Doing more vehicle wraps - need to add a dedicated wrap printer to our lineup

[RoCo]

We primarily run a Scitex FB6100 UV here, and use it for flatbed, banners, and bus wraps. Boss is pushing van / vehicle wraps more and while the UV is ok for buses, I know cargo vans, etc. require more flexible ink than what our UV inks can generally do. I'd also like a higher rez printer to handle small scale stuff like decals, etc. I ran a solvent Arizona 180 and a Seiko Colorpainter for years doing wraps and never had a worry about that ink fading, but I know solvent printers are frowned upon these days. So now I'm looking at the HP latex printer.

I've heard some negatives: color consistency over long runs, high power usage = long warmup time / buckling media, and the ink actually failing when hit with a heat gun during application on a wrap (though, granted, this was told to me by a salesman).

Is solvent still the way to go? Or is the latex taking over? I know the quality is there and the machine seems to be low maintenance, what about ink longevity?

Thanks for any input!

 

[2B]

we run Roland Eco Sol here and are VERY pleased with the capabilities.


regarding Latex, there are SEVERAL members here are Wrap Gurus (ProWraps, Colorado) who swear by HP and HP is releasing their new line of printers that are suppose to solve the issues
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60kUgPLbc64

 

[petepaz]

we have been using roland printer/cutters for the last 10 or so years and no major problems. easy to use and and the quality is good. i would see what printers are available from close vendors and start your search there. this way you know you have tech support that isn't far away.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

HP Latex has my vote for various reasons. Latex ink longevity is one of the best... we have lots of unlaminated prints that are going on 3+ years.

 

[phototec]

I use a Roland Eco-Solvent printer for vehicle wrap, and have had no problems, however if I were in the market today and had the funding, I would consider a Latex printer.

Solvent and Eco-Solvent – These are the original wrap printers of the industry and use extremely aggressive inks (either solvent or eco-solvent). These printers are known for saturating vinyl with heavy amounts of ink that takes a long time to dry or "out-gas". The main disadvantage of using solvent/eco-solvent printers is that without proper time to out-gas, wraps printed on these printers are prone to failure. This is because the heavy concentration of ink can attack the adhesive on the back of the vinyl and cause it to fail, which puts the wrap at high risk of peeling or bubbling back. Also, prints that are laminated too soon after printing without ample time to out-gas tend to look more cloudy, hazy or bubbly because the ink fumes get trapped underneath the laminate. Solvent/eco-solvent prints need to off-gas for 24-48 hours prior to laminating depending on ink coverage.

Latex – This is the latest and greatest technology in the wrap world and uses less potent inks than solvent printers. Latex printers are unique in that they use multiple fans and extremely high-powered heaters to cure the ink as it is being laid down on the vinyl, resulting in prints that are 100% dry immediately after being printed. Latex printers completely eliminate the need for out-gassing which makes them ideal for the vehicle wrap industry. Moreover, since latex ink’s formulation is naturally more flexible than solvent/eco-solvent ink, it’s ideal for applications requiring vinyl to conform or stretch around curves.

 

[AF]

We run Latex and will confirm that you can laminate immediately after printing and install immediately after laminating with no outgas issues and with normal adhesive performance (no stretchy gooey mess as you get with solvent). If your profiles are wrong, the ink will not be fully cured out of the printer which will cause issues if you don't correct the problem. If you leave the latex machine idle for several days it doesn't clog. No smell either, could be important based on where the machine is located in your facility. The fans are loud.

 

[4R Graphics]

There are so many variables that you must think about and then buy the printer that fits you best.

I run a mimaki JV33 with solvent inks and love it. I know people with latex and they love it.
It really boils down to cost of printer, cost of ink, cost of maintenance, cost of power (latex are 220v) main use, main material type, etc etc etc.



Solvent printers can be found used for good prices and good models that have the bugs worked out (mimaki JV33, Mutohs, roland soljets, etc) latex printers maybe a little more difficult to find the newer models that have addressed some of the initial issues they had.
ink cost not really an issue. Maintenenace not that big of a deal on the solvents but you cant be lazy about it (im sure the latex printers are the same). Do you need to be able to laminate right away or can you wait 24 hours if you cant wait then latex if you can then either one. longevity of print there about the same if your using OEM inks.


Hope that helps some.

 

[Printasaurus]

Latex is very nice if you are in the habit of printing the same day that you are wrapping like when you need to reprint a messed up panel and apply quickly. I do find that the heat activates a lot of adhesive make it it less slippery/repositionable. I really like Avery for its ability to slide around before I press it down. The heat from the latex machines seems to remove a lot of this property, though. The 3M even gets more tacky than when I print on the solvent machines and let it outgas properly. When we stretch dark color, especially when stretched cold, the latex tends to crack and separate rather than stretch out and fade like solvent does. I find that annoying and even though we don't stretch things that often, sometimes you have no choice but to stretch the material. The latex machines maintain themselves and are as close to idiot proof as I've seen, that's how Kinko's and all of these paper places are able to get and keep them running.

