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Need Help Suggestions Disclosure for picky/cheap customers

Discussion in 'General Chit-Chat' started by ARGENTO, Jun 4, 2020.

  1. ARGENTO

    ARGENTO Advanced beginner

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    Feb 24, 2018
    Miami
    Hi !

    I need your help to guide me to put a good disclosure on my work orders or invoices.

    I have had a couple issues with picky cheap customers....
    They order 250 postcards....they want the cheapest job....and when the job is finalized they start complaining about the color not being "black enough"...
    Or "My face looks too red"...
    And either they want their money back or a re-print.

    This are normally offset orders I send to the wholeseller....

    Could you help me out with a good Idea to make a disclosure about this??

    Anybody would be nice enough to show your own work order in this post??

    I have been in this business for around 4 years, so i am still a beginner....but So tired of this kind of customers.


    Thank You


    Argento
     
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  2. Texas_Signmaker

    Texas_Signmaker Very Active Signmaker

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    I dont think disclosures will help you, its up to you to communicate your limitations on "cheap" products. Have samples around so they can see what the quality will look like. Be upfront about your limitations and temper expectations or figure out how to resolve the color issues. Give them an option, if they want cheap then you'll get something that will be rough looking color wise, of they want to be picky about color then upgrade to a better product.

    When someone calls me and I pitch a sign and they ask about a cheap banner, I disclose the limitations of that product and they make the choice to buy it knowing full well what the limits are. That way in the end they take responsibility for making a cheap decision (if they are using a banner to replace a permanent sign).

    In the end, the problem is your customer is not getting what they think they are paying for. It's up to you to sell them the right product. Don't bury that info in a disclosure.
     
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  3. Notarealsignguy

    Notarealsignguy Very Active Member

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    Study up on colors for offset printing. Chances are you are using your monitor for proofing and what you get doesnt match. There are tons of forums and info out there on offset printing, colors, proofing and calibrating monitors for it.
    These big printers typically have their ducks in a row.
     
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  4. Andy D

    Andy D Very Active Member

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    If you're proofing via email, I have a disclaimer that says something like "all displays show colors differently, we have no way to guarantee the final product will match what you're seeing, if this project is in anyway color critical, request a hard copy"
     
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  5. greysquirrel

    greysquirrel Active Member

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    I think what is lost is that you are also a customer in this equation. I outsource small doc all the time. I have 4-5 printers that I use. When I pick up an order, I open it before I leave and make sure its correct. If I'm not happy my customer won't be...I can tell you I am pickier than my customers are. At the end of the day, this work that someone else does for me is a representation of my business. Oh and you can always ask, pay for and charge your customer for a proof :)
     
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  6. Andy D

    Andy D Very Active Member

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    I didn't take the OP comment to mean poor quality, just didn't match the color the customer expected...
    I can tell you from years of photo processing, customers do not care if the image is color correct, they want over the top vivid colors and to look tan (or light skin tone for some customers)
    I would do what many print companies do, offer a hard copy for $10 and if they are too cheap to pay that, have them sign next to " I understand that by not getting a hard copy, the colors are not guaranteed"
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2020
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  7. iPrintStuff

    iPrintStuff Prints stuff

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    The problem is this will vary from customer to customer. Even ordering business cards (we do all our digital printing in house) on our online ordering system they always go for the cheapest option (300gsm uncoated) and then wonder why they aren’t shiny etc.

    Had someone complain about a banner he’d literally put up against a chain link fence, then a couple 2x4’s behind it then drilled holes in the middle of the banner to keep it up. Instead of using the grommets we’d put in it. That got ruined in about 6 months - so we told him 6 months is pretty good for a banner, especially as he’d put it up like a psychopath.

    as far as colour goes, you need to assume your customer has no knowledge or printing, colour profiling, colour management, monitor profiling. The works. What they’re expecting is to give you a photo, and receive a printed copy of exactly what was on THEIR screen. If their monitor isn’t set up correctly, there’s your first problem. You need to translate to the customer that the colour on their screen might not match the colour on the printed copy. Due to a whole manner of things (even the type of paper they’re using, silk/uncoated etc)

    that doenst need a lawyer writing you up a disclosure, all you need is a little bit of text saying that if colours a critical, they should request a hard copy for “x” amount of money.
     
