James Burke
Being a grandpa is more fun than working
Book never written:
"Computers & Graphic Design" By Hu Needsa Skilz
JB
"Computers & Graphic Design" By Hu Needsa Skilz
JB
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"Crowd Source" design...
- Thread starter James Burke
- Start date
TheSnowman
New Member
I don't see what the problem is with this either...
Joe Diaz
New Member
Every time a person walks into your shop and expects you to do design or any preliminary work before they even decide to hire or pay you for your services, remember that feeling. Every time they take your quote and sketches and shop them around, remember that feeling. Every time a person walks in the door and tells you what your prices or terms should be, remember that feeling.
Crowd sourcing or spec work may not be the source of all those issues, however, it does help perpetuate the idea that creative people should do work first, and then only get paid if the "client" feels like it. So what's the problem? Well I guess that depends on perspective. I do know that I can't even attempt to count the numerous posts on this forum, where sign makers and designers complain about being taken advantage of or the lack of respect we sometimes get. What spec work really means is countless accumulated hours of creative work done for nothing. How do we expect our clients to value our time and expertise, if many in our industry don't?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsstOs-K7gk&feature=share
I think this sums it up nicely.
Crowd sourcing or spec work may not be the source of all those issues, however, it does help perpetuate the idea that creative people should do work first, and then only get paid if the "client" feels like it. So what's the problem? Well I guess that depends on perspective. I do know that I can't even attempt to count the numerous posts on this forum, where sign makers and designers complain about being taken advantage of or the lack of respect we sometimes get. What spec work really means is countless accumulated hours of creative work done for nothing. How do we expect our clients to value our time and expertise, if many in our industry don't?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsstOs-K7gk&feature=share
I think this sums it up nicely.
HulkSmash
New Member
It really is a giant sticker. An expensive one. Your 5 posts make no sense, sorry.
I compete every day with low ballers, and people who try to think outside the box to get business. As for those people who are hurt by an online crowd source site, you should remodel your marketing plan.
MichaelAlmand
New Member
Dan Antonelli
New Member
I find it amusing that we get a bit of traffic to our site from these places. When we go back and check the inbound link source, its to a contest, where the contest holder references our portfolio (say, retro, for example), and says 'We really like all the designs here (insert our link).' We're in the process of blocking all inbound links that originate from there, and other crowdsourcing sites. If they love our work that much - here's a thought: Hire us, and get it done right.
Dan Antonelli
New Member
Be very careful about this. So much of the 'original' logos presented are in fact clip art, or worse, belong to someone else's company. So if you're selling that client a 'logo' and it really belongs to another company, you're on the hook.
Just actually had a client first try this route. The work was pathetic. He saw the light, realized he wasted his money, and paid us very fair money for the brand we built.
lexsigns
New Member
BAHAAAAAAHHHAAAAA!!!! so thats where the clients are designing their own- ..
MichaelAlmand
New Member
Good point as well.
letterman7
New Member
I must be in the minority here. Just for kicks I signed up and entered one of the "contests". It's not that I have spare time or don't want to get paid for some time involved in creating a particular logo, I felt it was a good way to stretch some creative muscle and see what happens. And, the contest I submitted to happens to be a potential client not too terribly far from me, so if I win, I can solicit some sign business from them. There are always two sides to this coin...
R
R
g&eprinting
New Member
......
I joined 99designs and entered a few contest also. I figured maybe i can practice on my design skills and maybe win some $$$ if i'm lucky. I see nothing wrong with it. Kinda reminds me of signs101 and the old classroom assignments like this, but i haven't seen anything like that on here for a few years now, but i'm not on every day like i use to be.
Some people have over $1000 up in the contest for logos and other things. And like was mentioned by someone else, you can solicit some business.
If anything, i'd be mad at the vistaprint commercials showing up on television advertising business cards to banners.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiDxUOF8u08&list=UUMC4X5fvrGF7AnSoc5V10Lw&index=5&feature=plcp
Some people have over $1000 up in the contest for logos and other things. And like was mentioned by someone else, you can solicit some business.
If anything, i'd be mad at the vistaprint commercials showing up on television advertising business cards to banners.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiDxUOF8u08&list=UUMC4X5fvrGF7AnSoc5V10Lw&index=5&feature=plcp
ucmj22
New Member
This explains why designers get upset about Spec work.