Latex
Pros:
No smell
No outgas
Maintenance consists of swapping out cartridges the same way you change ink cartridges

Cons:
Cracking when stretching
High heats can remove some of the adhesive's repositionability properties
HOT! Don't put it in a small room or office
Requires 2 - 220 outlets

Solvent:
Pros:
Faster speeds with equivalent print quality to latex
No heat issues
Lower cost aftermarket inks, depending on what you buy

Cons:
Smell
Outgas time
Rubbery mess when trying to install too soon after printing
Curling edges when contour cut without fully outgassing

At least, that's my experience. Your mileage may vary, though. I've used a lot of both and set my expectation before each wrap according to what printed the wrap and things are ok. For me, most of what matter is in the installation, since power sources, smell, heat, and where the printer is at don't affect me in a giant warehouse.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

Latex is very nice if you are in the habit of printing the same day that you are wrapping like when you need to reprint a messed up panel and apply quickly. I do find that the heat activates a lot of adhesive make it it less slippery/repositionable. I really like Avery for its ability to slide around before I press it down. The heat from the latex machines seems to remove a lot of this property, though. The 3M even gets more tacky than when I print on the solvent machines and let it outgas properly. When we stretch dark color, especially when stretched cold, the latex tends to crack and separate rather than stretch out and fade like solvent does. I find that annoying and even though we don't stretch things that often, sometimes you have no choice but to stretch the material. The latex machines maintain themselves and are as close to idiot proof as I've seen, that's how Kinko's and all of these paper places are able to get and keep them running.

Latex
Pros:
No smell
No outgas
Maintenance consists of swapping out cartridges the same way you change ink cartridges

Cons:
Cracking when stretching
High heats can remove some of the adhesive's repositionability properties
HOT! Don't put it in a small room or office
Requires 2 - 220 outlets

Solvent:
Pros:
Faster speeds with equivalent print quality to latex
No heat issues
Lower cost aftermarket inks, depending on what you buy

Cons:
Smell
Outgas time
Rubbery mess when trying to install too soon after printing
Curling edges when contour cut without fully outgassing

At least, that's my experience. Your mileage may vary, though. I've used a lot of both and set my expectation before each wrap according to what printed the wrap and things are ok. For me, most of what matter is in the installation, since power sources, smell, heat, and where the printer is at don't affect me in a giant warehouse.

That comment about cracking when stretching is wrong... I can stretch our Latex prints to the point of damaged vinyl before it fades to white. The tackyness with heat means that you are running your machine way too hot, most of our materials will fully cure at about 195 degrees if you have the right amount of ink coverage and drying time. Running 2 - 220v Low amp lines is very similar to 2 115v High amp lines, it costs us less then $20/mo in electricity to run our latex.

 

[AF]

I agree about the power consumption being a non-issue.. Plus, you may likely need to run dedicated wiring for any printer so there is no cost savings with either voltage. The higher voltage is much more efficient with generating and maintaining heat with the type of heating elements used by HP.

 

[danno]

If you liked the Arizona 180 and especially the Colorpainter, look at the Seiko M-series.

 

[rjssigns]

we have been using roland printer/cutters for the last 10 or so years and no major problems. easy to use and and the quality is good. i would see what printers are available from close vendors and start your search there. this way you know you have tech support that isn't far away.

X2^^^

To preface my post: I could care less regarding the latex/eco-sol debate. No different than asking what the best beer or truck is. Everyone has a favorite.

You can take the following to the bank and thank me later:

When I look at equipment it's Service, Service, Service. Best printer in the world will die on you at the worst possible time.

If you can't get service right away or if the tech is an idiot you will be the proud owner of a brick until it's fixed.

It's all about up time. Never met a client that liked or accepted excuses why their "chit" wasn't done.

I learned a $15,000.00+ lesson the hard way. Lots of coin gone because I thought I was saving money.

 

[Printasaurus]

That comment about cracking when stretching is wrong... I can stretch our Latex prints to the point of damaged vinyl before it fades to white. The tackyness with heat means that you are running your machine way too hot, most of our materials will fully cure at about 195 degrees if you have the right amount of ink coverage and drying time. Running 2 - 220v Low amp lines is very similar to 2 115v High amp lines, it costs us less then $20/mo in electricity to run our latex.

Perhaps the cracking is heat related. I've had it happen multiple times. I'll see if I can find a picture of some the times that's it's happened.

I recognize that the power draw from the machine isn't a huge load, but the initial installation cost of running more 220 lines can be something to consider when buying the machine.

 

[Hicalibersigns]

Cracking when stretching
High heats can remove some of the adhesive's repositionability properties
HOT! Don't put it in a small room or office

We have been using the HP L25500 for 3 years for lots of wraps. Have never seen any issues with stretching. We have done some motorcycle wraps that involved some extreme stretching.
Also have never had any issues with adhesive. I will qualify that by saying that very early on, we reduced the temperature on every profile. They were all too hot at the default settings.
Our printer is in a small room and again we don't' notice any issues with it being particularly warm in there.

With regard to service, we have been able to take care of all of our issues ourselves. The very reason that we bought the HP was that the service is very simple for the most part. Printheads are consumables. When they die, you just change them out and keep on trucking. For us this has been a great money making machine. I know lots of folks with Rolands that are just as enthusiastic about them, and I have no doubt that they are great, but because of ease of service, we canceled an initial order on a Roland and switched over to the HP.

 

[SightLine]

I do agree that latex (and potentially other new technologies) are the future. That being said, solvent and eco-solvent are far from dead and I doubt they will be for many years. Print manufacturers are still introducing brand new models of solvent printers every year, some like Mimaki, right alongside their new latex offerings (JV400 latex and their just introduced new JV300 solvent based) and other like Roland, Epson, Mutoh, Seiko, etc are all still very active with new solvent printers. I'd say there are far more new solvent printer models than latex..... and as mentioned, aftermarket inks for solvent machines are very well established as well as the widest variety of media availability.

I do like the latex machines though and might eventually consider one when we are in the market for a new printer.