do you use after market ink's

[ChiknNutz]

I get Triangle MLD liters for $120 shipped.

 

[redbarn]

Have triangle inks improved in the past couple of years? I tried them maybe two, three years ago and immediatley had color issues. I threw the 440ml cartridge away- my suppliers are awesome. Since they recommened the product they replaced it.

 

[rjssigns]

Go ahead. They will tell you whatever you want to hear until something goes wrong...
Oops. I broke my rule of saying I wouldn't post anymore regarding 3rd party inks.

Knock yourself out. I do however reserve the right to laugh when you come back here whining that your printer is effed up.

 

[heyskull]

Well I ran Lyson for nearly 2 years after our warranty finished until at the start of the year stupidly I updated the firmware on my VJ 1604.
I was told this would sort the problem I had with the sub tank valves sticking. All the firmware did was lock out further the smart cards and Lyson terminated our partnership as they couldn't write the chips to accept the firmware.

We were in a dilemma as the cost of oem mutoh cartridges in the UK is horrific. We found a company in the UK who would give us a bulk ink system for free and Jetbest inks they also gave us the info on how to reset the smart cards back to 100%.
I think it is now 7-8 months later and I can confirm their is no change whatsoever. The inks work as oem and the colours and wear resistance are as good if not better.

The payments have just finished on the machine and over the last 2 years it has worked hard making our life easier and more profitable.
I would seriously consider buying another VJ and running bulk inks through it as the running costs are now peanuts.

SC

 

[aaronJREgraphics]

Never....... did once it was a nightmare!!!!

 

[jhanson]

Hands down Jteck has provided the widest color gamut of any ink i've ever seen. The facility in Italy has a gruesome QA department, the ink is waterbased and is a piece of cake to clean up. Every ink they offer has "nanotechnology" which on average saves15 to 30 percent of ink costs compared to most "other" inks. Why do i know this, bc i profile a large amount of different printers from different manufacturers and have found that what they claim is true.

I won't disagree that JTeck ink works well. Compared to previous generation dye sub inks (such as Sensient and Manoukian), it will save you 15-30% ink with a good profile. But so will other current generation dye sublimation inks from other manufacturers.

I just wish their marketing department would drop the stupid nano-ink ********. Sublimation dyes, by their physical nature, are not nano-scale particles. Any good chemist can tell you that.

The "ordered matrix" crap they're pitching for the latest generation ink is just that, pure crap with no basis in reality. Here's a hint: an ordered matrix of molecules is a SOLID. Compare the structure of a salt crystal with the structure J-Teck shows in their marketing literature and you'll see what I mean.

 

[tomence]

All i know is that OEM inks will save you lot of headaches.

 

[jhanson]

All i know is that OEM inks will save you lot of headaches.

Depends on the OEM. Leggett & Platt a few years ago signed a deal with 3M to make inks for their VirtuRS UV printers. The ink was a total disaster, caustic and hazardous to the equipment and operators alike.

Every once in a while even the better OEMs have manufacturing issues with their ink. Fact is that very few OEMs actually make their own ink; most outsource it to a partner company or similar.

If you are lucky enough to find a third party manufacturer (or even distributor) who actually performs QA testing like the OEMs do, and is willing to back their own product like the OEMs, then you'll do fine. Finding an ink manufacturer who does QA testing but doesn't work with printers is not sufficient, since the QA testing they perform only checks for the obvious flaws such as settling and dispersion. It does nothing to test for interaction with the ink delivery system of a printer.

Just trying to get the least expensive ink you can find overseas is a recipe for disaster.

 

[tomence]

If you are lucky enough to find a third party manufacturer (or even distributor) who actually performs QA testing like the OEMs do, and is willing to back their own product like the OEMs, then you'll do fine.

Then you will pay premium price just like the OEM.

 

[jhanson]

Then you will pay premium price just like the OEM.

Not necessarily.

Case in point: Epson and HP. Ink revenue goes toward covering the subsidized printers they flood the market with.

