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Does anyone own a Industrial CNC?

Discussion in 'CNC Routers & Engravers' started by montrealsigns, Mar 15, 2018.

  1. montrealsigns

    montrealsigns Member

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    Does anyone here own a Industrial CNC pro series? What do you think of it? Would you recommend it?
    Thanks
     
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  2. GaSouthpaw

    GaSouthpaw Active Member

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    It's fine for a hobbyist, but it's really not a production table.
     
  3. montrealsigns

    montrealsigns Member

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    Thanks for the quick reply
    I’m presently shopping for a cnc can you please tell me what I should look for?
     
  4. GaSouthpaw

    GaSouthpaw Active Member

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    Depends on what you're going to use it for.
    If you're only cutting plastic, paper, PVC or similar "soft" products, a Zund or an Esko will be top notch equipment for you. If you're cutting aluminum or other non-ferrous metals, you want something "beefier." My preferred router is MultiCam (having run them for something like the last 16 years), with AXYZ second. Other manufacturers on a case by case basis, though I would also caution you to stay as far away from Biesse as you can, based on my experience with them.
    Also...
    - Get the biggest table you can, whether you think you need it or not. You'll almost always find a need for the size you were going to get, otherwise.
    - Tool changers are great- if you're cutting things that need them. Otherwise (my opinion), they're kind of a waste of money. I could change out tools on the tables I ran in less than a minute, and I generally didn't need to make multiple tool changes during operations. If you're going to do "carved" signs with 3D relief, however, absolutely get a tool changer.
    - Don't buy any table that doesn't offer a vacuum hold down. If you do, you're going to have all kinds of trouble with "sloppy" parts.
    - Tables with solid bases (as opposed to legs) are, normally, more stable.
    - Avoid machines that use hand-held (think Porter-Cable) routers to cut rather than integrated spindles.
    - Whatever machine you look at, take your own file and material to get it demo'd. The manufacturer is going to show you things cut in "Ideal" conditions that don't exist in a real-world environment.
    - Make sure, no matter the brand you buy, that there are certified techs locally to work on it during your warranty period.
    - Make sure your software works with it. Seems like a small thing, but it's a P.I.T.A. to have to do extra work to run parts. Personally, I prefer EnRoute from SAi because of the control it gives you over the workflow, but I hear good things about ArtCarve, too.
    I'm sure I've forgotten some things, but there's plenty of other advice floating around the site, too.
     
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  5. DerbyCitySignGuy

    DerbyCitySignGuy Very Active Member

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    I can't stress enough the point of getting a big table. You can always make adjustments to your tools and bits, but you can never upgrade to a bigger table without buying a new machine. You can always cut smaller jobs on a bigger table, but you'll never be able to do a bigger job on a small table.

    If it's financially feasible, go with the biggest table you can fit in your shop.
     
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  6. SignEST

    SignEST New Member

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    Depends on your budget. Preferably look for servo motors instead of steppers, ATC(automatic tool changer), minimum bed size 4' x 8' , 5HP minimum spindle - Real spindle not some DeWalt homeless depot turd, vacuum bed and dust extractor, oil mister or fogbuster for aluminum cutting.
     
  7. montrealsigns

    montrealsigns Member

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    Feb 22, 2018
    Montreal, Quebec, canada
    Thanks
     
  8. montrealsigns

    montrealsigns Member

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    Feb 22, 2018
    Montreal, Quebec, canada
    6BC127FA-FA72-4FE0-A865-22750E0D2D54.png
     
  9. montrealsigns

    montrealsigns Member

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    Feb 22, 2018
    Montreal, Quebec, canada
  10. henryz

    henryz Member

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    How much?
     
  11. montrealsigns

    montrealsigns Member

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    Montreal, Quebec, canada
    15000$
     
  12. henryz

    henryz Member

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    I know budget is always important when considering large equipment but like many have said you want to go big, even if you think a 4' x 8' is sufficient. You will come across an even larger project. If you are a small shop using it a few times a day that will be fine but there are other a long that price range like, Camaster & Shopbot, I would recommend Camaster. If you want something you can run 24hrs. then consider a AXYZ I would stay away from Multicam, we have several and nothing but problem with service and $$$. The features really come down to what you are doing and the usage you wouldn't need a tool changer if you are only going to do channel letters now if you have an extra couple of kkk's I'm sure you could find use for it in the future...
     
  13. billsines

    billsines Member

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    I disagree completely with the guys here who are saying stay away from the porter cables. I have been in CNC over ten years now. The 3.25hp porter cable will not let you down. About the only time it fails is when you need to change the brushes. Two brushes is about $8 then you're up and running again. Get a spare and swap it out. Of course it will last a long time before you need to change brushes. Yes, I have a bearing go out from time to time, but I run these things 40 hours a week. It's less money to get in than a spindle.

