Eco-Solvent Ink curing - especially on banners.

[petesign]

JV33 printing on banners can be problematic for me. The ink never seems to cure or set. We had one banner that sat for over a week, sure enough it got folder onto itself because we were careless and busy, and even after a week, it stuck together. Sitting inside a air conditioned room.

Anybody out there using eco-solvent inks figure out how to make these inks set better/more scratch resistant? I can't see myself laminating banners... so I don't know what to do. I always strongly caution my customers not to fold their banner, but to roll it up after use. It never fails they fold it, and call me complaining about how the ink stuck together or came off.

 

[CheapVehicleWrap]

Are you using a banner profile? How about you're heaters? Mine are dry in no time. I imagine you couldn't run anything long enough to go on a take up reel from what you're describing.

 

[petesign]

pre and print heat settings are 40 degrees and post is 45. It's dry enough for the take up roll by the time it gets there for the most part, unless it's got a lot of black ink on it, then it's close. If I print 12 pass it's generally okay. It's not that it isn't dry enough to go on the take up roll, it's that the ink doesn't seem to bite into the vinyl enough to prevent easy scratches, or if you (god forbid) fold it over on itself, forget it.... the ink sticks together... even after a week. This problem seems to be the worst on banners - and unless I am making a "fathead" or a temporary coroplast sign - they are almost all laminated, so it's not the end of the world there. Banners though, don't seem to cure.

 

[1leonchen]

do u have any 500 watt halogen light around. if u had 4 of the you could put the around 14 to 20 inches from the media. also i used a dehumidifier if u have one and put the fan to blow across the media meaning on the edge of the media. i used to run a Seiko 64s where i learned the trade it was the only way to dry the print before the take up reel. the supervisor always ripped vehicle graphics in high speed mode. and black was always the hardest to dry.

why don't u look at media dryers for solvent printers. same principle only infrared panels.

 

[Mike Paul]

What brand of material are you printing on?

 

[CheapVehicleWrap]

Yeah, does it do it on ALL banner materials? I run 35/38/50 for 13 oz

 

[petesign]

I am printing on 13oz Elite Banner, glossy. Hardly ever use anything else. I might try a roll of matte next time and see if it's the finish on the banner making it so scratch prone.

 

[gabagoo]

I am not sure of your Mimaki model but if the heads can be set to thick, then do that to start as I had the same problem when our machine was new and basically feared printing banners until I found this site and learnt that I can adjust the heads myself.
I place a floor fan in front of the graphics before they wind up to accelerate the drying also.
I know the ink is dry for me, but I am very careful handling them for hemming and grommeting as scuffs can and will happen if you are careless.

 

[petesign]

The ink is dry enough by the time it hits the take up roll... they just don't set hard enough. Very scratch prone, and if someone folds the banner ink side to ink side, forget about it - that banner is toast - even if it's over a week old.

I wonder if my banner profile is putting down too much ink?

 

[Letterbox Mike]

Are you using SS21 inks or ES3?

Turn your post heater up to 50.

Consider getting a roll-up dryer like the Digi-Dri if you do a lot of banners. We have one, we crank it up to high on banners and never have a problem with SS21 inks. The inks do remain a little "soft" for a while but with the dryer running we can handle and finish banners directly off the machine without fear of damaging them, unless the ink coverage is heavy black, then we wait a couple hours if possible.

No matter what, with our JV33, we've never had the issue of ink sticking to ink. It'll stick to itself a little bit, makes sort of a static electricity sound when you pull it apart, but it's never damaged a print. Same with our JV3. Self adhesive vinyl is another story altogether though.

 

[anotherdog]

If after a week your banners are still tacky enough for ink to glue to ink I think it has to be the banner.
I have had banner materials like that, tried every combination of heat and profile. In the end I solved it by moving to a different banner stock.

I have a couple of stocks, I run hot (46-50) on the printer, they are completely touch dry (with no ink transfer) by the time they roll. I don't have extra heat just whats on the printer.

Why not experiment with other banners?

 

[petesign]

I am running ES3 inks. Wish I had gone with the SS21 now. I will give a different banner material a shot next time.

What do you guys like/recommend?

 

[DarbySign]

If I know a banner is going to get abused, I roll on a single coat of Clearstar original semi-gloss.

 

[Rooster]

That sounds like a really strange problem. Do you have any idea what the humidity levels are in your shop? Are you storing and printing the vinyl in a controlled environment?

I can print banners and within 10 minutes can put them ink-to-ink using a variety of banner materials and ES3 inks. I usually run 40-40-50 for heat settings, but the problematic stocks sometimes have to run 40-0-50 to prevent any warping of the material as it goes through the printer.

I lay down a ton of ink too.

 

[gabagoo]

If after a week your banners are still tacky enough for ink to glue to ink I think it has to be the banner.
I have had banner materials like that, tried every combination of heat and profile. In the end I solved it by moving to a different banner stock.

I have a couple of stocks, I run hot (46-50) on the printer, they are completely touch dry (with no ink transfer) by the time they roll. I don't have extra heat just whats on the printer.

Why not experiment with other banners?

who's banner stock do you find prints well in a scrim banner material?
and who sells it?

 

[john1]

I use a Roland with ECO inks on jetflexx and it works great. I just use the Generic Banner 1 profile. I use matte banner material though, i heard it sticks better.

 

[cdiesel]

Ultraflex is king for banners. For literally two cents a foot, why use anything else?

 

[jasonx]

Are you leaving your banners wound up on a core for a week? Or loosing unwinding them and leaving them upright so air can get in between each of the layers?

 

[anotherdog]

who's banner stock do you find prints well in a scrim banner material?
and who sells it?

Two favourites:

Banner Brite a scrim from ND graphics high gloss, prints very nicely, is dry almost instantly...a little weak for prolonged outdoor use.

Premium Banner from Allgraphics. This is a satin banner I use for indoor and out, low glare, nice smooth surface like a soft rubber.

I have half a dozen others for odd uses, but I like these.

 

[petesign]

Switched to some Key Banner 13oz. matte today, and reprinted a banner for a guy who folded his a week after it was printed. Of course, it was solid black (why does everybody want a black banner these days - takes a ton of ink) anyway.. it did seem to dry a lot faster on the matte finish.

However, it still seems to be easily scratched - an hour after printing, I was able to scratch a sample just lightly running my fingernail over the print.

Is this an ES3 issue? Before when I used a JV3 and SS21 inks, they didn't scratch like this, and the ink sure didn't stick together as bad as this does. This is a picture of the banner he folded up. You can see in the red letter "S" where the black had smudged all over it, and how much black ink had come off of the surface when he folded it. Keep in mind, this banner had been printed a week prior, and sat our hung up for a few days.

 

[john1]

I noticed that if you scratch a banner it will show a wear mark too. I've tried this on other banners i've seen printed locally and it must be the way it is.

I never fold banners, i only roll them.