Hi, I need some help about printhead DX5 F18600. I believe it is water base head. I heard that I can use solvent in manifold on the head and it will work? Does any one had any experience using this head. Is it a good idea to go that way or not. I need advise. I have very limited production. Which making me to not invest on real solvent ink print head. Please help me to make a good decision. thanks.
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Dx 5 printhead F18600
- Thread starter dishhobby
- Start date
I just asked substantially the same question in this same forum four days ago: http://www.signs101.com/forums/show...(Epson-1400-1900-etc-)-in-a-ValueJet-Possible.
Based on my research and as you have suggested, all Epson heads are the same (but the manifolds are different). Therefore, the head is a "dummy" so solvent ink will not damage a water based head. Unfortunately, the manifold and gasket may/will need to be changed. This could be accomplished for the DX4 head rather easily, but as I understand it, the DX5 head is sealed to the manifold so you would need to determine how/what sealant to use on the new manifold. It may leak or may not leak, I haven't found anyone who has converted a DX5 head.
The other issue may be the head ranking. There has been a lot of bantering back and forth if the head rank is an issue or not. Some claim it is a generic number assigned by Epson that is basically insignificant. Others claim it is a precise number specific per manufacturer (or even a particular head) that tells the printer the exact voltage to use.
Apparently at some point people were buying the cheaper water based heads and putting them in solvent machines and Epson became aware of this issue and locked the newer heads. The lock basically caused the ink to drop out after so many lines of print. However, in an effort to stay ahead, decoder cards were developed (and still sold today) that unlocks the heads.
Here are some threads that may help with this issue:
http://www.signs101.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-56301.html
http://www.signs101.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-94834.html
http://www.signs101.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-118498.html
Based on my research and as you have suggested, all Epson heads are the same (but the manifolds are different). Therefore, the head is a "dummy" so solvent ink will not damage a water based head. Unfortunately, the manifold and gasket may/will need to be changed. This could be accomplished for the DX4 head rather easily, but as I understand it, the DX5 head is sealed to the manifold so you would need to determine how/what sealant to use on the new manifold. It may leak or may not leak, I haven't found anyone who has converted a DX5 head.
The other issue may be the head ranking. There has been a lot of bantering back and forth if the head rank is an issue or not. Some claim it is a generic number assigned by Epson that is basically insignificant. Others claim it is a precise number specific per manufacturer (or even a particular head) that tells the printer the exact voltage to use.
Apparently at some point people were buying the cheaper water based heads and putting them in solvent machines and Epson became aware of this issue and locked the newer heads. The lock basically caused the ink to drop out after so many lines of print. However, in an effort to stay ahead, decoder cards were developed (and still sold today) that unlocks the heads.
Here are some threads that may help with this issue:
http://www.signs101.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-56301.html
http://www.signs101.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-94834.html
http://www.signs101.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-118498.html
SightLine
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As far as use on a Mutoh, I cannot comment since I do not have a Mutoh. I do not know what those use regarding the head rank numbers. Aside from that the manifold is not sealed to a DX5 head in any special way. Just unscrew it from the head and replace it. I've been using a water based DX5 head in our solvent Mimaki for a couple of years now with no issues. I just reused the head manifold off the old head.
Sightline - So you just plug and play? Very interesting..I suspect a lot of the mumbo jumbo is if the general public knew the same exact head that is in a $500 water-based printer is in also in a $14K solvent printer they wouldn't be willing to pay five times more for the solvent head. I suspect it is all smoke and mirrors...
Vinylman
New Member
Attachments
artbot
New Member
i've mentioned this before in previous threads. i once disassembled a 10,000 series epson head assembly (three dx4 heads). they had a nice little sticker on each one showing the epson head rank. the sticker seemed a little thick so then i peeled it off and directly under it was a roland sticker, and directly under it was a mimaki sticker. they were perfectly aligned as if they'd been die cut all at once. so forever and ever "there is no such thing as an OEM head". they are all the same head.
SightLine
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Except for the one gotcha on the green connector Mimaki heads. They have a different resistance on one of the lines which JV5 and JV33/CJV machines with firmware above a certain level detect. If you try to install a black connector DX5 head on a JV5 (any firmware), JV33 (firmware above 3.x), or CJV (not sure on what firmware versions) they will reject the head with a "device construction error".
Also current and most all Epson DX5 heads made in the past 2 years for smaller width machines like the Epson R2000 desktop printers also now have some additional circuitry added to the head by Epson that restricts the print width that the head will print in one pass. If you try and install one on a larger printer the printing will have about a 1/2" gap every 20 inches. The Chinese have come up with a board and additional set of head cables to install inline with the head to work around that which I have seen for sale on ebay for a couple hundred bucks.
Also current and most all Epson DX5 heads made in the past 2 years for smaller width machines like the Epson R2000 desktop printers also now have some additional circuitry added to the head by Epson that restricts the print width that the head will print in one pass. If you try and install one on a larger printer the printing will have about a 1/2" gap every 20 inches. The Chinese have come up with a board and additional set of head cables to install inline with the head to work around that which I have seen for sale on ebay for a couple hundred bucks.
That is correct. You can actually get the cards as cheap as $60 now.
smithcolor
New Member
First, F186000 is DX5 solvent head, not water based head.
but if you want fit it on Mutoh head, you need a Mutoh manifold, because F186000 manifold can not fit on Mutoh printer.
F161000 and F158000 is DX5 water head, they can fit on Mutoh printer directly.
