Discussion Customers

[Geneva Olson]

So in the past week we have had 3 customers change designs and graphics up to (thankfully) we begin printing. When it gets to that point we have been able to tell them "This is your last change". They have been fine with it.
This last one, I finally told my partner that if he makes another change we are going to start charging him.
These are changes in designs, or wording or colors.
They have also already paid,so they ARE committed. But I wanted to ask you seasoned vets how you handle these customers? At what point do you cut it off and say, "that's it, man. no more." I refuse to get to the point where we are cutting or printing and they make a change, but I'm anticipating that one next.

 

[iPrintStuff]

I mean we charge design based on time. Make as many changes as you want.

Then after sign off (we make them sign a sheet electronically) it’s their problem if I’ve pressed print already.

If you’re already printing/finishing they pay for a reprint. Simple as that.

 

[Gino]

Ya need to have that in writing up front, before you accept money and the customer needs to sign and date it. Verbally is fine, but Black & White is absolutely needed. You can't throw something like that at them, after you're sick & tired of making changes.

 

[Boudica]

For us, if the artwork is approved, consider it printed. If I really have already printed it, your going to have to pay for that and a reprint.
We get some last minute changes "have you printed that yet?!" and sometimes they get lucky and have a chance to give me new artwork. Other times, they get to buy it twice. I'm pretty darn quick to get things into production, so most of the time they get to pay twice.

 

[Jeremiah]

How expensive of a job is this ? That changes our reaction to changes.

 

[Geneva Olson]

Ya need to have that in writing up front, before you accept money and the customer needs to sign and date it. Verbally is fine, but Black & White is absolutely needed. You can't throw something like that at them, after you're sick & tired of making changes.

So,what is your "in writing" limit? is it 3 revisions? once half is paid it goes into production so no turning back?

 

[Gino]

It's whatever you want it to be. You just need to have yur policies and payment terms understood 100% before commencing any part of the job. They need to be signed and dated, to be sure there's no misunderstanding. Having a discussion like this after the fact, I would make it your responsibility to do anything and everything they ask..... as your quote probably just said about design and fabrication..... nothing to do with computer time for whatever else was done in between.

 

[FireSprint.com]

I think this has to do with the style of shop you are. There are shops out there that provide the highest level of customer service, and they charge for it. These shops might stop a job even after it's started printing to help the customer. These shops also weed out alot of BS with higher prices. Other shops are a little more rigid, and their pricing is more competitive. Choose your customer first, then answers to questions like this are much easier.

Which are you?

 

[Robert Armerding]

I think this has to do with the style of shop you are. There are shops out there that provide the highest level of customer service, and they charge for it. These shops might stop a job even after it's started printing to help the customer. These shops also weed out alot of BS with higher prices. Other shops are a little more rigid, and their pricing is more competitive. Choose your customer first, then answers to questions like this are much easier.

Which are you?

From my perspective, FireSprint.com reply makes a lot of sense. I especially like the idea of "Choose your customer first." And, the kinds of questions you ask is so important. And then, the listening to the answers is even more important.

 

[Boudica]

we don't have a revision limit per se, but if time is of the essence, you (the customer) need to get it together or you won't get it on time.

 

[Gino]

From my perspective, FireSprint.com reply makes a lot of sense. I especially like the idea of "Choose your customer first." And, the kinds of questions you ask is so important. And then, the listening to the answers is even more important.

Robert, I think in these kinds of situations, the customer is gonna be asking the questions. You're the one gonna be answering why you're charging more or making up rules as you go along. Nothing really for you to listen to, except a buncha rigmarole which should've been outlined beforehand. Listening here, will get ya in trouble. Wrong place to be listening. Sorry.

 

[Pixels Are Bad Mmmkay?]

So in the past week we have had 3 customers change designs and graphics up to (thankfully) we begin printing. When it gets to that point we have been able to tell them "This is your last change". They have been fine with it.
This last one, I finally told my partner that if he makes another change we are going to start charging him.
These are changes in designs, or wording or colors.
They have also already paid,so they ARE committed. But I wanted to ask you seasoned vets how you handle these customers? At what point do you cut it off and say, "that's it, man. no more." I refuse to get to the point where we are cutting or printing and they make a change, but I'm anticipating that one next.

I don't understand how jobs are almost going to print without design approval. Am I missing something here? Are you saying the customer does approve the design, but then throws another design revision at you after the fact anyway?

 

[2B]

Depending on the project, the disclaimer wording changes.
here is one of the "blanket" disclaimers that have to be signed along with the digital proof BEFORE production will start.

 

[Geneva Olson]

I don't understand how jobs are almost going to print without design approval. Am I missing something here? Are you saying the customer does approve the design, but then throws another design revision at you after the fact anyway?

