Dirt Bike Graphics

[heyskull]

I'm not running cheap equipment.
All I can say the Mutoh SC1400D (my machine) is not up to cutting Convex laminated.
It destroyed the Y axis pulley and belt.
Comparing it to the Roland GX-300 which has 350 grams of pressure and the Mutoh SC1400D with 450 grams.
The Mutoh should be the better machine, but still struggled cutting through laminated prints.

I do agree in buying a printer that exceeds your needs.
When buying our current printer, a Mutoh 1604 (6 years old now!) we also considered the 1204 but looking back you should always buy bigger and better and it has paid of.
Would now like a metallic and white option but the Mutoh 1604 has been one of the best buys of my sign making career and I don't take well to change.
Especially if it is not broke then don't fix it attitude.

Getting back to dirt bike graphics.

As far as not laminating MX graphics I would say it is impossible and a waste of money.
These bikes are used hard and the riders clothing and boots rub up against them.
I have even seen laminated 4 mil vinyl with 1 mil. of adhesive 8 mil vinyl with 1 mil. of adhesive material rubbed clean through, in fact I have seen the riders gear rubbing through the pvc panels.
The other thing to consider is when they finish a ride they tend to pressure wash with some very aggressive cleaners and then spray them with WD40 type oil protection.
Normal vinyls are not up to this kind of punishment.

SC

 

[Supergirl]

Getting back to dirt bike graphics.

As far as not laminating MX graphics I would say it is impossible and a waste of money.
These bikes are used hard and the riders clothing and boots rub up against them.
I have even seen laminated 4 mil vinyl with 1 mil. of adhesive 8 mil vinyl with 1 mil. of adhesive material rubbed clean through, in fact I have seen the riders gear rubbing through the pvc panels.
The other thing to consider is when they finish a ride they tend to pressure wash with some very aggressive cleaners and then spray them with WD40 type oil protection.
Normal vinyls are not up to this kind of punishment.

SC

I would say the same thing. (i'm in the road racing graphics which are far less beat upon) in addition, they use chemicals, such as break cleaner etc to clean the bike.
I can't even imagine not laminating anything i produce.

lodcomm, maybe your guys not riding them hard enough? :ROFLMAO: (oh and i'm totally qualified to say that )


Another thing. you mention Convex or Substance, did you ever try MotoMark, by general formulations?
I need to do two dirt bikes and this was the route i was gonna go.

 

[lodcomm]

I would say the same thing. (i'm in the road racing graphics which are far less beat upon) in addition, they use chemicals, such as break cleaner etc to clean the bike.
I can't even imagine not laminating anything i produce.

lodcomm, maybe your guys not riding them hard enough? :ROFLMAO: (oh and i'm totally qualified to say that )


Another thing. you mention Convex or Substance, did you ever try MotoMark, by general formulations?
I need to do two dirt bikes and this was the route i was gonna go.

Had you read and comprehended my post, you would have absorbed the fact that I do Laminate most of my MX graphics.. It is my motocross guys who are changing their graphics sets every couple rides that opt out of the added expense of laminating. For my enduro and general "spiffing up their Bike/ATV/Etc.." and intend to leave them on permanently - I use heavy stoneguard laminate and the high tack.

I make no judgement whatsoever on how hard they ride or whatever, I just supply them with the graphics sets they want. If they tell me they do not want to pay the extra for the Laminate I don't start screeching and flapping my arms and telling them they don't know what they want to buy.. and if you dont pay me for the lamination Your knees will wear through, etc... If they order a set of graphics, w/o lamination and find that they dont last as long as they want, then they can ask for it next time around.. I know many of the "Sign Guys" live & work under the: "I know more about what the customers wants than he/she does.." and I guess that is most often the case.. However My MX customers know exactly what they want, and if they dont want laminate I dont start trying to talk them into it, and go off in a pout, angry at them for not buying the top of the line setup. I just sell them what they ask for, and as of yet havent had a single one of the Non-Laminate guys come skulking back asking for it..

