Question Customer refuses to pay, can I take his graphics down?

[TimToad]

We get everything in writing. Account managers are not allowed to proceed with work unless we get a written approval. We have pics of all of the completed graphics.

I think our 1st line of attack is going to be contacting headquarters and making sure the local owner knows that we have contacted them. We will let them know we are not impressed and that we want to warn other people and businesses of the owners shady dealings. I hope that will be enough to get them to pressure the owner into paying up

2nd we will send them to collections if we have to. We don't have time for court. We would lose more money than we would gain just from potential lost work from not being here.

Thanks for the input everyone. Much appreciated!

Most civil courts offer mediation. If you have signatures, contracts, sales orders, signed proofs, any documentation you're on the right side of collecting.

If its a franchise business model, I would only involve the headquarters in a very innocent way as to asking if the business in question is independently owned. You don't want a defamation suit mucking things up if the parent company is as shady as he is.

 

[MikePro]

OTF isn't shady, I have installed many locations here in the Midwest and never had a problem collecting BUT we get everything in writing on the front-end, down-payment or we never show up in the first place. Sorry but not sorry. Its not like we NEED the $$$ to get-going, but it begins the paper/money trail to solidify your case in the event of a dirtbag client that wants to use your business as their credit-extension (*cough* M*nards).
The only threats you can ACTUALLY throw at them, is that your $500/hr attorney will soon be contacting them to add $$$ lines to the invoice of their outstanding balance.

 

[ikarasu]

We get everything in writing. Account managers are not allowed to proceed with work unless we get a written approval. We have pics of all of the completed graphics.

I think our 1st line of attack is going to be contacting headquarters and making sure the local owner knows that we have contacted them. We will let them know we are not impressed and that we want to warn other people and businesses of the owners shady dealings. I hope that will be enough to get them to pressure the owner into paying up

2nd we will send them to collections if we have to. We don't have time for court. We would lose more money than we would gain just from potential lost work from not being here.

Thanks for the input everyone. Much appreciated!

Every province has different procedures. But in BC... Anyone can open a small claims case against anyone. It's a $150 fee to open a claim in BC... then a few bucks to serve the notice / etc. They'll get the notice of the claim.. and they can respond to it, by either paying you before the date... or going to court to fight it. The court date is set... You go in, and it's a 30-60 minute process. If theyre found in the wrong... They pay you the damages you the $5000... you can tack on some hourly wages for fighting if you want, depending on the judge you get it. AND they pay all the court fees / costs you just paid. If you're smart your invices should say Payment due xx days after completion of work, with an interest rate for late payments.

If theyre smart they will pay it. They have until XX date... If they don't follow through, you pay a $100 fee to have the local police come and start seizing assets.

The limit in your province is $30,000. The fees might be different - But usually just getting the letter that they're being taken to court will force them to pay. They know they owe it, you have proof they owe it... So they'll pay rather than going to court and having it all on record, and pay a lot more in fees / penalties.

It sounds daunting like it'll cost you more than its worth... But honestly it's much better than going to a collection agency and paying them an absorbent fee. It's a clear cut case for a judge, if it goes to court... which it likely wont, it shouldn't take longer than the judge asking why they havent paid, and telling them too bad they have until XX date.

 

[CanuckSigns]

I'm in Ontario, but we had to threaten to take a construction company to court to get paid.

We had a client who was a lawyer, he drafted up a letter of demand for us, it just said pay us by this date or we will take you to small claims court. They ignored it so we paid $100 to file with small claims, and an extra $150 to have the paperwork served to their head office. They called our lawyer 2 hours later and offered to pay the amount on the invoice, our lawyer told them there was 18 months of interest, court fees, process server fees and his fee as well, we ended up getting paid in 3 days for everything.

One thing to note, in Ontario (and possibly Sask.) Corporations can not represent themselves in small claims court, so the construction company would need to pay a lawyer to go to court, which would cost more then the debt most likely.

 

[fine point]

We had a job with a hipster cafe with 2 entitle Restaurateurs who kept ignoring us.
Went on for 9 months them kept telling "I was away, I will pay you when I come back in town".
I got fed up and hired a collection agency 2 weeks ago. They paid up like a chump right away, but I am now stuck with the fee for the collection agent, about $1200.