Yea. A customer came in. We mocked up his graphic for his truck right in front of him.He signed paperwork, and approved the artwork, and pays his half down. We get him in the schedule for a week from now (We are booked up a week-10 days in advance). He starts emailing and calling and stating he wants the lettering to be red instead of yellow. And he wants to stick to the original design because he's gone home and realized his buddy who died designed the graphic and he wants to honor him.

I have another one who came in and said, "oh hey, you have chrome? Can I put chrome instead of color shift on the logo?"
Then another guy calls right before we start cutting and says, "oh hey, instead of free inspection can it read finance available?"

ALL of them have signed off on paperwork and paid half down. I see a trend and want to lock them in. It looks like I am going to have to add wording in to include, once a design is accepted, that's it or you pay for new reprint or replot work.

 

[Geneva Olson]

we don't have a revision limit per se, but if time is of the essence, you (the customer) need to get it together or you won't get it on time.

I think this is where I am at. We put the design together, they approve and sign paperwork and then call back and say, "oh hey, can I make a change". At some point these guys have to get it together.

 

[Geneva Olson]

It's whatever you want it to be. You just need to have yur policies and payment terms understood 100% before commencing any part of the job. They need to be signed and dated, to be sure there's no misunderstanding. Having a discussion like this after the fact, I would make it your responsibility to do anything and everything they ask..... as your quote probably just said about design and fabrication..... nothing to do with computer time for whatever else was done in between.

m
The only thing missing from my paperwork (apparently) is the artwork clause. I will be adding this in this evening.

 

[rossmosh]

Do not do artwork mock-ups in front of customers at the counter and treat them as final approvals. You're creating the problem here. Not the customer. You're putting them on the spot to approve things without thinking it through and they might feel pressured or uncomfortable to criticize your work. On top of that, the customer will assume changes/tweaks aren't a big deal because you just worked up the artwork right in front of them. Why should it be a big deal to make 2-3 small changes?

Do a rough drawing. Get their money. Tell them you'll sit down and do a proper layout and email them a proof in X days. Then sit down and create your proof. Send it out. Let them review and approve it.

As for your revision process. Everyone is different. Personally, I do 2-3 small revisions included in the price. Reworking artwork completely or changes beyond the 2-3 revisions I charge or threaten to charge. Depends on the situation.

 

[Stacey K]

Don't hem and haw and just agree to it, manipulate the situation in your favor - never squander an opportunity to provide exceptional service. This might sound a little "Robert-ish" but it has worked for me in the past...

1. Typically, we would charge xxx for changes like this so late in the process but I understand your wanting to make this change so we are going to waive the change fee of xxx. I really think it's great you are honoring your partner like this, I love the idea and I'm happy to make this change without extra cost this time.
2. Well, we usually don't keep chrome in stock, but we have some left from another job. Typically we would charge xxx extra for a special order vinyl but I will just charge you the difference in cost (if there's no difference, who cares, add $10 to the bill if you want).
3. (a little line of sh*t here) Let me check with production to see if they already have this cut. If they do, I will have to charge for the recut. (pretend to check or call them back) It's your lucky day! We didn't cut it yet. Typically, we would charge xxx for a change like this so late in the process but I'm going to cut you a break since you have been so easy to work with on this project.

This allows the customer their change at little to no cost AND lets them know the consequences for next time. And next time they pull this - Oh sorry, we will have to charge you this time as we are in our peak season. Oh sorry, we don't have that in stock so there's a xxx charge, unlike last time. Oh sorry, we have the vinyl cut already, unlike last time, I will have to charge you.

 

[Eforcer]

As far back as I could remember. John Giles was a consultant in Quick Print magazine, saying how the graphics dept. is a black hole. I treat it as a black hole(OIL) myself. As soon as I see a project I tell them its going to cost you X amount. I love when I hear can you do it for less? Ah no, I don't tell my employees to work for less. Stand your ground. We give as many revisions you want cause, they will be charge for it. Anytime you want a change I have to print proofs I charge.

Let them know in advance that its a $min. If you have 3 or more changes it will cost you $....

The key is to make sure it's a quality client and they understand.



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[JetPress]

We take a 50% deposit upfront before we start working on a proof and revisions are based on time. If it happens they have revisions and time left over for what they paid then it goes towards that. If it's a complicated design we tend to show them a work in progress to see if we're going in the right direction. I hate to spend a lot of time and then it is nothing that the customer has envision. The more information and direction we can get from the customer the less time we are spending trying to guess what they want.

It has happened where someone jumped the gun, approves a design then changes their mind the next day and say they want to change colors or fonts. We'll make the change but if its already printed then they have to pay extra for a reprint. We always tell them upfront and in our emails to not approve anything until they are 100% sure it is what they want.