-t

 

[player]

Had you read and comprehended my post, you would have absorbed the fact that I do Laminate most of my MX graphics.. It is my motocross guys who are changing their graphics sets every couple rides that opt out of the added expense of laminating. For my enduro and general "spiffing up their Bike/ATV/Etc.." and intend to leave them on permanently - I use heavy stoneguard laminate and the high tack.

I make no judgement whatsoever on how hard they ride or whatever, I just supply them with the graphics sets they want. If they tell me they do not want to pay the extra for the Laminate I don't start screeching and flapping my arms and telling them they don't know what they want to buy.. and if you dont pay me for the lamination Your knees will wear through, etc... If they order a set of graphics, w/o lamination and find that they dont last as long as they want, then they can ask for it next time around.. I know many of the "Sign Guys" live & work under the: "I know more about what the customers wants than he/she does.." and I guess that is most often the case.. However My MX customers know exactly what they want, and if they dont want laminate I dont start trying to talk them into it, and go off in a pout, angry at them for not buying the top of the line setup. I just sell them what they ask for, and as of yet havent had a single one of the Non-Laminate guys come skulking back asking for it..

-t

That could mean you have lost a customer.

 

[SolitaryT]

Wow, so much to say here. If your cutter can't hack cutting through a laminated print, you're either doing it wrong or that cutter is a lemon. As for the new guy, the general consensus that you can't just hit print and have everything go right is such an understatement. It's hard to get into this business and even harder to establish the reputation of doing quality work. My best advice would be to find a good supplier, a local sign shop that has the experience to get the right materials for you, and you keep designing to your little heart's content, and have the sign shop do the work. Maybe ask if you can hang out and watch, get a feel for how all that stuff goes down, and THEN, if you're still feeling tenacious, take the plunge. I wouldn't say $25k is way off in a basic set up. You could get by with less, but then you wind up in the shop I'm in, where they're running CS2, Onyx from 2007, computers with XP, a JV3 with ink all over the inside of it, and a laminator that you actually have to physically push **** through because all of the machinery has broken... (I was JUST hired here, I take no resposnsibility)...

 

[autoexebat]

I have to agree with others , You should NEVER need 450 grams of pressure to cut the lamination. I'm thinking you have the wrong blade ! I have a special blade that I paid $30.00 for and it's cutting them perfect at 260 grams of pressure.

As far as printing with no lamination LOL ... talk about people asking for refunds !!!!! I wouldnt dare try that with my customers

 

[lodcomm]

That could mean you have lost a customer.

Sure thing… In reality IT could mean an infinite number of things..However, the most likely being that my customers who are asking for (less expensive) sort term use, non laminated graphics sets are perfectly happy with their descision to go without laminate.

But For sake of fun discussion lets go with your postulation that I "loosing customers" due to me not forcing them to pay for lamination, perhaps something like this:

Joe Motocross comes to me (probably via a referral cause I really have no advertising budget other than Craigslist & Backpages).. and asks for a set of Shroud graphics with his latest sponsors message & stuff on it. I ask him if he wishes it laminated for extra wear/scratch resistance & UV Protection.. He answers: no thank you, just the printed graphics will be fine. I cheerfully take his deposit, and happily print & Cut out his shroud decals. He picks them up, applies them to his bike.. goes into a 15 lap motocross or hare scramble, takes an endover in hill climb #2 and finds and finds that DAMN IT! Graphics Scratched! - Screw that Rinky Dink printer Todd Guy, He should have made me buy laminate after all. I am never going back to him, Im not going to call him to complain, in fact I'm simply going to go find a different graphics shop that makes me listen to them, because dang it.. I don't know what I want after all. Thus resulting in me believing my customers are happy, but in reality they are angry with me...

Does that pretty much sum up your uh.. hypothesis?


-t

 

[player]

The customer, in my experience, forgets about the deal but remembers the failure. The other thing I have found is no matter what the problem is or why it came about, they "blame the sign guy".

So when your customer scratches off the decal, he does not come back to you for the replacement or anything else. He looks elsewhere for his next purchase, and will probably tell his buddies your stuff is not very durable or good. He does not recommend you.