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  8. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    As mentioned, these conversations need to take place before the job is sent out and produced. We call it, educating the customer. This means, explaining color shifts, fuzzy pictures and distortions if a job is too small to begin with. Just sending their files to a printer is hard to explain, after it was produced differently than what they saw on their monitor. It will take extra time to do this, so charge for it, as your reputation only needs 1 or 2 disgruntled customers to send it down the tubes.
     
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  9. Reveal1

    Reveal1 Active Member

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    Good suggestions, but I would add that you should re-evaluate your trade printers. Particularly with offset printing, I've found that some of the big one's don't really have their color dialed in. Think about it; they take your order of 500 postcards, and depending on sheet size gang it with 15 or 20 other orders of the same quantity print everything on one sheet and then trim. That means no way to color correct an individual order. They are simply applying the same color out put for an average they hope to be acceptable. We use trustworthy, local print shops for color sensitive work and a bonus is we get work from them also.
     
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  10. Jeremiah

    Jeremiah Member

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    This is the best post that come out of that Texas Signmaker Ever..... straight to the point . Facts , no filler , Great Advice!
     
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  11. Ian Stewart-Koster

    Ian Stewart-Koster Active Member

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    You need to figure out if they ARE being deliberately cheap, and if they seriously expect a Mercedes paint job for the cost of a Volkswagon?
     
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  12. Texas_Signmaker

    Texas_Signmaker Very Active Signmaker

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    Sorry its not like me to forget the filler, its was late and I was tired. Ill be sure to put more effort into sarcasm going forward..
     
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  13. Jeremiah

    Jeremiah Member

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    When a person comes up to our order desk, we have a sign that says 100% customer satisfaction guarantee on our work. If I do not feel like the work I am doing is good quality, I discuss it and most of the time turn down the job
     
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  14. Notarealsignguy

    Notarealsignguy Very Active Member

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    You cant sell cheap vs expensive if you cant get the color right on either option. The problem is in his process not the product.
     
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  15. 2B

    2B Very Active Member

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    First, you need to take a step and evaluate the situation as a whole and evaluate why this is happening;
    Find the common denominator and see what can be changed to help eliminate these dissatisfying results.
    • Is it the same customer that is complaining,
      • Fire the Customer or increase the cost to cover the hassle
    • Is the product being used for the same purpose
    • How are you portraying this product
      • Like others have said, paying for Timex does NOT get a Rolex
    • Check with your wholesaler and find our their criteria for file submittal
      • most will want a CMYK color code and certain DPI
    • When you proof, make sure you are exporting the proof the same way you would be sending it to the printer
      • example, printer wants it in JPG, using CMYK color codes, 600DPI
      • You proof using JPG, CMYK and 200DPI scaled down.

    on ALL proofs we send out we state that colors will look different on monitors when compared to final products
    upload_2020-6-5_9-26-35.png
     
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  16. ARGENTO

    ARGENTO Advanced beginner

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    Miami
    THANK YOU GUYS!

    All your responses are super helpful.
    I have it very clear now.
    Some of you suggest that I change my wholeseller...or setup my monitor and so on, but in this case I do not believe that is the issue.
    The pattern I see happening HERE IN MIAMI people are extremely cheap.
    They walk in the store with a cheap postcard in their hands and say "How much for this??"-- "My little cousin has made the design down in Columbia"
    They do not even want to hear anything else, but price.
    Even before they tell you how many postcards they need.

    Price Obsession, it seems like the most important factor.
    And every time i have issues is with people like this.
    People who care about quality and design...NEVER an issue.

    Again, thank you everyone...I will apply many of your advice.

    Leandro
     
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  17. Texas_Signmaker

    Texas_Signmaker Very Active Signmaker

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    Seems like you're ready to make a decision on what kind of customers you go after. I have a minimum of $125, that gets ride of the VERY low end. Sounds like it might be something you want to think about.
     
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  18. Notarealsignguy

    Notarealsignguy Very Active Member

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    Miami explains it. You wont win. If you think theyre gonna be a pain, tell them you dont do whatever is that theyre wanting.
     
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  19. mkmieciak

    mkmieciak Lost Soul

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  20. mkmieciak

    mkmieciak Lost Soul

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    "especially as he’d put it up like a psychopath."

    Thanks for the belly laugh.
     
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