dry erase nightmare!!!

[gabagoo]

I love ranting in here..... No one else around here will listen to me anymore lol

OK so I have an order for 19 dry erase large mock up cheques...24" x 44". I have done these many times over the last few years and as much as I dislike working with the dry erase laminate I generally have no screw ups...until yesterday that is.

I purchased a roll of the dry erase and I have printed all the graphics. I set the roll up in the laminator and start it off and it is running smooth, no problems whatsover. I finish laminating about 9 of them and then I notice that about 3" on the last graphic has no lam on it. Immediately my core temperature starts to rise and the sweat starts on my brow.

I look back over the onesthat have gone through and every single damn ^%$% one of them is missing laminate down this one side. I look at the roll and sure as chit, somehow the stuff broke off within a few inches of starting and somehow stayed on the take up roll...sort of like when masking tape does not come off the roll correctly.

I absolutley lose it and tear everything out of the machine...now remember folks, it's the hottest day of the year and I have no air in the back shop...and I kick the crap out of the graphic in frustration.

Now I figure I will go reprint the 9 and start again tomorrow...
So this morning I get up early to beat the heat and come in to laminate these %^%$'s.

This time I decide to run them in lots of 4 and pre cut the laminate and tape it and run them through. here's the thing though....this laminate is about a 1 ml and thats fine, but the backing paper is thinner than anything I have ever worked with and with the humidity the stuff is curling up as it is exposed off the roll making it very difficult to lay flat to even tape them in place...... Well I am back up in my cool printing room printing 5 more...that makes 14 reprints out of 19!!!
Nothing pisses me off more than wasting print and time.

I had a left over roll of dry erase and threw that on the table and cut down a few pieces and the stuff lay flat, didn't curl and went through the laminator perfectly.

I threw the original roll back into a box and I am sending it back to my supplier and telling him he can eat it or I am gone from any future sales.
I am so tired of some of the stuff we are required to have to try and work with.

thank you for your ears friends......

 

[CalamityJay]

bad corona treatments from china. gotta love it!

i feel for ya, we have lam that did this but it was on thousands of prints. not just a couple.

 

[mark galoob]

just fyi, you can use use regular lam and wet erase markers work fine on them...we use them all the time for that same application

mark galoob

 

[Gino]

We only do that in a jam.......:Oops:

 

[CanuckSigns]

I think I know the exact laminate you are talking about, it's like working with tissue paper, if you look at it the wrong way it tears, very frustrating!

Like someone else said, we use oraguard 210 gloss for dry erase applications, never had an issue. if the customer leaves the marker on for a long time without erasing, a bit of alcohol takes it right off!

 

[anotherdog]

I feel for you.
I get to do batches of dry-erase and it's always a Pita, It's a harder flatter material than ordinary lam and for some reason always on thin flimsy tearable backing paper.

The stuff is born to wrinkle so your humidity was the killer for the lam and the heat was the killer for you.

At least today is cooler in the GTA.

 

[Farmboy]

just fyi, you can use use regular lam and wet erase markers work fine on them...we use them all the time for that same application

This.

 

[gabagoo]

Regular laminate might work, but if your selling a large corperate client a dry erase item, then it only stands to use the appropriate material made for the job.

I have tested regular laminate and yes it can work, but if you leave that marker on over a period of time it will stain the material making it useless.

BTW I ordered a roll of arctic from ND and it sits flat and does not curl up so there are better materials out there...just need to find them.

Hey Scott, I wonder if the write on laminate is made by Ritrama?

 

[mark galoob]

id sell regular lam with a wet erase system to any large corp out there. its professional looking, works fine, and leaves no residue and will stay on the board for months untill it is wiped off with water, then it wipes off clean as a whistle...

ps i use this system in my store all the time with no issues whatsoever.

mark galoob

 

[gabagoo]

id sell regular lam with a wet erase system to any large corp out there. its professional looking, works fine, and leaves no residue and will stay on the board for months untill it is wiped off with water, then it wipes off clean as a whistle...

ps i use this system in my store all the time with no issues whatsoever.

mark galoob

I'm not saying I dont belive you but then why do they sell dry erase laminate?