Now if you don't give him the option, rather all your decals for bikes are laminated as a rule, and that is included in the price you quote him, the whole problem goes away. When he says Joe Blow is cheaper, and he goes to Joe Blow to get his unlaminated decal, it will be you he comes back to for the replacement, and he will tell everyone Joe Blow sucks but you are the real deal.

How much does it cost to laminate anyway? What is the actual savings you pass on to the customer?

 

[lodcomm]

We should all listen to lodcomm as he's clearly got it ALL figured out.

Use budget equipment, steal images from the internet, and use no name vinyl (without laminate!!) and you've got yourself a recipe for success.

Why spend money for proper equipment and the industry standard materials!

Hello Mr White.. Thanks for the compliment! - I accept it with pride, especially when it comes from an industry expert and all. As I have clearly said many times. I am an Amateur. So it is nice when someone of your caliber recognizes me and my efforts.

My response to you is:

I love it when a "New guy" (as evidenced by his post in the "Newbie Section") asks a question say: " how about some suggestions getting started printing motocross graphics.."

Then Here comes 5-6 responses from the Industry experts telling him in no particular order:

1) How dare even think about doing such a this without apprenticing with an old print geezer.. do you think its just a matter of hitting print!!@@#! You better get a clue there son.. This is complicated stuff, you are way out of your league here

2) You need to buy a $15,000 roland printer & $10,000 "Seal (brand) Laminator"…

3) Don't come on here (in this case "newbie section) and ask questions about how to do something inexpensively
[because most of us here have spent thousands on our equipment and we highly resent the fact you would ask us how to do such a thing with inexpensive equipment, when we had to spend thousands.. That is downright insulting!] So instead of answering, we offer sarcastic, inane replies...

4) Minimum cost $25,000…

5) Blind leading the blind..

6) Impossible, blah..blah...

Essentially it can be summed up as: "Don't even bother trying to get into the business there young man, You just leave that stuff to us experts and professionals.."


I was able to accomplish exactly what this guy was asking about with an inexpensive old roland printer (Which by the way - almost surely prints with the exact same resolution, and uses the exact same inks as your $15,000 roland printer (albeit a bit more slowly, but we are talking motorcycle graphics here not exactly "Big Print Jobs".)

so to summarize this whole inane thread:

1) Some new gentleman come here and and asks an honest, simple question for help/direction in getting started printing motorcycle graphics...

2) Most of the responses from the industry "experts" are basically sarcastic (or out right foolish) jabs at the guy like telling him he needs Seal Laminators, and has to spend $25,000 etc..

3) I (and a few others as well) reply to the guy, Try to answer his questions, offer help and suggestion on how I was able to get started.. Give examples and such.. provide links, photos, etc..

4) The industry "Experts" (such as yourself, in this case) - Proceed to start attacking me. offering glib comments about me "stealing" graphics, crap quality.. etc.


As I suggested in on of the earlier posts.. The OP could get started into the business Handily by Buying a used (or Leasing) an inexpensive Roland BN20, and a Hand Laminator to start. The BN20 Will come with VersaWorks RIP and support from roland as well. Learning the basics Versaworks, Flexi or even Colorchoice is NOT THAT DIFFICULT, I'm sorry if you maybe had a tough time with it, but the reality is that even a clueless twit like myself was able to have my sc500 up and running in FLEXI - doing basic printing, cutting and print/contouring in a few days. The OP had stated he was already fairly versed in the graphic design side of this so he more than likely familiar with photoshop/xara/illustrator/etc..

Telling the guy that he needs to buy top of the line equipment, stock his "shop" with thousands of $$ equipment, apprentice, grovel, pay homage to you experts, etc.. to "get started" is complete and utter nonsense. Like I posted (and supported by posting links/photos/etc).. I was able to get into the business for far less than $25,000 and there is absolutely no reason in the world this gentleman cannot do the same or most likely better because he appears to have Graphic design talent which I sorely lack. I'm sorry if it is upsetting and outright scary to you that a relative bozo such as myself was able to actually accomplish such a stupendous feat - but I did, and to be perfectly it was not that big of a deal. (I will add that I asked a lot of questions, and had generous folks here and at other forums offer loads of help and advice to me when I was getting started..)

