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Does the company's success determine whether or not we made a great logo.

G

g&eprinting

New Member
FireSprint said:
If the company you designed for grows, you might promote that you did their logo as part of your portfolio. If they fail, well you can just remove the logo from your portfolio and it will be forgotten about.

I know a great logo doesn't hurt, but it has little or nothing to do with the success of a company in most cases.
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What if you felt that was the best looking logo you have ever made and that company failed.

Would you keep that logo in your portfolio.? Yes or no.

Yes because it was a really good looking logo.

Or no because the idea that you made a logo and that company failed would scare a potential?
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Probably because we're all so sign/logo oriented, we tend to believe our ideas, drawings and abilities can make or break a business.

There are many things go into the making of a successful company and the logo portion is only a small facet of the overall plan.

We all tend to tell our customers how much our signs, ideas and knowledge will benefit them, when actually, we're just trying to a make a 'Sale' based on our own past history. When creating a successful company, more than signs goes into the brew. Jingles, radio ads, uniforms, media action, television ads, computer/internet usage, newspapers and so many other forms it ain't even funny. To think some company has a better chance with yours' my or her ideas is just a small part of the puzzle. It's all part of your business plan..... or should be. Marketing and advertising are closely related and until you understand them both... you'll be needing help.

Other than the Red Cross or some place like the Golden Arches.... not too many things have a chance in this fast paced world anymore.

As with Dan, his company does mucho branding, but I'm sure, if it was known, the companies seeking his people out have already been established and going for one small piece of the puzzle with a name that's known and trusted. Successful people don't want to be doing this kinda stuff over and over until something might click.... they want the best, so they are willing to pay for someone known in the logo industry. So naturally, he's going to have a good success rate. Those people were successful coming in and now they're just better identified coming out.
 
bob

bob

It's better to have two hands than one glove.
Dan Antonelli said:
Bob out of the 700+ brands we created, 92% are still in business. Since the failure rate for most small businesses is around 50%, I'd say we help slant the odds in their favor by advocating marketing and advertising solutions which all begin with a polished brand and image. The logo is just a part of it - for sure. But it all starts from there.
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Apples and oranges.

Those for whom a brand, whatever that might be, was created by you or anyone else, are but a tiny subset of all small businesses

That, essentially, 50% [your number] less the miniscule number that sought your services or those of your competitors, of all small businesses do not fail would seem to say that you have an approximate 50:50 chance regardless of what you do about branding. Your 92% is nt particularly meaningful alongside these other numbers.

Offering a product that people want and/or need is a far more powerful factor than having a clever brand. Just having your location in the right place is more of a factor than whatever symbolism you might adopt.

I don't think anyone can predict if they would have been AS successful in spite of a poor brand, but I think its safe to say they'd have had a harder time.

I can say with certainty though, that our clients get more money for their work, and have higher close ratios, then they did before we did their branding.
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Unknowable.

Recall what I said about necessary and sufficient conditions. You might want to take a break from you labors and familiarize yourself with the concept.
 
Dan Antonelli

Dan Antonelli

New Member
bob said:
Recall what I said about necessary and sufficient conditions. You might want to take a break from you labors and familiarize yourself with the concept.
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Thanks for the tip Bob! And you as well might want to take a break from your labors to study more up on small business branding, and it's effect on their success. Coincidentally, I happen to have written two books on the subject, and my third is nearly complete. I'd be happy to send you a copy when it's done if you're really serious about endeavoring to further your knowledge on the subject. Perhaps after you've had some additional education and study on the subject, you might share my views.
 
bob

bob

It's better to have two hands than one glove.
Dan Antonelli said:
Thanks for the tip Bob! And you as well might want to take a break from your labors to study more up on small business branding, and it's effect on their success. Coincidentally, I happen to have written two books on the subject, and my third is nearly complete. I'd be happy to send you a copy when it's done if you're really serious about endeavoring to further your knowledge on the subject. Perhaps after you've had some additional education and study on the subject, you might share my views.
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A most generous offer. I return I'd send you a copy of my last book but, unless you participate in a rather obscure horse sport, it wouldn't be much of a gift.

Have you considered that it might be the case that I feel as I do not because I don't understand the subject but because I do indeed understand it. Then again, perhaps not.
 
FireSprint.com

FireSprint.com

Trade Only Screen & Digital Sign Printing
Dan Antonelli said:
Bob out of the 700+ brands we created, 92% are still in business. Since the failure rate for most small businesses is around 50%, I'd say we help slant the odds in their favor by advocating marketing and advertising solutions which all begin with a polished brand and image. The logo is just a part of it - for sure. But it all starts from there.

I don't think anyone can predict if they would have been AS successful in spite of a poor brand, but I think its safe to say they'd have had a harder time.

I can say with certainty though, that our clients get more money for their work, and have higher close ratios, then they did before we did their branding.
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The McDonald's arches would be worthless if you didn't see them on every street corner for decades. They have an amazing company that has built the strength behind that logo.

I believe that the businesses you work with tend to be more successful, but I don't think it has much to do with you specifically. I think those business owners that you work with understand what it takes to be a great company. They understand their business. They also understand when they need to hire someone with an incredible talent like yourself.

