Employee mistakes

[Gino]

Just to be clear, I don't actually own the business, so I don't pay the bills. There is plenty of research that shows that employees are happier and more productive when they're given incentives instead of punishments. On time bonuses that are factored into hourly wages aren't any different than paying sales people commissions. It gives employees accountability and rewards it. Show up for work on time, get a little extra money. Don't show up for work on time, don't get extra money.

We have lots of incentives here and they absolutely work. We even have an "employee of the week" incentive where employees get votes from each other for going above and beyond and helping each other out. It's not much, enough to buy your lunch for a couple days, but it makes a huge difference.

We've got an amazing crew here and it's in no small part to benefits and incentives. People know that they'll get rewarded for their hard work and it shows. If you give people a reason to go above and beyond, they will. If you punish people for making mistakes, they're just going to do whatever it takes to not get fired.

Perhaps, your boss should look at his pay scale a little closer. If you hafta play games with incentives or weekly bonuses, why not just raise the pay scale and get rid of the dead wood who can't play by the rules ??

Show up to work on time and get a bonus ?? You consider coming in late and getting talked to after a few times of this a punishment ?? Who's in the wrong ??

People will get rewards for going above and beyond the call of duty, for getting things done in a better way or method, coming in and working extra hours, taking responsibility for their actions.... but not for showing up on time or being liked by everybody.

If they go home on time, do they get another bonus ??


We used to have a guy some years ago, who could never get here on time, but he worked about an hour or so overtime everyday and not put it on his time sheet. We worked around it. Had another guy come in about 20 minutes before the bell, drank some coffee, got his brushes together, cleaned off some benches and just did mindless things and left 3 minutes after 5pm. He didn't clock out on my time. So, he should get more money, than the guy who worked more hours ??

 

[player]

All these issues are why I downsized and work on my own, and hire as needed as little as possible.

 

[Andy D]

Hi all,

Again, how you guys deal with your employee mistakes especially when it's big in coast, I returned lately from the SEMA show to realize that half of my tools were missing because my employee didn't park our bucket inside before leaving to his holiday, on top of that he hit the garage door with the bucket damaging first 2 panels, and I had to review my recording on cameras to know what happened when I was away, because when I ask him, he admit it and said that he didn't want to ruin my mood during the show, but sure that's what happened when I discover that.

Just wondering how do you solve this kind of issues, not sure if you can charge him for damage or just ignore it and swallow the cost, insurance wont cover that too.

I don't know, I don't get mad if someone screws up a print or sign due to a bone-head mistake,
mistakes and redos are part of the cost of being in custom sign/print business, and if you don't make a stupid mistake at least once a week, you're
probably not busy enough....

But this goes way beyond that, it's negligence and total disregard for your employer's property, and he wasn't forthcoming either,
do you think he would have owned up to it if you didn't have it on video? Did he offer to fix the damage on his own time?
This would be like me leaving without shutting down the printers correctly and screwing up the print heads.

I hate to say it, but I would probably ax him before he got someone hurt.

 

[player]

The big question is "What will he destroy next?"

Might be time for a preemptive strike...

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

Perhaps, your boss should look at his pay scale a little closer. If you hafta play games with incentives or weekly bonuses, why not just raise the pay scale and get rid of the dead wood who can't play by the rules ??

Show up to work on time and get a bonus ?? You consider coming in late and getting talked to after a few times of this a punishment ?? Who's in the wrong ??

People will get rewards for going above and beyond the call of duty, for getting things done in a better way or method, coming in and working extra hours, taking responsibility for their actions.... but not for showing up on time or being liked by everybody.

If they go home on time, do they get another bonus ??


We used to have a guy some years ago, who could never get here on time, but he worked about an hour or so overtime everyday and not put it on his time sheet. We worked around it. Had another guy come in about 20 minutes before the bell, drank some coffee, got his brushes together, cleaned off some benches and just did mindless things and left 3 minutes after 5pm. He didn't clock out on my time. So, he should get more money, than the guy who worked more hours ??

Well, like I said, it's worked into the pay rate. Someone who makes $10.50 an hour with an on time bonus and doesn't show to work on time is only getting $10 an hour. They're effectively punishing themselves by not coming to work on time.

It's not playing games, it's making people accountable, as well as giving them some self-management and motivation.

Getting chewed out for being late IS punishment. People respond better to the carrot than the stick. The difference is that people around here KNOW that by working hard and doing good work there are going to be rewards. They're not afraid that if they mess up a sign they're going to get screamed at or canned. It also leads to people being more creative and coming up with solutions to problems that wouldn't happen if they were afraid of messing something up and getting in trouble. People self manage here, and it's pretty awesome. Several processes have been improved by employees coming up with new ways to do things, because they're not worried about getting in trouble for not doing something the "right" way. Some SOPs and best practices have changed because of this.