I know you were so busy composing your cleverly worded post, laced with sarcastic wit and such so I forgive you for missing it in two of my earlier posts: So for the 3rd time now: For the Graphics sets I sell that are intended to be used permanently I use ORAJET 3951 High Tack & StoneGuard Laminate. Is there something about that you do not understand? Can you suggestsomething of better quality I should be using?

I have several MX customers who want temporary graphics sets intended for only a ride or two and for these guys of offer (and charge accordingly) Un-laminated digital solvent prints on budget Vinyl - Thats what they ask for and thats what I give them its not really all that complicated.. Another example: I made & Donated several sets of one time use Shroud Graphics sets for some friends that rode the Louden NH Cystic Fibrosis Benefit "Turkey Run" (Turkey run = Motorcycle ride through the woods on dirt bikes, like an "enduro" but no points or timekeeping) - They were intended for ONE TIME USE… IE: One Day Event… TEMPORARY, NOT INTENDED FOR PERMANENT USE. I made these out of Budget no-name Vinyl and did not use any laminate.. to have done so would have been silly and accomplished nothing. If you want to use top of the line Vinyl & Waste laminate for Temporary use decals, you go right ahead and do so - I submit you are foolish if you do.

*hugs & Kisses*

-t

 

[lodcomm]

The customer, in my experience, forgets about the deal but remembers the failure. The other thing I have found is no matter what the problem is or why it came about, they "blame the sign guy".

So when your customer scratches off the decal, he does not come back to you for the replacement or anything else. He looks elsewhere for his next purchase, and will probably tell his buddies your stuff is not very durable or good. He does not recommend you.

Now if you don't give him the option, rather all your decals for bikes are laminated as a rule, and that is included in the price you quote him, the whole problem goes away. When he says Joe Blow is cheaper, and he goes to Joe Blow to get his unlaminated decal, it will be you he comes back to for the replacement, and he will tell everyone Joe Blow sucks but you are the real deal.

How much does it cost to laminate anyway? What is the actual savings you pass on to the customer?

Hi Player,

Thanks for taking the time to actually post a plain message w/o the extraneous nonsense My answer is simple: material wise it is not that much more of a cost to laminate, however time wise - (print/ print crop marks, let ink gas-out, apply laminate, re-insert.. scan crops, cut) does add considerable time to the project. If the graphics are intended to be used for only a race or two it is nonsensical and a complete waste of time to apply laminate. The unlaminated graphics hold up perfectly fine for short term use no matter how much you experts hate it, it is true: I posted photos of my own unlaminated decals on my 450. Those decals have a good couple hundred miles of hard New England Backwoods riding on them and they have held up perfectly well, I'll be more than Happy to take a bunch of close ups and send em to you or post em.. but I don't really see a need for that. Again, Let me state: for customers that are buying decal sets that they intend to use permanently, I use the the Orajet high-tack & stoneguard laminate (this is the 4th time I have stated this BTW). for temporary/short term use sets.. (that my customers specifically ask for "CHEAP"): I use budget vinyl & no laminate.. Exactly as I would If a customer came to me and asked for bumper stickers.

Regards,

-todd

 

[player]

Ya I was thinking that too... short term races, bikes get abused anyway.

It is a pain to lam then re-register and cut. When I first got my printer it screwed up a few times and I rarely use that feature.

 

[lodcomm]

Ya I was thinking that too... short term races, bikes get abused anyway.

It is a pain to lam then re-register and cut. When I first got my printer it screwed up a few times and I rarely use that feature.

Heh.. the crop mark sensor was not even working in my sc500 when I first got it.. the Variable Resistor in the Cutter Control board (used to calibrate the "sensor) was completely broken and I could not even adjust it per the service manual.

In the interim while I was looking around for a replacement cutter board - I bought a .45 Caliber Laser bore sighting "bullet" from e-bay for $6.00 that dropped perfectly into knife holder on my Roland.. I was able to use the red laser dot on the crop marks to easily do the "Manual" crop mark calibration procedure.. (Nearly impossible to perform by dropping the knife to try to center on the little carat!) I got by nicely with that for a few months until the Kind Folks over at solvenprinterconversions.com (Dave to be exact) kindly pulled a cutter board out of one of his sc500's and sold it to me. I cannot speak more highly about anyone than those guys.. they are great folks and appear to actually enjoy helping people out. Especially those of us with the old cj500's.

have a great one!