    Vac table is an absolute must.

    How often will you use it? I know people are recommending the big boy CNCs, but consider your payments. Will you be paying $500 a month to put $1000 through it each month? Consider your budget.

    I highly recommend EZ-Router out of Mineola TX. I think they may also be called Lonestar Cutting Solutions, because they have CNC plasma division as well. If you're at all tech savvy, you can just do your own maintenance. Pretty much all the parts are available and easy to swap out. Trust me, I know. I have been working on my own since the beginning. So I would get one that is simple that you can work on yourself rather than paying a tech $$$ and traveling expenses.

    The first one we bought in 05 is still running, even right now. It runs 40 hours a week.

    I think you really only need a big boy CNC if you are cutting 3/4" plywood and MDF all day long. But if a few signs, look at budget and move up from there. I think you can even get those EZ-Router basic models with a tool changer on it. They'll give you sign software too, Vectric VCarve Pro.
     
  14. SignEST

    SignEST New Member

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    How do you control the speed of the spindle on your porter cable? That's one of the important parts of feeds and speeds, without being able to control your spindle accurately you will limit your cutting range for a lot of materials and sacrifice edge quality adding on finishing time which is money spent. Sure your spindle is cheap as dirt but you're paying for it in ways you can't see.

    You don't have to get a known name brand such as Axyz, they are really really really expensive. If you're buying a Chinese machine I really suggest you look at CNCzone.com- Largest Forums for CNC Professional and Hobbyist alike! and scroll down to CNC routers, they have a few subforums specifically dedicated to certain Chinese manufacturers such as Omni, word around town is that Multicam pays Omni to make their machines.

    Look for quality components over size of the machine, what good is a machine that you have to maintain once every two days? I'm saying minimum 4'x 8' because that will be your most standard material size, you could probably get away with a 4' x 4' but then you're dealing with cutting down readily available 4' x 8' material.

    The thing that a lot of people don't realize is that you will RARELY get jobs that require you to have a bigger machine than a 4' x 8' and then you're already competing against the guys who have bigger facilities and don't bet your life on beating them. There's this function called tiling which lets you have a workpiece that's the length of your shop. 4x40 if you really wanted to, the idea is to just slide the sheet either forwards or backwards depending on your facility and just continue with the next part of the linework. I have done this before and it works just fine, make registration marks and put them in with dowels. https://photos.app.goo.gl/bX218nlLKVLxUGrf1
    That was a 16 hr cut and I made 4 of them in a week. 0 downtime 0 failures. Reason for 16 hr is not due to me not wanting to use bigger cutters, this was as per customer request. 1/8 o flute, did the entire job with 2.

    Quality components are there to reduce your headaches down the road and reduce potential downtime. If you got the money to spend and cares not to give, go for Axyz, they're really reliable workhorses.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2018
  15. billsines

    billsines Member

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    "Paying for it in ways you can't see." Not in my instance.

    That spindle is variable from 10,000rpm to 21,000rpm.

    I guess all I'm saying is this: question everything. Don't just hand someone a $75,000 check just because they say you need to spend that much on a machine. Depending on your application, you may not need that much machine. And price setting for your product will be where you either make money or lose money. You gotta figure out how much it costs to have that machine there and how much it costs to operate. Better make sure you have that all covered. When is your break even point?
     
  16. SignEST

    SignEST New Member

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    I agree with not needing anything crazy to start if the demand for the product is not even there. It might be better to get a hobby range to start due to the learning curve and avoid crying yourself to sleep when you crash the machine. I still stand by having a proper spindle because it also allows full control in the software you're using to post. It's less tweaking to start off.
     
  17. mpn

    mpn Active Member

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    Pretty neat aluminum job SignEst
     
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  18. fixtureman

    fixtureman Member

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    I started off with a Porter Cable router that had the speed control and as I made money I upgraded my table to one with a spindle. My first CNC was a used Shopbot that made me a lot of money. I bought another Shopbot in 2008 and that one is still going strong and making money with very little expenses. Mostly bits and spoil boards
     
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  19. billsines

    billsines Member

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    Lagrange
    I think if you need the tool changer you have to go with a spindle. We never had the tool changers because our product doesn't call for it. But if I had to make signs with vee bits and straight bits, I would definitely look into a tool changer.

    I've looked at NewCNC out of Michigan before. Their machines seem pretty robust. But I don't have one, so I can't tell you for sure.
     
  20. SignEST

    SignEST New Member

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    There is apparently another 'Canadian' CNC manufacturer FGP Solution – One Stop Hub of Laser Cutting Service , I requested the price for a 5' x 10' and a 4' x 8', their prices were in USD for whatever reason. Also on the high end but cheaper than Axyz. I don't know the quality of their machines as I have personally not visited their showroom or know anyone who has one.
     
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