Does your artwork fee mean you hand ownership to customer?

[Custom_Grafx]

Just a basic question...

If you charge your client $200 for an artwork/vector - I see it as them paying for my time, not the file.

I've had a couple of discussions about whether or not the customer is entitled to the final output file and can't seem to get a black/white answer.

In the past, at the customer's request, I have handed it over (they have been regulars etc), but this time, I'm investing quite a bit of time into the job, and I don't really feel like I'm doing myself justice if I hand over the file... but wondering if I should put that into the fine print of my quotation.

In most cases, I supply the customer a 150dpi jpg - not the vector.

What are your thoughts? What do you do?

 

[heyskull]

If they are paying for your time and not getting anything, what are they paying for?
I have a hard enough time getting anyone to understand the time a design takes let alone getting payed for it..
You are doing well getting $200 for artwork.
I personally would give the vector but saved in your signmaking programme file and also a few different resolution jpgs.
I know from personnal experience giving the customer artwork especially after they have paid for it saves you lots of headaches and time from local papers and publishers trying to source this of yourself at a later date.
I would also say to them if they loose their disk it will cost another $200 to replace or an additional fee of $100 everytime requested by a publisher.

SC

 

[jiarby]

how much do you want to get? Everything is negotiable. If the customer wants the file and you want money then you should be able to work it out.

 

[Custom_Grafx]

how much do you want to get? Everything is negotiable. If the customer wants the file and you want money then you should be able to work it out.

Yeah we manage to work things out usually - I haven't run into anything too troublesome yet.

Just wondering if there's a legality thing associated.

Are they paying you for the file? Or are they paying you for the time it takes you to make the file? Technically, should that be sorted out and laid out in the quote/terms and conditions?

 

[kffernandez]

i think that this is very similar to software programmers/consultants and the software they provide their clients. in their case, it has to be clearly stated [in writing] beforehand who owns the software that the programmer produces. either the client buys the rights or is just being provided a license to use the software.

if the client buys the rights to the software [common for fully customized work], the programmer can't use any part of it in his future work. while a license purchase just gets you a copy, and the programmer is free to sell it to anybody else. [usually for minor customization projects]

in the end, i feel that it's all about how much the client is paying, and what you actually agree upon in the first place.

kelly

 

[heyskull]

Come on people if someone charges $200 for a design they should own the rights.
You will end up with a lot of headache in the long run.

SC

 

[PGSigns]

For me it depends on what I was asked to do. If I was given poor quality artwork or asked to make it look like what they have now then the charge is to fix what ever they gave me so I can do the work for them and they don't get a copy. If I am asked to design something for them and they pay me to do it then what I produce is there's and the product is the art work.
Jimmy

 

[Jillbeans]

If a customer hands me a mess on a business card and wants me to be able to put it on the side of their truck, I charge an hourly clean up fee.
That makes it possible for me to use what they had for my files.
They do not own it.
I won't email it to anyone else, (tshirt guy, newspaper) either.
I charge between $25 and $75 an hour depending upon complexity or if I have to send it to the Vector Doctor. And usually it only takes about an hour.
Their knowing of a fee helps them to locate an original file I can use.
Sometimes.

My signs do not include a design fee but I charge according to how much time/thought I will put into it. I always ask the customer first off if they are looking for a logo design.
"No they say" I have this- (something in a Word file their wife cobbled together)
That makes my price go up just a tad because I know I will have to do the old jpeg juggle. If at some later date they want this I will send them a pdf for a set fee, or FW it to their tshirt guy/newspaper etc.

Logo design is entirely different. I charge a lot more and they do get all their files.
After a while I do charge to send files to their tshirt guy/newspaper etc if it's a constant request and they are too lazy or stupid to do it themselves.
So I guess it's different options in different instances.
But I always tell the customer up front.

Basically it boils down to, I'll polish your turd but I won't do it out of the goodness of my heart. Or I'll sell you a gorgeous shiny turd that you can admire forever and show to your friends.
Love.....Jill

 

[Custom_Grafx]

Thanks everyone - I feel it necessary to somewhat specify the nature of the job, as I see it can depend on the situation.

The work is of a technical nature - not of a logo or anything like that.

I guess the closest example I can give in real world terms, is that if someone brought you a sketch of a technical drawing with dimensions, and it was rather fiddly.

Now, the scenario is... they haven't come to me asking for an artwork. They have come to me, asking for a product (in this case a laser cut product). To them, the artwork (seems) irrelevant - they want the product. In order to make that product, the vector artwork needs to be made - which I explained, and they accepted. They have not asked about whether or not they can have that vector artwork - rather, they are more of the type saying "as long as you can reproduce the product down the track for us using that artwork you'll be creating... bla bla"

They don't seem to be too bothered about getting the actual file - more worried about only having to pay for it once - which is totally understandable.

In this particular situation - I'm not in a dilemma - there's no debate happening - I guess I'm simply being proactively curious for any future occasions of such a nature - as it's the type of work I am often presented with but have never had to deal with any major problems yet (nothing i havent been able to handle anyway).

 

[jc1cell]

Well, I usually state to the client in writingthat any artwork done is for the specific use on the product they are ordering ( ie. business cards, banners, vehicle wraps) and in the event they would like to request a file, they would be given the jpg file used for print at the specific required resolution for print ( ie. offset 450dpi, large format 72dpi, grand format 35dpi)

This usually keeps the peace.

jc

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Now, the scenario is... they haven't come to me asking for an artwork. They have come to me, asking for a product (in this case a laser cut product). To them, the artwork (seems) irrelevant - they want the product. In order to make that product, the vector artwork needs to be made - which I explained, and they accepted. They have not asked about whether or not they can have that vector artwork - rather, they are more of the type saying "as long as you can reproduce the product down the track for us using that artwork you'll be creating... bla bla"

I'm a little late to the party on this, but this is something that I'll deal with on quite a frequent basis, but instead of laser cut products they are embroidery products.