-t

 

[MikePro]

:snarky

is the search-function still-down on s101? if so, skip item#3&4, but then add 7, 8 &9 together and jump-back to the beginning and read very carefully.
plenty options/information to consider, and hopefully all this nonsense I'm writing makes sense. But I'm tipsy on BeerClub IPA's and, at the very least, I'm "satisfying my ego" by making you work a little more for your information. ...as you should. newbie.
read on. make sure to read #5 before spending any money just yet, and you'll be far-more ready to make an educated decision.

1. 
   [*=right]
   CriCut, solvent printable media to cut to size, & Liquid Laminate keeps you under a grand... just sayin'.
   ​
   
   [*=right]
   scoff if you will, but it's perfectly-sized for motorcross parts & misc. decals, zero overhead, and you can still outsource your BIG prints to a merchant member here.
   ​
   
   [*=right]
   if you're looking to dive-deeper with a bigger budget, search & read some threads on these forums with tons of already useful information.
   ​
   
   [*=right]
   buuut it looks like you said you searched already, so skip #4.....aaaand then wait another month, hop a plane to Orlando, and visit the ISA SignExpo to see all the awesomest-most-bestest-gear in-action.
   ​
   
   [*=right]
   item #5 has tons of materials to put your hands on, seminars, bags&bags&bags worth of samples materials/catalogs to take-home with you, the ability to see vehicle designing/wrapping in-action, new tools, new tricks, a chance to drink lots of beer with Mickey Mouse, and come back even more charged-up & that much more educated to decide where you'll spend your first $10-20k. ...and you can write it off as a business expense.
   
   ​
   
   [*=right]people say $30k is a solid number, not because they're buying the best-of-the-best, but because they're REALISTIC. Printer, plotter, laminator, stock materials, inks, rip software, design software, computers, electrical, ventilation, training, down-time, waste while overcoming learning-curve. It all builds-up, and you better be prepared to spend more than you were initially expecting on the front-end. All the haters, really got it alllllll figured-out and are pissed that "there's a new low-baller in town cheapening the standards" blah blah blah.
   [*=right]purple-monkey-dishwasher.
   [*=right]Print&Cut machines are a cool idea..... BUT
   I'm pretty sure I'd blow a gasket if I had to stop printing so that I could laminate/reload/cut on the same machine. if you can afford it, get a plotter that will work with your Print/Rip.
   [*=right]
   o, and if you're looking for brand-names to get your research started... check out the "Sign Equipment" section on the forums.
   ​
   
   [*=right]
   those names have their own forums for a reason, because they're worth-while. you'll see all those names at the show, and everything else is just basically pretty to look-at & move-on.
   
   o and, if you haven't noticed, I'm horrible at holding hands.
   ...but so is Taylor Swift.
   

   

   
   ​

 

[Joe Diaz]

Hi Player,

Thanks for taking the time to actually post a plain message w/o the extraneous nonsense My answer is simple: material wise it is not that much more of a cost to laminate, however time wise - (print/ print crop marks, let ink gas-out, apply laminate, re-insert.. scan crops, cut) does add considerable time to the project. If the graphics are intended to be used for only a race or two it is nonsensical and a complete waste of time to apply laminate. The unlaminated graphics hold up perfectly fine for short term use no matter how much you experts hate it, it is true: I posted photos of my own unlaminated decals on my 450. Those decals have a good couple hundred miles of hard New England Backwoods riding on them and they have held up perfectly well, I'll be more than Happy to take a bunch of close ups and send em to you or post em.. but I don't really see a need for that. Again, Let me state: for customers that are buying decal sets that they intend to use permanently, I use the the Orajet high-tack & stoneguard laminate (this is the 4th time I have stated this BTW). for temporary/short term use sets.. (that my customers specifically ask for "CHEAP"): I use budget vinyl & no laminate.. Exactly as I would If a customer came to me and asked for bumper stickers.