 

[jhanson]

Which would be right around the time this thread was started...... :Big Laugh

LOL, I just noticed this was a necro

 

[john1]

OEM FTW, Do some'n!

haha

 

[SightLine]

Saying an entire brand of aftermarket ink is junk as well as saying all aftermarket ink will cause problems is really not the right way to go about it. Most "quality" aftermarket inks are developed for a specific machine or printhead. For example saying Triangle ink is terrible..... what Triangle ink for what machine and what form (carts, bulk)?

I read all the horror stories too.... yes some people can and will have problems with aftermarket inks. Keep in mind though, people do not generally just post unsolicited positive reviews but they are always very quick to post when they have a problem. There are far far more companies using aftermarket ink than the few you read about screaming that it will wreck your machine like it did theirs.

We have run aftermarket ink almost exclusivley for probably 6 years now. I also had some problems early on with our old JV3. I went with the near cheapest I could get. One form some obscure company no one has ever heard of out of California, that one actually worked great but ordering ink became unreliable. So I gave MegaInk (back when they were their own brand) a try. Disaster. Even with an iOne the colors were wretched and dull. Then gave Image Specialists ink a try. Disaster. Thick gooey and after just a day or so I could actually see the yellow particles coming out of solution and settling in the bottom of the tank. Also started melting things it should not. The stuff was far too strong and just awful.

All this time I know about the bigger slightly more expensive aftermarket brands that everyone has heard of like Bordeaux and Triangle. Well that would be my suggestion.... go with a long time proven brand. I finally switched to Triangle. Yes the color is different, better actually. If you use canned profiles well then you are already used to marginal results whether you know it or not or are willing to admit it. Get the ability to create your own profiles, many aftermarket inks have a wider gamut than OEM. You will expand your ability to hit many colors, reduce ink useage, even if you are using OEM inks. Canned profiles were written for a specific machine (looks just like your but it is NOT your machine), and they were made in a specific enviorment. Things like your shops average temperature, humidity, altitude, and your specific machines quirks ALL affect how the ink goes down and looks.

Many aftermarket inks also have better durability. And many work absolutley just perfectly fine. We have been running Triangle inks for about 4 years now both in our old JV3 which we no longer have and our JV33. Runs great, no premature head failures, no odd color (much better color actually), no clogged lines or anything. We did run the cartrdige version for a while on the JV33 and Triangle did have an issue with the empty flags not popping out on the cartridges. That was highly aggravating but no fault of the ink itself. They have since made changes to correct that as well. Now we use their bulk ink with zero issues.

Even OEM ink can have issues. I remember years ago on our JV3 with OEM ink having all sorts of problems at one point. Finally Mimaki admitted and issue and recalled all of that batch and sent out new ink. It happens, and will happen to any brand including OEM at some point. Stay with OEM though, I encourage it. I like that you spend over double what I do for the same product. Gives me a better competitive edge.

 

[heyskull]

Well since installing the bulk ink system in our machine I have more than quartered the cost of original inks.
OEM Mutoh 440ml ink cartridges work out to be nearly $170 a cart in the UK!
I am buying ink at about $50 for 440ml now!
That sort of saving of nearly $500 a complete set cannot be ignored.
This means now that we have upgraded our media and laminate.

SC

 

[premiercolour]

Not scared about using 3rd party inks. However, I'll do my homework before jumping on some cheapo ink bandwagon.

Ink has come along way in the last 10 or so years. I find it interesting that many old timers, or people who have grown up in the wide format industry are slow adopters and often shun away new market trends, in favor of "playing it safe".

It helps to know some ground rules when ink shopping... like who actually makes the OEM ink for my printer? Mutoh, Roland, Mimaki don't actually manufacturer ink, but buy bulk ink on contract with an ink formulary company. The ink has to pass high quality standard acording to the printhead manufacturer. In this case, (most cases) it's Epson.

Things to consider is the chemical make-up, particle size, soluable solution etc... with a little bit of homework, and reading MDS Data Sheets it's easy to determine what's going to work and what's not. Getting print samples from the company is a good way to start. Finding others who use the same ink and asking their experiences with it is also wise.

