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Digital Magnetic?

Discussion in 'Digital Printing' started by Colin, Jun 6, 2012.

  1. Colin

    Colin Major Contributor

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    I just saw some "digital magnetic" material on Proveer's site. I assume that you print directly onto it, as opposed to printing on vinyl, and then applying to mag. Anybody had any experience with it? (I'd be using my Roland SP540i)
     
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  2. Wiggum PI

    Wiggum PI Member

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    Yep, all bad...forget you ever saw it lol
     
  3. Colin

    Colin Major Contributor

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    Could you explain why?
     
  4. Mosh

    Mosh Major Contributor

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    All I know it is way easier to print and appy to mag, been there done that....
     
  5. Colin

    Colin Major Contributor

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    Why is it easier when you can print directly to the mag?
     
  6. Wiggum PI

    Wiggum PI Member

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    too heavy, cutting is a nightmare if at all possible, print quality is crap(possibly from not being able to get enough heat) as the ink just seemed to pool on top and forget about any fine detail.
    Might have just been me, but I gave up on the stuff. Was using a VP 540..
     
  7. Colin

    Colin Major Contributor

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    I would foresee cutting by hand, but I can see how the lack of heat would be an issue. Maybe that's why they make it so thin.
     
  8. Colin

    Colin Major Contributor

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    While we're at it, how the heck can the various on-line places offer fridge magnets so cheap? 1000 business card size for $150 - $250!
     
  9. Malkin

    Malkin Very Active Member

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    I also found the print quality to be abysmal.
    Secondly it had to be baby sat to avoid head strikes, which are pretty nasty with that heavy material.
    Thirdly it took too long to get setup to run properly.

    Nearly every mag job ends up being easier to print&stick.
     
  10. Malkin

    Malkin Very Active Member

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    Pretty crummy quality stock, some can barely hold themselves to the fridge, and they are trimmed out by machine just like regular paper cards.
    Stouse offers 2 thicknesses, get the thicker ones.
     
  11. Colin

    Colin Major Contributor

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    1000 is 24' of 24" wide mag. That's like 24 12"x24" vehicle mags (12 pair), and the fridge mags take much longer to make with all the cutting, so if priced based on material use and labor, fridge magnets seem like a lost cause, because nobody will pay that much for them; instead opting for the on-line cheapies.
     
  12. MassSign&Decal

    MassSign&Decal New Member

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    Digital Mags - Not always trouble

    Mags WILL be a royal pain to run through a print/cut IF the weight is too high (stock too thick).

    Don't run anything higher than the .15- to .20mil range. If you're doing truck mags, and you're not running them through the Gerber, you'll have to go with the light-weight stock to run it through the Roland. Gerbers afford a different option with dye-sub, so the stock thickness isn't a real problem for their production methods.

    The reason the head hits is two-fold: 1) Head height - adjust to the highest setting; and 2) Blade depth - recess the blade or remove it all together for the print process.

    Again, for a Roland environment, do not run anything heavier than the .20mil. Just because you can, doesn't always mean you should. Like the other post said, you would have to 'baby' the job all the way through and that may make it 'not worth the price of admission'.

    Also, remember that the overall material size translates to overall weight and resistance on the motors. Larger the dims, more resistance. More resistance, more strain. More strain, less accuracy, more walking. Eventually this filters out to loss of stock, time, money, and possible printer damage. Also translates to many four-letter words that you should never repeat in public.

    Heat: I've found that if you're cutting when the printer is still 'Hot', you're asking for trouble and distortion. The cutting is something you really need to balance with your stock and operating environment - heat, humidity, blade offset, cut speed, take-up speed, cut-line. The works.

    The stock weights for mags that hold up to the speed of the highway...not that any of us 'speed'...will come in at .30mil or more. Do not run these through your printer. You may get away with it a few times, but you'll soon get cocky and the process will bite you when you can't afford the downtime. Not that that has ever happened with me. Nope. Never.