It was worth it.

 

[rossmosh]

Walk in the door. Tell them you're here to get paid.

It's way harder to ignore someone when they're right in front of you. It's very easy to ignore a phone call or email.

 

[Gino]

Walk in the door. Tell them you're here to get paid.

It's way harder to ignore someone when they're right in front of you. It's very easy to ignore a phone call or email.

Funny you say that. I had one about 25 years ago, where the guy still owed me about $3,500 or so and I said I'm coming out to collect it. It was about a mile from our old shop. Got there and asking to see Mr Kirk and the receptionist was acting all kindsa goofy. Hemming and hawing and telling me he was out and when I said I'd wait, she said well, he won't be back today, anymore. So, I thanked her, left my card and told her I'd be back the next day. When I got back to the shop, had a message from the girl at the desk, saying she was so-o-o-o sorry, but the guy was standing right next to me and she would've lost her job as he was giving her hand signals and she didn't wanna lie, but she didn't wanna lose her job, either. I thanked her for the call and now I knew who he was by sight. Called the next day and said I will be right in and the check was at the front desk with a different girl. The guy lost his job as 'CONTROLLER' and allmended well.

 

[visual800]

First off I have to wonder why corporate was not involved in this? Where did you get graphics from? Were they corporate approved?

Call corporate and get them involved. Second I would go to social media and express what a rat he is and then if none of that worked I would remove my graphics film it and put that on social media. If you want to see someone straighten up slander them on social media, now some of them are going to threaten you with legal action but they wont and a high number of people will pay you to remove it

 

[BigfishDM]

I would rip it down and worry about the consequence later, at the end of the day the customer knows he screwed you. Not recommended, but sometimes you have to make stuff right on your own.

 

[spectrum maine]

WORKMANS LEIN

 

[JTBoh]

Go Here:
https://www.orangetheoryfitness.com/contact-us

Then click on Press Inquiries.
Inform them that their recent expansion into your area had some issues.
Also inform them that you've had no luck with the corporate office, and keep getting redirected to nowhere. Shameful way to do business for an international company.
Mention that how for a small time shop like you, $5000 is a lot of money, and barring any other recourse, you may just have to contact local TV and newspapers with your story to help drum up support to cover your bills.

Asymmetrical warfare - nothing lights a fire under someones tuckus like the wrath of a corporate god in fear of looking bad.

Then - pay for a membership at the gym and laugh and laugh and laugh.

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

Funny you say that. I had one about 25 years ago, where the guy still owed me about $3,500 or so and I said I'm coming out to collect it. It was about a mile from our old shop. Got there and asking to see Mr Kirk and the receptionist was acting all kindsa goofy. Hemming and hawing and telling me he was out and when I said I'd wait, she said well, he won't be back today, anymore. So, I thanked her, left my card and told her I'd be back the next day. When I got back to the shop, had a message from the girl at the desk, saying she was so-o-o-o sorry, but the guy was standing right next to me and she would've lost her job as he was giving her hand signals and she didn't wanna lie, but she didn't wanna lose her job, either. I thanked her for the call and now I knew who he was by sight. Called the next day and said I will be right in and the check was at the front desk with a different girl. The guy lost his job as 'CONTROLLER' and allmended well.

I worked for a guy when I was first starting out who did almost the exact same thing. He told the office manager to call the customer and tell them to have a check ready or he was pulling down the signs and graphics. It worked. They had a check waiting. They also said a few unkind things, but at that point the relationship was already so soured, I don't think there was any saving it.

 

[BALLPARK]

I would send emails to their board members starting with the CEO or President. If you have not received a response and it's past 30 days from the due date.

Include:
Pictures of the project.
Timeline from the start to the completion of the project.
Be accurate on all accounts as to when you sent the invoice and how you have not heard anything back.

Always be professional and to the point. Just let them know that you are reaching out to them as you have not heard anything back from one of their locations and ask them to please look into the billing of the invoice for payment.

dcarney@orangetheoryfitness.com
david.carney@orangetheoryfitness.com
david@orangetheoryfitness.com

Perhaps let them know that you enjoyed working on their project and hope to do so in the future. One bad franchisee should not scare you away from working with their company. Keep the convo positive and chances are they will make sure it's taken care of from either a corporate or franchisee level.
...