 

[anotherdog]

I have seen regular lam used as dry-erase, it's softer so works fine at first, but after a few months of regular use it begins to score the lam and leave ink trapped in the scores.
It's not how long the ink is on, it's how many times it is DRY ERASED.

Dry Erase lam is a harder shinier surface, resists scratching. The hardness with out elasticity is one of the reasons it's a pain to handle.

If you look at the anti vandal lam, thats the same sort of surface.

 

[Bigdawg]

I can't recommend this stuff enough. We ordered a small roll and love it.

Vandalguard 3 in 1

Didn't have any trouble working with it and it is optically clear to boot so we can use it on the perf material. Just good all-round material.

 

[Out There]

With Vandalguard what ever you do, don't use a blue expo marker.

It will leave some very bad ghosting. Had to replace 4 menu boards because of that issue.

 

[MikeH]

Most dry-erase film is OPP Oriented Polypropylene. The surface tension is good for a dry-erase corona treatment improves the product. A higher treatment level and the ink sticks better, too high and it is difficult to get off cleanly. Too low a surface tension and the marker beads up. Some film is coated on the surface so it is more scratch resistant and therefore works better longer.
We have seen a lot of film coming in from China at very low prices and as a rule these are the problems we have seen.
1. Although they have the basic ingredients they lack the experience and the training to put them together so it works. A great chef can make a fantastic with the same ingredients my Ex could ruin dinner with.
2. Resin cost, the basic material the film is made from, are a traded commodity world wide. It is not 1/2 price in China, with freight it may be more landed. China's big advantage is in labor cost, in this product the labor cost is minimal. A coater running at 1,000 feet per minute at 60" to 80" wide is burning through raw material so fast that it does not matter much. So they have to scrimp on the quality of the raw material or on the gauge/thickness or on the liner. From what I have seen it is all of them.
3. If they bother to corona treat at all, thus adding cost, an OPP film will dissipate the treatment after about 6 months. Say two weeks in the warehouse over in China two weeks on the dock three in transit, two to clear customs...... Well you see, you have a tight window to make it perform at its best. This is critical for heat activated film and probably less for PS.
You vender needs to know. He thought he found a better price on the same old thing, he probably has never run any of it. Educate him you both will be better for it. If he does not care then you have a different problem. He saved you $10.00 on a roll of film that cost you a lot more.

 

[Vandal Guard USA]

Use Rapid Remover and any ghosting should come right off. Rapid Remover has blended naphtha in it (lighter fluid) which we have come to find out even removes Sharpie and spray paint.

 

[carter75]

We did a job approximately 15 months or so ago, about 50 2'x3' prints for our hospital. The were just graphics with dry-erase lam that we installed for them outside of rooms so that they could change information on a regular basis and so forth. About a month ago we got a call saying that something is wrong with them. After inspecting for ourselves we found that the lam is actually lifting from the vinyl! So after rounds with the supplier they finally admitted that it must have been a flaw in the laminate we received. So they gave us a new roll of a different lam and vinyl, but now we have to reprint, re-lam, remove all the old graphics, and install the new ones!

 

[CanuckSigns]

We did a job approximately 15 months or so ago, about 50 2'x3' prints for our hospital. The were just graphics with dry-erase lam that we installed for them outside of rooms so that they could change information on a regular basis and so forth. About a month ago we got a call saying that something is wrong with them. After inspecting for ourselves we found that the lam is actually lifting from the vinyl! So after rounds with the supplier they finally admitted that it must have been a flaw in the laminate we received. So they gave us a new roll of a different lam and vinyl, but now we have to reprint, re-lam, remove all the old graphics, and install the new ones!

i would never trust a dry erase laminate for a permanent sign, wrong product for the job. these should have been made with an actual dry erase surface (marker board or porcelain coated metal)

Dry erase laminates are fine for big cheques and such, but not for permanent signage.