Regards,

-todd

We laminate everything, and have found that doing so actually speeds up production because applying laminated prints is so much easier than un-laminated prints which aren't as thick and ridged. That being said, it sounds like we do different types of projects...possibly larger projects where the rigidness of the material really helps. Also, the larger the job is, the more that saved application time adds up and can pay off, it certainly more than makes up for the time it takes to print corp marks, laminate and then put it back in the machine to cut.

Also, about "outgassing" since it was brought up: We have found no effects to the longevity of a job if you don't wait a day for your print to sit. However, we have found that It does slightly effect the repositinalble properties of the graphic. We have found the longer you let the print sit, the less aggressive it is during placement. So for many jobs that come into our shop, as long as they aren't wraps with difficult curves to work around, but are flat signs, basic lettering on trucks, etc, we laminate shortly after the print has left the printer and apply that day. Keep in mind, I'm sure that is all dependent on the types of materials and equipment you use. That being said, the minor repositinalble advantages you get from letting your print sit is the same whether you laminate or not. So if you have the rule that your print must "outgas" for an entire day (or whatever amount of time) before you laminate, you should really be letting your graphics sit the same amount of time even if you don't laminate.

We don't get a whole lot of people stopping in to get temporary dirt bike graphics. We mostly do small business work: Trucks, trailers, store fronts, signs etc... Perhaps our market is different, but I cannot imagine building a business around a specific niche when you have the equipment (and hopefully the ability) to offer so much more. Small business work IMHO pays a little better too... but they also expect things to last. So we don't even keep the cheap stuff around and everything gets laminated. We have found that the profit margin of saving a small amount by using lesser materials and lesser equipment, doesn't come close to the amount that can be made by providing the best possible results and creating long lasting professional relationships with your clients.

We learned early on in this business that tailoring our shop around the Motorsports Industry wasn't as profitable, and no amount of savings from using lower cost materials or cutting corners, because the stuff was supposed to be temporary, changed that. Eventually we all but phased that type of work out. I'm not bashing that type of work, I'm just saying to anyone who reads this (especially the OP), consider the idea that better projects are out there and consider becoming more diverse, because I will bet you that there is much more rewarding types of jobs out there. And when I say rewarding I'm not just talking about more money. In other words don't put all your eggs in one basket and get in the habit of being a more well rounded business which services a larger market of different types of consumers , otherwise your businesses success all hinges on the health of one specific niche, rather than many. And in our area Motorsports is very much seasonal and is quite unpredictable.

 

[lodcomm]

....a pilot/mechanic/part time sticker guys knows more than the people that actually do this for a living.

That's why I said we should all listen to you! You go from admitting you're an amateur to acting like you're the authority on a subject you don't even know.

Carry on.

Mr. White,

No-where in my posts have I claimed to be an authority on anything to do with digital printing. What I did comment on was the Tendency of some of you who "Do this for a living" - To go into some kind of "Attack Mode" whenever a new user comes on and tries to ask a question about getting started.. You guys get all defensive, start lashing out at people, Ridiculing, Insulting and frankly acting like a bunch of tools. For Gods sake - there was even a post from someone in this thread admonishing the OP for asking his question (explaining it was kind of "insulting" to the Pros), and went on to give the OP advice on how to "Properly" ask the users here the question if he expected an answer! <-- wtf is that! The only people that actually helped the guy who incidentially had posted his "newbie" question on the "newbie forum" were other newbies like myself. (You can go back through all the posts on this thread and see for yourself..) I am sure the OP has completely fled this forum, and probably Signs101 all together based on the reaction(s) of this nest of loonies he has encountered here after asking a simple question on a "Forum" that is intended for the asking of questions.. I see this exact same behavior from a group of you who "do this for a living" guys on an fairly regular basis. I remember reading a post here on signs101 from some guy on who was trying to swap out the backing of some decal material and was (politely) "asking" for advice, and suggestions: Instantly all you "pros" were attacking him, accusing him of trying trying to illegally switch out material(s), deceiving the customers, breaking the law, etc.. (10-15 posts!) You all didn't even have the slightest clue of why he needed to try and swap the backing, nor did a single one of you clowns even take the time to try to find out: NOPE - what you did do is attack, insult, lash out, accuse the guy of criminal activity, and as usual: act like a bunch of fools. You yourself accuse me of "stealing" graphics, when you have not even the slightest clue. Then you proceed accuse *me* of acting like an "authority"! You and anyone else can search on my username here and review all of my posts, and besides my posts riposting fool comments by Mosh, and friends. I have done nothing but HUMBLY & POLITELY asked questions of you so called "pros", and offered what help I could to other users.