I'm sure you don't waste your time trying to get just any small business to buy a marketing/branding package from you. With your talent, I'll bet a dime to a dollar YOU pick the customer, not the other way around necessarily.

I would also bet that if a small business calls you up and says design me a logo, you don't just offer a logo, you build an entire brand, a way to present themselves. (not to mention handing them a copy of your books). You probably also give them tips and insight on how to maintain that high level of professionalism your work portrays.

So back to what I originally said. A logo has very little to do with the success of a company. I still stand behind that. On the other hand the entire brand and the brains behind them in both the designer and entrepreneur do have just about everything to do with it. Dan, you're not just a logo designer (Post #18) and you know this far better than I.

No one can design a great logo and expect a successful company to come right out of that with nothing else. That's all I'm saying in my wordiness.
 
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FireSprint.com

FireSprint.com

Trade Only Screen & Digital Sign Printing
g&eprinting said:
What if you felt that was the best looking logo you have ever made and that company failed.

Would you keep that logo in your portfolio.? Yes or no.

Yes because it was a really good looking logo.

Or no because the idea that you made a logo and that company failed would scare a potential?
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Those are good questions. I would probably rework the logo so it was for a made up company and put that in my portfolio.

In my opinion, showing work you did for a failed company is not good for business. Like this entire thread describes many think that logo could be the reason behind the failure..

Most importantly I think, if you are presenting the logo in your portfolio, some of your potential customers may think you handled all their marketing and branding, and that might not be the case. Don't hitch your wagon to a dead horse, just move on I think.
 
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FireSprint.com

FireSprint.com

Trade Only Screen & Digital Sign Printing
Ok last one for a minute here....

What do the last 100 places you spent money at have in common? For some of us they may be companies like:
-Walmart
-Grimco
-Fellers
-McDonalds
-Starbucks
-Home Depot
-Office Max
-Shell Gas Stations
-Safeway
-Target
-UPS

The one thing they all have in common is that if they changed their logos within reason, even to something unappealing (not offensive) you would still buy from them tomorrow just as you have today. And even when you first started buying from most of these places, it had little or nothing to do with their logo. The well lit parking lots or colorful catalog covers peaked your interest first and foremost.

Their logos are just a recognizable symbol for you to associate the quality and service you get from them.

---Don't get all bent out of shape over a brand here. I am responding to the OP of a LOGO.
 
Techman

Techman

New Member
Those who use Dan's services are over a tipping point. They posses a basic understanding of a business marketing plan and then use Dan's services to go to a higher level.

Joe schmoe down the street with his $800 a month rent and living out of his checkbook would never use Dan's agency. That in itself self disqualifies a huge majority of those who would fail as a business great logo or not.

So, I still believe a logo is just a symbol representing the company and people behind it.

This post is about a logo. Not a complete comprehensive marketing plan that Dan would develop.
 
Joe Diaz

Joe Diaz

New Member
I agree with the comments that a business that will invest in professionally created brand and marketing will usually have a successful business because... if they care enough to do that right, chances are they do other things right too. It's like the future parents that buy a bunch of parenting books. Do they become great parents because of what they have learned in those books?, or were they already great parents because they cared enough to go out and get those books in the first place?

However, instead of asking if a businesses success was due to a great logo, I think the question should be will a poorly designed and amateurish looking logo hurts a business? I think the answer to that question is yes. I know for a fact that there are people who, for example, will choose one restaurant that they have never been to over another that they have also never been to, solely on appearance, and the logo is a major factor in that. Same goes for for most other businesses or brands of products. First impressions are huge, after that it's all about the quality of service or product that business offers.

So if you believe that, then it makes sense that a professional attractive looking logo not only advertises a business but also advertises that the business in question cares about what they do and offer. People, if even on just a subconscious level, will pick up on this, and if they are looking for quality will generally make a decision to pick the higher quality brand base on appearance.
 
Tint Guru

Tint Guru

New Member
Bob and Dan

Here is my two cents and I just tint windows!

I've seen this type of argument before between tinters, both always stick to their guns as to how they do things and who is better...but the funny thing is both are great at what they do in their art.

Don't kid yourself here, It's art, and everybody is a critic...especially the guy who is just as good as you.

My take is as follows:
Dan, you designed some great work and found a good job with your ideas.

Bob, you are much like me making money the hard way, doing great work and customer service with less lucrative results.

I'm not trying to decide who wins here, I'm just saying that everybody creative thinks they are better than the next guy.

********. your both knuckleheads for getting into a pissing contest. CP




EDIT QUOTE: "how many guitarists does it take to change a light bulb? ... 50, One to change the bulb and 49 to Gossip on how they could have done it better"
 
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visual800

visual800

Active Member
We are hired to do a job and hopefully we do that job well. Although we may offer tricks and tips that make help a business I do not think we are to high five ourselves if the company succeeds. It is still THEIR business and their decisions whether they are good or bad that will make or break a business.

I understand what Dan is saying about great branding and great marketing and although I will disagree that it is kudos to us for their success. They could do all kinds of stupid things behind the scenes to ruin their business.
 
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