It's not going to work for everybody, obviously, but creating an environment where people are given tools to succeed instead of just coming in and punching a clock has definitely made this a great place. There are always going to be slouches, but you can weed them out, and there's something to be said for the guy or gal who comes in and punches in, does their work, then punches out.

As far as negligence goes, if it's common place and recurring, it might be time to start looking at other option. Especially if it could lead to someone getting injured on the hob.

 

[Billct2]

Rick Williams mentioned something like this in the column he writes for Sign & Digital Graphics magazine. Another local sign shop has this policy....."Employees have an extra $200 in their monthly pay, and they only get all of it if there are zero violations."
I think it sounds like a good idea.
Here's the link to the whole story, I like his columns, they are about the real experience of running a small sign shop

http://sdgmag.com/features/trenches-buddy-wont-you-give-me-lift

 

[Gino]

Rick Williams mentioned something like this in the column he writes for Sign & Digital Graphics magazine. Another local sign shop has this policy....."Employees have an extra $200 in their monthly pay, and they only get all of it if there are zero violations."
I think it sounds like a good idea.
Here's the link to the whole story, I like his columns, they are about the real experience of running a small sign shop

http://sdgmag.com/features/trenches-buddy-wont-you-give-me-lift

Now that makes sense. Here, we are talking about safety features and cleanliness so the next guy doesn't hafta waste time picking up after someone else or someone falling or having a stupid accident due to negligence. I can totally agree with that.

Well, like I said, it's worked into the pay rate. Someone who makes $10.50 an hour with an on time bonus and doesn't show to work on time is only getting $10 an hour. They're effectively punishing themselves by not coming to work on time.

It's not playing games, it's making people accountable, as well as giving them some self-management and motivation.

Getting chewed out for being late IS punishment. People respond better to the carrot than the stick. The difference is that people around here KNOW that by working hard and doing good work there are going to be rewards. They're not afraid that if they mess up a sign they're going to get screamed at or canned. It also leads to people being more creative and coming up with solutions to problems that wouldn't happen if they were afraid of messing something up and getting in trouble. People self manage here, and it's pretty awesome. Several processes have been improved by employees coming up with new ways to do things, because they're not worried about getting in trouble for not doing something the "right" way. Some SOPs and best practices have changed because of this.

It's not going to work for everybody, obviously, but creating an environment where people are given tools to succeed instead of just coming in and punching a clock has definitely made this a great place. There are always going to be slouches, but you can weed them out, and there's something to be said for the guy or gal who comes in and punches in, does their work, then punches out.

As far as negligence goes, if it's common place and recurring, it might be time to start looking at other option. Especially if it could lead to someone getting injured on the hob.

However, rewarding someone for showing up on time is still pure nonsense. If you are late, you are late. You are in the wrong and if you want a liberal view on that getting paid extra for doing what you're supposed to be doing in the first place, well, I guess your boss is just desperate to have someone work for them regardless of their work ethics.

When someone messes something up here at our shop or in any line of business, they are not screamed at or reamed out for a mistake. In my case, I take full responsibility for not placing someone within their capabilities..... or did that person fib a little about what the could really do ?? Nonetheless, a little note goes into their file, corrections are made and if it happens again another note goes into their file and then they are expected to explain why they fail so much. Are they in over their head. Are they dumb ?? Do they not care ?? What ?? We need to correct it, not reward it.

If an employee is given free range to do whatever..... what the heck does your boss do when confronted with a real problem ?? Uh-oh..... Jimmie just cut the main hose to the printer BY ACCIDENT/on purpose and we have ink spraying all over the place, air gushing in all the main couplers and the machines are now starving. Well, first of all, give Jimmie a $20 bonus for reporting it quickly. What was he doing when this happened. Well, he thought if he shortened the hose, we'd need less pressure saving money on the main compressor. He forgot to turn everything off and get the air outta the lines beforehand. Oh, Okay )))



Don't get me wrong nid.... if it works by paying more for things that should already be being paid for by their normal pay, by all means reward people for doing that which they are already being paid for. I like free. Everyone likes free. I just don't like being taken advantage of.

So, if I continually come in at 10 or 15 minutes after 8am, I get my regular pay. [Something I did not agree to when signing on]. If I come in at 8 on the button, I get extra money. Still seems dumb to me, but that seems to be the mindset of the new workforce.... pay people for nothing extra. Reward that kid for showing up to practice, even though he fumbled the ball everytime he got his hands on it and give Suzy a reward for screeching on her clarinet. She never practiced, but she tried.