Second, If you get new DX5 head (locked), you have to get decode card from China.
it is my experience.
good luck.
Smith
but if you want fit it on Mutoh head, you need a Mutoh manifold, because F186000 manifold can not fit on Mutoh printer.
F161000 and F158000 is DX5 water head, they can fit on Mutoh printer directly.
Second, If you get new DX5 head (locked), you have to get decode card from China.
it is my experience.
good luck.
Smith
may be F160010?
thesignworks
New Member
hello
iI have just fitted this mutoh vj dx5 manifold
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251728193434?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
to en epson 4450/4880, using a stock although solvent damper set
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221353572724?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
of which you then need to fit large solvent nuts and o-rings thus
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261675364516?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
why are you telling us this I hear you ask - well, its because there are valves these solvent pp dampers that will only open when ink is sucked from below, and thus you don't get the leak back, although you still have to do the 3.6mm to 1.9mm adaptor for mutoh lines
just a shame I didn't order this
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251734519992?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
as mine doesn't seal any more, It did then I wiped it with solvent cleaner and it stopped sealing.
I have to take the maintenance station out for the seventh time anyway when this finally arrives
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171564554519?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
I was worrying about these,
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251753872477?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
but they seem fine, I also though the lines would swell up, they have been ok for a day.
so to 're-cap' har bloody har pun......
the actual rubber in a water head cap top can be erased with solvent cleaner, which then leads to the next question
EVEN IF you use a solvent manifold on a water based head IS THE RUBBER GASKET FROM YOUR WATER HEAD GOING TO SOFTEN AND LOOSE ITS ABILITY TO SEAL.
well thats my question anyway, but it seems alright so far = 1 day
iI have just fitted this mutoh vj dx5 manifold
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251728193434?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
to en epson 4450/4880, using a stock although solvent damper set
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221353572724?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
of which you then need to fit large solvent nuts and o-rings thus
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261675364516?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
why are you telling us this I hear you ask - well, its because there are valves these solvent pp dampers that will only open when ink is sucked from below, and thus you don't get the leak back, although you still have to do the 3.6mm to 1.9mm adaptor for mutoh lines
just a shame I didn't order this
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251734519992?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
as mine doesn't seal any more, It did then I wiped it with solvent cleaner and it stopped sealing.
I have to take the maintenance station out for the seventh time anyway when this finally arrives
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171564554519?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
I was worrying about these,
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251753872477?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
but they seem fine, I also though the lines would swell up, they have been ok for a day.
so to 're-cap' har bloody har pun......
the actual rubber in a water head cap top can be erased with solvent cleaner, which then leads to the next question
EVEN IF you use a solvent manifold on a water based head IS THE RUBBER GASKET FROM YOUR WATER HEAD GOING TO SOFTEN AND LOOSE ITS ABILITY TO SEAL.
well thats my question anyway, but it seems alright so far = 1 day
smithcolor
New Member
utmtech
New Member
I have a water-based DX5 epson head in my 9800 that I was considering swapping into my Mutoh VJ1204, who all has actually done a similar swap?
Are the solvent DX5 heads not "locked", but the water based ones require an unlocker chip?
Will this work within spec and produce like quality?
smithcolor
New Member
1, Yes, Epson 9800 head (F160010) head can swap to Mutoh VJ1204, but it can only work with water based ink.
2, Both DX5 solvent and DX5 water head locked from 2012, but there are still old version DX5 head (solvent and water based) available now. They are old version head produced before Nov. 2012.
3, Old version DX5 head and locked DX5 head with decoder can work on Mutoh VJ1204 / VJ1304 / VJ1604 well.
Good luck!
Smith
utmtech
New Member
Thank you!
thesignworks
New Member
hello
well my 4450 saga continues.
its been 2 weeks and nothing has leaked at the carts - the lines havn't swollen and popped
the dampers and manifold are good.
had the maintenance staion in and out 35 times
had the head off 25 times.
you cannot fit the 4 by 2mm solvent lines directly to the head capping and run them through the pump, the pump works BUT due to the tubeing being MUCH MORE rigid than the little black rubber pipes that come from the cap, the cap top spring isn't strong enough to hold it down, so the head has worn away one of the caps I bought
-so I refitted the stock lines, there is a clock arrow on the pump - I don't know where its supposed to go - i didn't think it matters?
I think the main drive has a timing mark to the outer gear set and the carriage up and down
anyways my problem is the head won't sit on the cap and suck, which was the original problem - i think the head won't move down onto the cap?
I think i have broken the printer, or the head position is wrong - in as much as the belt position and motor, to carriage position and encoder - I don't know, its quite frustrating.
well my 4450 saga continues.
its been 2 weeks and nothing has leaked at the carts - the lines havn't swollen and popped
the dampers and manifold are good.
had the maintenance staion in and out 35 times
had the head off 25 times.
you cannot fit the 4 by 2mm solvent lines directly to the head capping and run them through the pump, the pump works BUT due to the tubeing being MUCH MORE rigid than the little black rubber pipes that come from the cap, the cap top spring isn't strong enough to hold it down, so the head has worn away one of the caps I bought
-so I refitted the stock lines, there is a clock arrow on the pump - I don't know where its supposed to go - i didn't think it matters?
I think the main drive has a timing mark to the outer gear set and the carriage up and down
anyways my problem is the head won't sit on the cap and suck, which was the original problem - i think the head won't move down onto the cap?
I think i have broken the printer, or the head position is wrong - in as much as the belt position and motor, to carriage position and encoder - I don't know, its quite frustrating.
