Cure Time????

[Graphicdetailsinc]

We printed these images yesterday at around 10:30 and then mounted them in this poster picture frame around 4.

it looked like the image was sticking to the plastic lining in the poster frame so i thought i would remove it to laminate it.

this is what happened......

How long does it take for the ink to cure??

Printing on orical 3651 with orical's icc prifile ect. Also the black seems to be "pooling" if i turn it down the colors look wrong, its not streaking or leaking just looks heavy.

Thanks in advance

Josh

 

[GK]

We printed these images yesterday at around 10:30 and then mounted them in this poster picture frame around 4.

it looked like the image was sticking to the plastic lining in the poster frame so i thought i would remove it to laminate it.

this is what happened......

How long does it take for the ink to cure??

Printing on orical 3651 with orical's icc prifile ect. Also the black seems to be "pooling" if i turn it down the colors look wrong, its not streaking or leaking just looks heavy.

Thanks in advance

Josh

The problem sounds like it lies in your ink limits and color profiling. If your black looks extremely dense and possibly muddy its because it is using too much of each of the colors to make that rich black color, happens all the time with "canned" profiles from the manufacturer. Get that taken care of and your prints will be dry to the touch very quickly (but you should still let them outgas for 24 hours if they are going to be a longterm print)

 

[Gino]

George is exactly on the mark. We’ve noticed also that when trying to create straight black from OEM profiles, they are always putting down too much ink. Therefore, even though it might feel dry to the touch, they aren't thoroughly dry and properly knitted to the substrate. It kinda forms puddles that are unseen by your eyes, but when trapped behind a lam or another substrate… tend to create problems later on. We sometimes wait a day or two before mounting.

Another problem that creates this is telling your customer they can have this stuff too quickly. At most any given time, we are backlogged for a month or two and have to schedule most projects. This would allow you to print something and let it sit for days before you need to get it out the door. Proper planning and giving your customer’s realistic timeframes will help this situation if you don’t have the capability of creating your own profiles to eliminate this problem beforehand.

 

[bob]

What are you using for black? For vector objects you should be using 100%K, no C, no M, no Y. Some folk endorse a 10-20%C,M, and Y in addition to 100%K for black but this should be reserved for bitmap objects, not spot colors.

If you use a spot black that's anything more than 100%K you'll experience those unpleasant pools of ink on the print. Worse those pools are sufficiently thick so as to be questionably bonded to the media. Ink wants to saturate and become one with the media, not simply sit on top of it as a coating.

People who hold that a 100%K spot black is not sufficient have a somewhat less than vice-like grasp of the nature of color, inks, and printing.

As far as drying, develop a feel for the finger glide test. This is where you lightly, that's lightly, glide your fingertips across the print and feel the stare of cure. It's a learned thing and there are no instructions, it's just a feel that anyone in possession of a set of reasonably normal fingers can develop.

 

[Graphicdetailsinc]

i did the finger glide test, and everything seemed fine. I even drug my finger across an area of the print i knew would be covered by the frame with enough pressure to move the vinyl on the liner.

 

[jiarby]

I like "Army Black" 20-20-20-100, so I must not understand color... but it looks richer to me than 100-K

To me it sounds like a profile problem. Limits too high, temp too low, etc...

 

[Compilla]

What are you using for black? For vector objects you should be using 100%K, no C, no M, no Y. Some folk endorse a 10-20%C,M, and Y in addition to 100%K for black but this should be reserved for bitmap objects, not spot colors.

If you use a spot black that's anything more than 100%K you'll experience

What do you recommend for Bitmaps in order to get a rich black ?
When I print Black Vectors they came up just fine. I recently purchase the Aurora Fills I print them out and they came out all washed out looking.
Just a problem with bitmap stuff, same thing if I open a photo shop file.

How do you have your software set to handle bitmaps?
I set the Rendering Intent to Perceptual

If I increase the Ink limits looks very grainy

Any thoughts on this ?

Thanks!!

Flexi 8.1
FO48"

 

[Cy Fan]

The heavier the color the longer you will need to let it dry. A heavy black like you have sould sit a least a day. As said before there probably is a profile issue, but if you have a profile that gives you the print quality you like I know it can be a hassle trying to mess with it. Just allow yourself more dry time. Typically you shouldn't need more that a day to day-n-a half depending on the print. And what you have there would need the max dry time.

 

[GK]

You could always pick up an Infrared heater or 2 and put them in front of the prints, that will definitely help drying times.

 

[bigpix]

Let it Dry/Outgas

We always wait at least 24 hours on heavy ink coverage jobs before mounting or laminating, especially on white films for tradeshows since these are almost always rolled into the exhibit case. We try to print them at night, let them dry the entire next day, and do finishing work day after that.

 

[Jackpine]

Wait 24 hours to outgas.

 

[gabagoo]

i have never had success running 100% k only under any profile on banners or vinyl. I would love to know how you do it? Black is the most expensive colour for me to produce.

 

[Techman]

the ink is not dry and it stuck to the frame. Heavy applications sometimes will never get a hard dry finish.
A good example is the ink spilled on the floor. It just lays there with a nice hard skin on top but never really dry under that upper skin.

It stays soft plastic like.

 

[bob]

i have never had success running 100% k only under any profile on banners or vinyl. I would love to know how you do it? Black is the most expensive colour for me to produce.

It has to do with rendering intents for non-bitmap objects. First change your black to 100%k, and 0%CMY. Then If you specify a rendering intent for everything but bitmaps as, in descending order of preference, 'No Color Correction', 'Spot', ' or 'Saturation' this tends to avoid or at least severely limit processing these items through whatever profile you might be using. Black for these object will be black. At last as black as the quality of the black ink you're using permits. Which is usually pretty good, black is black.

In general, this is a Good Thing. But it does warrant printing a full Pantone chart on each of the various media you'll be using. Then you work form that, not from whatever you might see on your monitor. It takes a little getting used to, but your colors will be consistent and predictable.

Specify 'Perceptual' for bitmaps, and let the profile work its magic. You'll find that on bitmaps the black is whatever the profile ends up saying it is which, usually, lays down too much ink for my tastes but I can live with it and it's not worth diddling.

When printing, not paying a whole hell of a lot of attention to what you might see on a monitor is good practice. You can use soft proof or whatever your software calls it to get a clue, but that's still not gospel. The problem is that with a monitor white is, or can be, true white, but black is whatever color the monitor might be when it's turned off. Which is dark but not black. Just the opposite holds when printing where white is whatever color the media might be but black is true black.

 

[Graphicdetailsinc]

looks like new store policy is going to be no back mounted posters unless they are laminated!

 

[gabagoo]

I can see that being good if I am printing a black and white banner, so I will try a sample as you have suggested to see. Thanks