 

[Andy D]

Well, like I said, it's worked into the pay rate. Someone who makes $10.50 an hour with an on time bonus and doesn't show to work on time is only getting $10 an hour. They're effectively punishing themselves by not coming to work on time.

It's not playing games, it's making people accountable, as well as giving them some self-management and motivation.

.

I think it's a good idea, it puts a definitive amount on being late, and I can tell you if my Wife saw that my pay was being cut because I'm a sloth getting out the door in the morning,
she sure as sh*t would make sure my butt was backing out the driveway on time

We have the opposite approach, I truly believe in treating employees like professional adults that are capable taking ownership of projects and see them through.
We don't have strict set hours for most employees in my department, we all know what we have to get done, and by when, and will stay late or come in early if needed.
On the flip side, if someone is out sick or needs a mental health day off, unless they're in the hospital, it's their responsibility to make sure someone has their jobs covered,
don't call me, call a co-worker and work it out... and if that co-worker drops the ball, it's still the person who is out's fault.. so they better check in through out the day and and make sure their jobs
are being done.

My newest favorite saying is "Teach your garden to weed itself" Meaning, set up a system that your day to day headaches go away because they take care of themselves. I think this applies to both approaches.

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

Now that makes sense. Here, we are talking about safety features and cleanliness so the next guy doesn't hafta waste time picking up after someone else or someone falling or having a stupid accident due to negligence. I can totally agree with that.



However, rewarding someone for showing up on time is still pure nonsense. If you are late, you are late. You are in the wrong and if you want a liberal view on that getting paid extra for doing what you're supposed to be doing in the first place, well, I guess your boss is just desperate to have someone work for them regardless of their work ethics.

When someone messes something up here at our shop or in any line of business, they are not screamed at or reamed out for a mistake. In my case, I take full responsibility for not placing someone within their capabilities..... or did that person fib a little about what the could really do ?? Nonetheless, a little note goes into their file, corrections are made and if it happens again another note goes into their file and then they are expected to explain why they fail so much. Are they in over their head. Are they dumb ?? Do they not care ?? What ?? We need to correct it, not reward it.

If an employee is given free range to do whatever..... what the heck does your boss do when confronted with a real problem ?? Uh-oh..... Jimmie just cut the main hose to the printer BY ACCIDENT/on purpose and we have ink spraying all over the place, air gushing in all the main couplers and the machines are now starving. Well, first of all, give Jimmie a $20 bonus for reporting it quickly. What was he doing when this happened. Well, he thought if he shortened the hose, we'd need less pressure saving money on the main compressor. He forgot to turn everything off and get the air outta the lines beforehand. Oh, Okay )))



Don't get me wrong nid.... if it works by paying more for things that should already be being paid for by their normal pay, by all means reward people for doing that which they are already being paid for. I like free. Everyone likes free. I just don't like being taken advantage of.

So, if I continually come in at 10 or 15 minutes after 8am, I get my regular pay. [Something I did not agree to when signing on]. If I come in at 8 on the button, I get extra money. Still seems dumb to me, but that seems to be the mindset of the new workforce.... pay people for nothing extra. Reward that kid for showing up to practice, even though he fumbled the ball everytime he got his hands on it and give Suzy a reward for screeching on her clarinet. She never practiced, but she tried.

I think maybe you're misconstruing what I'm saying.

We're not technically rewarding people for being on time. The on-time bonus is really just part of their pay rate. A bonus sounds better than an on-time malus. It puts accountability on the person. You don't get in trouble for being late (as long as you get all your work done and you're not holding anybody else up), but you don't get that "extra" pay.

Also, no one here has "free reign" to do whatever they like. Everyone here DOES self manage to an extent and some people do need micro-managing. I think your example of "Jimmie" is a little hyperbolic, because anybody who's dumb enough to do something like that isn't going to be allowed anywhere near a $300k+ printer.

People don't get rewarded for doing their jobs. They get rewarded for doing their jobs well. It's in the same vein as commissions, profit sharing, and bonuses for managers that exceed deadlines and keep costs exceptionally low.

It's not like people are running around willy-nilly doing whatever they want for an hourly rate. You get an hourly rate for showing up and doing what you're supposed to do. You get bonuses for exceeding goals.

It's just a different management style. I can't say for certain whether it works better than any other method, but it works better HERE for sure. It also helps that we have some really great employees who enjoy what they do. We have several people who could easily go on to other jobs and probably make more money, but this is honestly a really great place to work.

 

[CreatedDesigns]

You're serious ?? You actually reward people and give them bonuses for showing up on time ?? They are supposed to come to work and be ready to work at their starting time, not just show up. We do not and will not pay someone for setting up their station or changing clothes on our time. They need to be ready to go as in the job description of their wages are for work, not horsing around.