I know it is upsetting, and downright frightening to you that places like "the internet", Ebay, youtube, "forums" et al have popped into existence. Relatively inexpensive printers, plotters, etc.. are all over the place now, and even Fellers is SELLING TO THE PUBLIC!. I am sorry that this has happened to you, and I really do understand that the contempt and anger you exhibit towards some folks (such as myself) is simply a reaction to you feeling threatened. You cite the fact that I am a Pilot, Mechanic, (you left out unix expert), and part time sticker guy - The reason you even know that about me is because I posted it, *and* supporting documentation in response to some Fool comment by "Mosh" on a forum here where I was asking for help (I'm pretty sure it was a question about what you all (you "pros") felt would be a "fair" price I should charge for basic banner printing, and I had no intention of trying to undercut the local "pros") Which I was asking Pros for advice!. As usual - Instead of offering anything resembling a helpful response to a simple, honestly, humbly asked question the *ahem* "Pro" chimes in and offers a smart a$$ comment comparing me to a "reality tv show".

So you carry on as well Mr White, keeping your head buried in the sand is a solid game plan indeed.

Warmest regards,

-t

 

[MikePro]

waaa waa

suck it up, newbie.



























:dog42

let the snarks, snark, and let the good advice shine through (...in shorter rants than my own)
take your battles to PM if you're really that hell-bent on sticking long-winded rants to someone for your hurt feelings.

Texans are way too friendly to want to deal with reading online battles between us cold-weather states.

 

[lodcomm]

suck it up, newbie.







:dog42

I will, but I'm having a ball poking fun at "pro's" (self proclaimed & otherwise) in general! You experts need to lighten up a bit..

(btw: Did you design that clever "laughing dog" thing or STEAL IT?)



-tPro

 

[MikePro]

dogs love me, no stealing necessary
(<---this guy too. whatever the heck it is.)

(dang, fred quoted me before removing my lemonparty comment.... I regretted posting that as soon as I realized that some really nice, abeit naive, people reading this thread might fall for it)

back to OP, seriously, go to the ISA Expo... your mind will be blown. Even if you don't buy a printer, you'll greatly expand your already existing knowledge of vinyls/application tools&methods/substrates available through more suppliers than you can ever acquire via a sign magazine subscription, email solicitations, ooooor the greatest sign forum known to mankind!

 

[Fred Weiss]

(btw: Did you design that clever "laughing dog" thing or STEAL IT?)

-tPro

dogs love me, no stealing necessary

free to download from lemonparty or meatspin.

And also accessible in our smiley collection by clicking the [More] link. :dog42

 

[lodcomm]

dogs love me, no stealing necessary
(<---this guy too. whatever the heck it is.)

(dang, fred quoted me before removing my lemonparty comment.... I regretted posting that as soon as I realized that some really nice, abeit naive, people reading this thread might fall for it)

back to OP, seriously, go to the ISA Expo... your mind will be blown. Even if you don't buy a printer, you'll greatly expand your already existing knowledge of vinyls/application tools&methods/substrates available through more suppliers than you can ever acquire via a sign magazine subscription, email solicitations, ooooor the greatest sign forum known to mankind!

That blue uh… thing? is cool too!

I'm counting myself lucky that my Tuxedo Kitty (to whom I am the only one who gives her real "Meat" to eat (wife and daughter offer only lame, dry: "Friskies") - somewhat Likes me! I wouldn't go so far as to say loves.. but she does rub up against my leg (when I am opening the can of wet food).

I hope to visit that ISA expo too.

-t