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Do You Kern?

Jillbeans

New Member
Never.














..of COURSE I do!
I kern almost everything.
I fiddle around till it just feels right.
Sometimes I even over-kern.
When I first got a sign program I merrily typed away and stuck everything as-is.
I was so used to hand lettering I didn't notice it at first because I was not one with the words as before.
Once I posted something on a forum and an astute signgal pointed out the yawning space I'd left.
After that, I started kerning like a fiend.
Love....Jill
 

d fleming

New Member
Never.
















..of COURSE I do!
I kern almost everything.
I fiddle around till it just feels right.
Sometimes I even over-kern.
When I first got a sign program I merrily typed away and stuck everything as-is.
I was so used to hand lettering I didn't notice it at first because I was not one with the words as before.
Once I posted something on a forum and an astute signgal pointed out the yawning space I'd left.
After that, I started kerning like a fiend.
Love....Jill

The force is strong in this ones' kerning, I feel she is one with the words.:smile:
 

Marlene

New Member
yes I kern and wish everyone would so I don't have to see one more "la w yer" "1 - 555- 5555" or any of the other eyesores out there.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
We kern when needed or as we see fit.

Some things just need extra attention and fine-tuning it to just kerning is a pretty broad question.
 

MikePro

New Member
Wh at I S K Er n ing ? I ju st plug in my cri -c u t and cu t awa y !

+1

I always kern logos, but I always give myself the "thumbnail test" by zooming out and give a quick glance-over to see if I need any adjustments on larger bodies of text.
 

Craig Sjoquist

New Member
Of course ...A... but then again I learned to always design like it will be on a billboard 1st, if it works for a billboard it will work on everything.
 

bob

It's better to have two hands than one glove.
...
[A lame poll? If lame, don't comment. "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all."...

If the animated rabbit, as well as the legions of the mindless, had said "If you can't say something, don't say anything at all." it would have played better, don't you think?

That there's a special hell for people who attempt to fend off criticism by drawing that lame phrase notwithstanding, back to kerning.

Kerning is a term for something that should seldom happen with a properly constructed font file. Idiots who slide an 'A' under a 'V', push a lower case character back under the arms of an uppercase 'T', and jam lower case characters together in lieu of traditional ligatures have not a clue as to the basic unit of type setting, the type body.

The type body is the rectangle that contains the character. It can be larger than the character or ligature but, in most cases, it cannot be smaller. Unless you have some actual reason, as in some sort of unique design element, the type body is never violated.

This means that each character owns its own bounding rectangle and no part of any other character may share any portion of that space. Very simple. Moreover, numeric and some special characters are always on identically sized type bodies. This is so that columns of numbers look like columns of numbers.

Unfortunately this fundamental principle is unknown to the vast majority of those who dubiously style themselves 'designers'.

This visual tradition has been in effect since the invention of moveable type which is functionally since the beginning of the printed word. The entire human race has been looking at type conforming to this rule for centuries. Any invasion of space by one character on another looks odd.

For example, just right now I glanced down at my desk and there sits a flyer for Minwax Gel Stain. That's what is says right there on the front. The 'Gel Stain' is set in upper and lower case in some flavor of Roman. But some moron, no doubt a recent college graduate, has slid the 'l' in 'Gel' over to the left such that the bottom left serif on the 'l' lies slightly under the lower right arm of the 'e'. Violating the 'e's bounding rectangle. You certainly can read it, but it doesn't look at all right.

Reading something and seeing something are two entirely different things. Reading is, for most people, inference. Tht's wy yu cn rd ths. Seeing is seeing.
 

Billct2

Active Member
Well, I was trained as a signpainter (Butera Sign School) not a typesetter and we were definately taught to adjust the negative space to create a balance.
Then once we learned the principles of letter spacing we we allowed to bend the rules for artistic effect.
 

bob

It's better to have two hands than one glove.
Well, I was trained as a signpainter (Butera Sign School) not a typesetter and we were definately taught to adjust the negative space to create a balance.
Then once we learned the principles of letter spacing we we allowed to bend the rules for artistic effect.

Adjusting negative space, or any other flavor of space is one thing, having one character invading the space of a neighbor is quite another thing. If they taught you that the latter is acceptable typography there at the Butera Sign School, this is prima facie evidence that they don't know their collective asses from a warm biscuit on this subject.

The basic rules of typesetting apply to the printed word, whether printed from cold type, hand lettered, or scrawled on a mirror with a finger laden with toothpaste.

More evidence of dubious authority is your referring to yourself as a 'signpainter'. The proper term is 'sign writer', a title earned not just via a trade school, but also a lengthy and often frustrating apprenticeship with a variety of journeyman sign writers. With or without a trade school.
 

J Hill Designs

New Member
just because it wasnt (couldn't be) done with typesetting plates, doesn't mean it wasn't needed - the technology back then had a finite threshold in regards to character spacing...now we can work past that threshold...
 

Baz

New Member
I do not share your opinion Bob. I was taught by the Mike Steven's book and a whole mess of alcoholic sign painters (some recovering and some acting). And we always adjusted visually. You seem to be following a strict typesetting mentality that is limited with rectangle plates.

Sorry but i don't get your proprietary space for each letter phillosophy. My opinion is making a whole word/sentence/paragraph look visually pleasing. Which sometimes means you have to "tuck" some letters in a bit.
 

bob

It's better to have two hands than one glove.
just because it wasnt (couldn't be) done with typesetting plates, doesn't mean it wasn't needed - the technology back then had a finite threshold in regards to character spacing...now we can work past that threshold...

Merely because you can do something does not mean that you should nor does it make it typographically acceptable. Violate the type body at your own peril. Being able to slide characters wherever you want them is not license to do so.

Every time I see one character gratuitously violate the space of another, I cringe. Just like not using a ligature for something like 'ff', 'fi', etc. Bad typography is bad typography.
 
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