    That's my unsought .02Cents based on first-hand experience running these machines.
     
  13. SignManiac

    SignManiac Major Contributor

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    The few we do are printed on the flatbed instead. Faster and no issues.
     
  14. jfiscus

    jfiscus Adobe Shinobi

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    The quality of the print is crap from when I've tried to do it. Always been runny & seemed like the surface was contaminated; probably because the magnetic backer sits on the face. it is also hard to get the machine to pull it correctly & you do NOT want a headstrike on it. I've always just printed on quality material and applied it to the magnetic.

    The fridge magnets you get online are printed on digital offset presses; same as business cards. They are not exterior grade (water based inks). Also, only the thicker magnetic is designed for vehicle usage, the thinner stuff does not have enough magnetic "pull" to stay on a vehicle. Even the thicker ones blow off a lot on vehicle sides; especially if the surface is not flat.
     
  15. Wheeler

    Wheeler Member

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    If you do try printing it , Print with head on high and don't use media clamps. Use high quality print. I think I used Generic Vinyl III - profile and looked good. I have tried scoring the magnet and breaking them apart and worked okay for the first row but after that the cut would get off. Roll the magnet off where it is not pulling it off of the roll. Use 3 pinch rollers. I have read that 60 degree blades are the best for magnets.

    I usually just cut with a straight edge and round the corners. I think some Versacamms are made with aluminum and some with metal.. Mine is aluminum and the magnet doesn't stick to the printer. Baby sit the printer cause I have had the print head rub on the magnet usually on the edges. Scary
     
  16. Colin

    Colin Major Contributor

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    Thanks for the replies.

    MassSign&Decal: As I said in post #7, I would not attempt to cut the mag material on the machine, I'd cut 'em by hand with a rule. I'm also just speaking about using this stuff for fridge magnets, not vehicle mags.

    BTW, what would you guys charge for 1000 2"x3.5" fridge magnets? (Printed on vinyl, applied onto the heavier .030 mag) That's 24' of 24" mag, and of course 24' of 24" vinyl.
     
  17. J Hill Designs

    J Hill Designs Major Contributor

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    it wouldnt be printed in my shop. I would get a quote from a wholesaler and mark it up.
     
  18. MikeD

    MikeD Active Member

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    Most roll feed printers aren't designed to pull that much weight off of a roll.
    Also, as stated above, the heat transfer of magnetic material isn't great so the print quality will suffer.
    When the material gets under the print head, it has memory of being on it's core. If it isn't relaxed at that point there may be head scrapes and possibly strikes. Beside the scrapes, if the gap between the head and the substrate isn't constant and flat, there may be some pass-to-pass mis-registration when printing bi-directionally.
    If you're able to get past that point, the next issue is the same as the first; weight. The printer isn't designed to push that weight, so there sill be heavy banding.
    Moving onto cutting, most roll-to-roll plotters aren't designed to carry that weight either. If the plotter is strong enough; there is a chance that the heavy banding issue will throw the cutting off due to the print being shorter than the cut data being sent to the plotter. If you can get the ink onto the material at good quality, cut it with a flatbed.
    In both printing and cutting, it's easier with flatbed printers and plotters. The grit rollers on roll-to-roll machines get clogged up very easily. That will result in slippage and more banding and print distortion. Slippage on the plotting end will obviously throw off print-to-cut registration.
    Mounting a vinyl print to mag is easier and the equipment takes up less floor space in your shop. Flatbeds tend to cost more as well.

    Good Luck!
     
  19. Malkin

    Malkin Very Active Member

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    We don't do them too often, but just last week I did 250 2"x4" mags, print/lam/mounted to .030 mag, for $1.32 each, as part of a larger order.

    You can cut them up pretty fast with the right planning and technique, and it helps if the background is a consistent solid color.
     
  20. otctech

    otctech Member

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    We print on magnet all the time without issue. Set head height to high, adjust feed calibration, and get your blade depth/pressure set and let it run.
     
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