I hear the argument all the time about "Voiding the Warranty" and I don't buy it. That's a fear tactic pushed by OEM's and Tech Support. Leagally, that's not true... we, as consumers are protected by "Magnuson-Moss Act"
They have to prove that any 3rd party product you used/installed was a direct result of it's failure, to void the warranty on that particular part. Not the whole machine. So, if your motherboard goes out, motors or drives fail... they have to prove without a shadow of a doubt that the ink did it. But the reality of the law is that they can't. The only part that's in direct contact with the ink is the print head and hoses/tubes themselves. In other words, they have to have a direct correlation to one another.

Now if you are going to jump into 3rd party inks, use some common sense. Be prepared to buy or have another printhead on standby. Not that you are certainly going to need one... just don't go crying to your printer's tech support when you have clogged nozzles. Also, learn your printer's insides and mechanical workings. You can often trouble shoot your own machine and save time and money. Start by purchasing ink from repituable ink manufacturers. You might end up being suprised to learn that the 3rd party ink that you are getting is the same company that makes the more expansive private label OEM ink! Several of the well established ink manfacturers have relly solid warranties on their ink as well. Meaning, if their product damages your printhead they will repair/replace at their cost!

Again, do some research, and don't let the fuddy-duddy types disuade you from potentially saving your company thousands per year on print costs. In this economy, we all need a competitive edge.

(BTW... I havn't read it just yet, but this months Wide-Format Imaging magazine has an article about 3rd party inks. Betting there will be some links to some of the more repituable ink companies as well.)

+1

 

[premiercolour]

Saying an entire brand of aftermarket ink is junk as well as saying all aftermarket ink will cause problems is really not the right way to go about it. Most "quality" aftermarket inks are developed for a specific machine or printhead. For example saying Triangle ink is terrible..... what Triangle ink for what machine and what form (carts, bulk)?

I read all the horror stories too.... yes some people can and will have problems with aftermarket inks. Keep in mind though, people do not generally just post unsolicited positive reviews but they are always very quick to post when they have a problem. There are far far more companies using aftermarket ink than the few you read about screaming that it will wreck your machine like it did theirs.

We have run aftermarket ink almost exclusivley for probably 6 years now. I also had some problems early on with our old JV3. I went with the near cheapest I could get. One form some obscure company no one has ever heard of out of California, that one actually worked great but ordering ink became unreliable. So I gave MegaInk (back when they were their own brand) a try. Disaster. Even with an iOne the colors were wretched and dull. Then gave Image Specialists ink a try. Disaster. Thick gooey and after just a day or so I could actually see the yellow particles coming out of solution and settling in the bottom of the tank. Also started melting things it should not. The stuff was far too strong and just awful.

All this time I know about the bigger slightly more expensive aftermarket brands that everyone has heard of like Bordeaux and Triangle. Well that would be my suggestion.... go with a long time proven brand. I finally switched to Triangle. Yes the color is different, better actually. If you use canned profiles well then you are already used to marginal results whether you know it or not or are willing to admit it. Get the ability to create your own profiles, many aftermarket inks have a wider gamut than OEM. You will expand your ability to hit many colors, reduce ink useage, even if you are using OEM inks. Canned profiles were written for a specific machine (looks just like your but it is NOT your machine), and they were made in a specific enviorment. Things like your shops average temperature, humidity, altitude, and your specific machines quirks ALL affect how the ink goes down and looks.

Many aftermarket inks also have better durability. And many work absolutley just perfectly fine. We have been running Triangle inks for about 4 years now both in our old JV3 which we no longer have and our JV33. Runs great, no premature head failures, no odd color (much better color actually), no clogged lines or anything. We did run the cartrdige version for a while on the JV33 and Triangle did have an issue with the empty flags not popping out on the cartridges. That was highly aggravating but no fault of the ink itself. They have since made changes to correct that as well. Now we use their bulk ink with zero issues.

Even OEM ink can have issues. I remember years ago on our JV3 with OEM ink having all sorts of problems at one point. Finally Mimaki admitted and issue and recalled all of that batch and sent out new ink. It happens, and will happen to any brand including OEM at some point. Stay with OEM though, I encourage it. I like that you spend over double what I do for the same product. Gives me a better competitive edge.

Nicely Put. +1. I like the aspect of even OEM ink can have issues.

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