If I have to create an Ai or eps file from a raster image, then I typically charge half my hourly rate if they are not wanting the end file. Now my embroidery files are on a fixed rate as the most demanding part of it is getting the vector file itself.

Now as to having to reproduce things down the line, I would come up with some type of archival and retrieval procedure and associated fee(s) as well. Especially if they don't come back to you for quite some time(in terms of a year or more). Who really knows what "down the track" means in terms of actual days, months, years. If they are consistent, quick, and faithful in coming back to you then I wouldn't worry about it, but if you done a couple thousand projects since then, that might be a different thing all together trying to locate their original vector file.

 

[shakey0818]

If a customer hands me a mess on a business card and wants me to be able to put it on the side of their truck, I charge an hourly clean up fee.
That makes it possible for me to use what they had for my files.
They do not own it.
I won't email it to anyone else, (tshirt guy, newspaper) either.
I charge between $25 and $75 an hour depending upon complexity or if I have to send it to the Vector Doctor. And usually it only takes about an hour.
Their knowing of a fee helps them to locate an original file I can use.
Sometimes.

My signs do not include a design fee but I charge according to how much time/thought I will put into it. I always ask the customer first off if they are looking for a logo design.
"No they say" I have this- (something in a Word file their wife cobbled together)
That makes my price go up just a tad because I know I will have to do the old jpeg juggle. If at some later date they want this I will send them a pdf for a set fee, or FW it to their tshirt guy/newspaper etc.

Logo design is entirely different. I charge a lot more and they do get all their files.
After a while I do charge to send files to their tshirt guy/newspaper etc if it's a constant request and they are too lazy or stupid to do it themselves.
So I guess it's different options in different instances.
But I always tell the customer up front.

Basically it boils down to, I'll polish your turd but I won't do it out of the goodness of my heart. Or I'll sell you a gorgeous shiny turd that you can admire forever and show to your friends.
Love.....Jill

Not to bust in on the thread but talking about "the goodness of your heart" Jill nice new picture of your Grandson.

 

[SignManiac]

I always explain to clients that unfortunately, my files are useless to any other companies that might need or want that file. I wrote the code to my design software thirty years ago and it's the only one of it's kind in the world so my files will not work on any other computer ) I can however spend a week to develop a new program that will let them use my files elsewhere but obviously this would incur a charge for my valuable time....

 

[Billct2]

Unless you specifically state in writing that the customer will own the artwork you have no obligation to give it to them.
I wouldn't put artwork used in the creation of a job as a seperate line item in a bill anyhow. It's just, "This is how much it will cost to give you the product you want based on what you gave me to work with".

 

[signage]

Unless you specifically state in writing that the customer will own the artwork you have no obligation to give it to them.
I wouldn't put artwork used in the creation of a job as a seperate line item in a bill anyhow. It's just, "This is how much it will cost to give you the product you want based on what you gave me to work with".

 

[Marlene]

Come on people if someone charges $200 for a design they should own the rights.
You will end up with a lot of headache in the long run.

not really as coming up with a design and selling the design to be used are two different things.

in our quote we have a line item that addresses a design and the fee for it. in that it says that the design is for the purpose making (fill in what you are making) and that nay other use is prohibited. then have a line item with the cost of a CD with the design that can be purchased for whatever othe se they might have.

I have found that if you tell people what to expect, clearly in writing, that there aren't issues as they know what's going on with their job. the trouble comes when they don't have a clue and then you try to tell them that they have to pay for rights or whatever after a job starts.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

I have found that if you tell people what to expect, clearly in writing, that there aren't issues as they know what's going on with their job. the trouble comes when they don't have a clue and then you try to tell them that they have to pay for rights or whatever after a job starts.

I would also add to make sure to go over with them what is written on the paper as well. Sometimes they may not even look until it comes down to paying and what they get for what they pay for. Now that's their fault for not looking at it, but it's still a hassle to deal with.

For the most part though, if you are up front about everything and they are paying attention, most of the time they don't seem to have a problem. It's when it appears that they are broad sided is another story.

 

[HaroldDesign]

I always supply the art in various formats. They can do whatever they want with it. I explain that some people don't, and it becomes a value added selling point. I simply charge accordingly, and it's always more than the other guy, but people buy because they like to know they own it. I'm the first person they come to for print afterwards, too.

 

[LenR]

Your design fee is just that. Usage for the project at hand may be included but beyond that you might want to here what Harlin Ellison has to say.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj5IV23g-fE

Regards

 

[Joe Diaz]

Here is how we handle it at our shop. When the customer comes in, they have the choice of having us design and produce their sign/layout/vehicle lettering for a certain cost, where that design is to only be used on that product... Or they can choose to go the logo design route, where we first design the logo (or really any design) and release the art (at our logo design fee) then use that logo(/design) on their sign project.

Customers can decide not to buy a logo or design first, and later buy the sign design, but they end up paying the same amount if they would have went with a logo from the first place. That seems fair right. Simply put, if the customer want's the artwork in digital format, whether it be a logo or illustration, or anything, they have to pay for that service, whether they decided to do so from the beginning or later, is up to them. (they usually decided to go the logo route from the beginning.) The ONLY way this works for us, is to discuss these options first, before any work is done (even sketches, or concepts) and we also make sure to collect down payments.

The way I see it, if you want to own the artwork we produce, you have to pay for that option, If you don't want to pay to use it, that is fine with us, it will be here waiting for you when you decide to have another sign made.

Since we started doing this, no one once has complained about this policy and as a result we have sold many more logos then we did before we did it this way.