I would suggest to have a lawyer let you know the max penalty you can put on your invoices for late payments. Then make sure that is displayed on your invoices. That will surely help when you send out Late / Invoices that have a new balance from the late fees.

...

Sorry to hear there is an issue with their company on the payment. Good luck!

 

[Bobas Kalobas]

Once they are installed they belong to whomever owns the walls or rents them. You no longer own them, once they are out of your grasp. It now becomes a civil matter and you need to bring the law into it. It's not normal for anyone to trust for $5,000, but that's your decision. If you even threaten to take them down, they will play right into your bluff, because they probably know you can't and could be arrested on the spot for many illegal actions, which I think are pretty much the same up there as down here. Put all your paperwork together and contact a lawyer and take it to court. Unless you can strong-arm them, you are gonna hafta either just eat it or sit tight for a long wait.

Most civil courts offer mediation. If you have signatures, contracts, sales orders, signed proofs, any documentation you're on the right side of collecting.

If its a franchise business model, I would only involve the headquarters in a very innocent way as to asking if the business in question is independently owned. You don't want a defamation suit mucking things up if the parent company is as shady as he is.

Went to the police station and asked what to do....We were allowed to remove our unpaid MDO signs from our customers building and sign structure in NJ as long as we did it during closed hours. If there was a confrontation then we just call the police. but, we took down a few thousand dollars worth of signs at a bus station and then we took them to court for payment, and they had to pay us again to re-install them and also paid the balance. Not sure what they do up there. But, I have told several customers that were late or not paying the balance, that I am heading there to come get my unpaid property and some how they come up with the money.

 

[Gino]

With that kinda thinking, if someone puts a new furnace in your house and you don't pay it, they can come back and take it out ?? Or a septic system ?? Or a roof ??

Why would the Police say to do it after hours ??

Just becasue you couldn't collect the money, does not give you the authority to take someone else's property down.... paid for or not. I don't doubt it happened, but that cannot be the legal way of getting someone to pay, just because you couldn't collect it the first time around. I've never heard that in my lofe. Not saying I didn't want to do it already, but have been warned by MANY, that is illegal. Hmmm.

 

[Billct2]

I don't think the cops knew what they were talking about. At a place I worked we went out and took down some sandblasted signs at night.
The next day the cops were at the shop investigating the theft. We had them hidden and said nothing.They said if we got caught we would be arrested,
Now there are cameras everywhere, lot harder to be unseen.

 

[unclebun]

They come get your car when you don't pay, don't they? If the signs are outside and can be easily removed, I don't see how it's any different than hooking up and towing your car away in the middle of the night.

In this case, the OP seems to have stuck wall graphics onto interior walls. That's a whole 'nother kettle of fish.

 

[Gino]

The laws on the repo for a vehicle have nothing to do with someone not paying for a sign.... or signs. Car repo has documents signed by everyone for lease or financing and if you default, they can take it. Better yet, they can sell it at an auction and if they don't get what you paid, you're STILL on the hook. I highly doubt anyone here gets the same kinda paperwork signed when sign transactions take place.

 

[ikarasu]

You can't physically go get it yourself. You can get a writ judgment that allows you.to employ a reposessor to go get it... As well as reposessing enough to cover your fees.

You could barge in and grab them. But why risk jail time and a theft charge? They owe you money... Not the signs. It's not your property anymore.

Just because they're doing some shady shit doesn't mean you should also. If you have the proper documentation, which unless your a complete idiot doing $5000 jobs with no sign offs or written invoices.... It's really simple to goto small claims and get a lien placed on the business if they refuse to pay.

Sounds like OP has all the poet trail needed. No point in complicating things... Collection agency to make it someone else's problem, or small claims to deal with it yourself. I wouldn't even consider another venue.

Heck.... Even posting the company name in this thread could get you into trouble, and be more of a headache than the 5k is worth.

 

[ikarasu]

They come get your car when you don't pay, don't they? If the signs are outside and can be easily removed, I don't see how it's any different than hooking up and towing your car away in the middle of the night.

In this case, the OP seems to have stuck wall graphics onto interior walls. That's a whole 'nother kettle of fish.

Afaik a judge needs to sign off on a repossession. You can't just go gra. The vehicle without legal paperwork allowing you to do so.