind the stripped down version as well), but stopped using it when they only allowed for 1 seat per license. Used to be 2. Got her on Krita now.

I got tired of Corel 2018 crashing and having to reset it so many times. They had me by the ba*&s and I had to throw up my hands and spend the money.

They joys of having something on a yearly release cadence. It's hard enough to quash all of the bugs during a normal beta and RC phase, this just accelerates that. Everyone is on a rolling release schedule now, both OS and 3rd party software (if using Windows). The joys of being on the latest and "greatest".
 

Big Rice Field

Electrical/Architectural Sign Designer
I never aspired to be a "beta tester". But I guess now with once year releases we all become beta testers (sigh). I want software that works, and not waste time trying to work around bugs and problems with the programs.
 

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
I want software that works, and not waste time trying to work around bugs and problems with the programs.

While that is a nice goal to have, that isn't going to happen within any software. Not for everyone.

I remember some people complained about x6 being buggy on here. While I only used it for a few months, I never had any issues, especially not the ones that the others were talking about.

While it's a nice lofty goal to quash all bugs in beta, just doesn't happen that way. Just not going to happen in application. Best that you can hope for is that it's less buggy or you may be lucky and the hardware/firmware/workflow doesn't cause any bugs to appear after it gets out of beta.

Now, I'm not sure, haven't looked into it, but I'm willing to bet that MS has more software devs then most other software vendors. I've never known an update to not have bugs with them and I've been using MS products since DOS 3.2-3.3, right around in there (back then updates were re installations, so not many updates for us back then). If they haven't been able to master the frequent update process of Win 10, I doubt the smaller software vendors would be able to as well.

Things just slip through the cracks.

Despite that, despite knowing about the general instability of the latest and greatest (yes for some it doesn't affect negatively, but for quite a few it does), people still jump on that band wagon of latest and greatest, without giving it some time to mature before they then jump on it. I don't get it, especially in a production environment such as ours.

Especially when they want what you said above. That's just not the software paradigm that we are in (or in all honesty ever have been, just had more time to iron things out).

I could probably understand it more if there was more of an ability for a user to fix it on their end, so they aren't beholding to someone else to fix it (if they do, some fixes the vendors won't do). I could somewhat understand it then, especially with the rolling release model. Now not everyone can or wants to do that and that's fine, but at least have that option. Options are getting less and less in some corners of the software world.
 
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