Why spec work hurts designers and clients
Why spec work hurts designers and clients
Joe Diaz
New Member
You know instead of using crowd sourcing as an excuse to practice, in which case your practice perpetuates the idea to companies and individuals that a designers time isn't that valuable, perhaps instead you could spend that time building up your own portfolio with projects where you set the terms. Design a logo, brand or graphic on your own terms that really shows off your creative abilities. Experiment with themes you have never tried before. Working on your portfolio with those types of projects will pay off much more than crowd sourcing, and you won't participate in the devaluing of our industry.
IMO learning to be a graphic designer isn't just about learning how to design something, it's about learning the business as well. It's about selling the idea that the services we offer are valuable. It's about learning how to build relationships and communicating with your clients. Participating in Crowd souring is counterproductive to all of that.
IMO learning to be a graphic designer isn't just about learning how to design something, it's about learning the business as well. It's about selling the idea that the services we offer are valuable. It's about learning how to build relationships and communicating with your clients. Participating in Crowd souring is counterproductive to all of that.
signage
New Member
letterman7
New Member
I completely agree, Joe. But how many potential clients are willing to pay thousands of dollars for a logo anymore? Damn few, I imagine, when it comes right down to it. How many have come into your office and were actually willing to pay your price without some negotiations? I'm not knocking your talent or anyone else on the forum here - many of you guys and gals are far above where I should be at my age. But it comes down to a matter of survival - sites like 99 have people that don't give a crap about the value of a logo. They are only looking for something quick and cheap. If I can knock something out in under an hour and happen to "win" a couple hundred bucks, that's worth it to me. Devaluing the industry? Perhaps, but it's been happening for decades. Nowadays there are darn few companies, large or small, that give a whistle about what the sign industry or designers consider valuable time. Try to talk to them about that and those companies start shopping elsewhere.
And Justin... yes, the copyright is relinquished upon submission. How many clients do you have that you pushed the copyright issue with when you designed their sign/truck/whatever? I would speculate few to none, though I could be wrong (and often am). One advantage of a source like 99 is, though unlikely, that someone may actually see your work and commission you off-site, actually willing to pay to develop a concept.
And Justin... yes, the copyright is relinquished upon submission. How many clients do you have that you pushed the copyright issue with when you designed their sign/truck/whatever? I would speculate few to none, though I could be wrong (and often am). One advantage of a source like 99 is, though unlikely, that someone may actually see your work and commission you off-site, actually willing to pay to develop a concept.
Dan Antonelli
New Member
I know we're not in the sign industry anymore per se, but there's plenty of people who understand the value in a good brand, and will pay good money for it. We've made our business catering to the small business sector, and while many cannot afford us, there's more than enough who understand the value, and can dig deeper in their pockets. They first need to understand why they need to spend more money, and they need to educated. We think our site does a good job of communicating our value, and the way we market ourselves has helped. We've actually sold more in pure logo design sales this year to date than all of last year - and that's after a 20% price increase.
Logo design is a very specific niche of design. But a site like 99designs doesn't provide what we do, so I don't view them as competitors. We offer the strategy and marketing expertise that goes into a comprehensive brand approach - and that's something they do not.
Maybe not everyone needs it, or thinks they do. I'd argue otherwise.
TheSnowman
New Member
I don't claim to be a designer, but I sub stuff out to designers who do incredible work. I can't get people to order a THING if I charge them over $100 for any kind of layout work, or logos. I'm sure it's different everywhere, and there's a guy here in town who does work for free all day long design/printing at cost, so that's probably part of it, but no way can I get someone to shell out $1,000 for ANYTHING in this town.
C
ColoPrinthead
Guest
I couldn't agree more. Sites like 99 design do nothing but perpetuate the idea that design is something that should be cheap and is an easy skill. I'm a print operator largely due to the fact that I felt my designs were extremely undervalued and the horrible people I had designed for.
Now I choose my design projects when I feel like doing it, usually don't charge as high of a rate as I used to, and go all out when its time to get to work. So much more fun than designing 9-5 for people who have no appreciation, alter the design in ways that make me embarrassed to say it's my work, and generally have no frame of reference when it comes to things looking good </rant>.