I understand, you can make exceptions, but to pay someone extra on a routine basis, for what they are already being paid for, is kinda odd.

Be very careful with this one because a lot of stuff changed in the last couple years and if any employee is changing clothes or setting up for work without pay is now against the law. Companies have had to go back years and pay what was owed to their employees. I believe it was 15min a day of back pay.

This ruling has scared a lot of companies

 

[Gino]

Be very careful with this one because a lot of stuff changed in the last couple years and if any employee is changing clothes or setting up for work without pay is now against the law. Companies have had to go back years and pay what was owed to their employees. I believe it was 15min a day of back pay.

This ruling has scared a lot of companies

Okay, I was thinking more about the guy/gal who come in and go directly to the bathroom and camp out for 10 minutes or hafta eat their fast food breakfast or coffee before they start..... on my time.

I thought about your claim there and googled it and found this instantly.

Employee’s Responsibility – It is the employee’s responsibility to participate in uniform consultations and to report to supervisor any problem or damages with received uniforms. An employee has to be appropriately attired for work at the beginning of his or her work shift, which could include wearing a uniform if in a uniform-designated job position; wearing safety shoes or slip-resistant shoes if required by the job; or dressed in personal attire appropriate to the position if the job does not require a uniform.

Compliance – If employees arrive to work not appropriately attired without a reasonable justification (i.e. not wearing the uniform while serving in a uniform-designated job; not wearing safety shoes or slip-resistant shoes if required by the job; or not dressed in a personal attire appropriate to the position while serving on a job that does not require a uniform), they will be instructed to leave the workplace on their own time (using vacation, compensatory time, overtime, floating holiday time or leave without pay) and return to work appropriately attired. Failure to adhere to the Dress Code and Uniform Policy described in this section may result in progressive disciplinary action.

 

[Andy D]

Is that law or someones policy?

 

[CreatedDesigns]

That looks like an old policy before the lawsuit

 

[Gino]

Like I said, I googled it and a few like this came up. I didn't see anything about lawsuits or even that the government can dictate how you run your business.

At the risk of possibly going political, this sue happy nation of ours is getting out of hand if what you guys are saying is true. I hafta pay someone to take a crap ?? There are many places that have shower rooms and whatnot on the premises. Unless you work in a facility that works around high contaminate chemicals, I hafta pay for someone to take a shower before and after work ?? It's always been on an full 8 hour day, that they be allowed a 1/2 hour or more for lunch..... paid or unpaid..... up to the owner and a 15 minute break mid morning and a 15 minute break mid afternoon. The breaks are not mandatory, but recommended.

So, if someone works at a hardware store, comes into work and has to change into their logo shirt, khaki pants, white socks and brown shoes.... I hafta pay them to come in, put the donut in their mouth and wash it down with coffee, put their lunch away in the break room, go to the bathroom and take a leak, wash their hands, go into the employee lounge and change around at their locker and come out ready to work 45 minutes later ?? An hour later, they go to their locker, get a pack of cigarettes and a soda, go outside, light up and proceed to take 15 minutes after they light up. Come back in, put everything away and get back to work and waste a total of 23 minutes. Work up until they need to go get ready to take lunch on your time. Now, come back on your time, get back into the groove and work until their mid-day break, take another 25 minutes and start getting ready to go home by changing clothes, taking a shower and ready to clock out at 5. You're lucky if you get 5 hours worth of work doing this, if the employee plays their cards right and has you running scared in YOUR OWN business. Since when did the government and employees start running the show ??

I may be old fashioned and you guys think ya got the world by the nuts, but at least I have work ethics. Someone hired me to work an 8 hour day, they get 8 hours. The rest of the stuff is on me and my time. Again, this is part of the whole problem in this country where the people taking all the risks, using their own money and having nothing to show for it, except a buncha greedy people holding their hands out expecting you to give them something for nothing. Have fun..... all of ya.

 

[Andy D]

Gino, I think you may be taking the law out context by ... umm, by a mile or two.

The law came about because companies like walmart were not paying their employees for things
that are legitimately part of the work day, like counting your till if you're a cashier or for cleaning up
their work area at the end of the day...

 

[CreatedDesigns]

• http://www.safetynewsalert.com/kraft-to-pay-4m-in-back-wages-for-ppe-donning-and-doffing/

This is the lawsuit I was referring to but I'm in Wisconsin. It affects us and usually when one lawsuit wins 1000's more are created to jump on the band wagon.

 

[Andy D]

Lol, I worked at a company that actually thought they could round down to the nearest 1/2 hour,
so if you worked till 5:25 they only wanted to pay you till 5:00

 

[TimToad]

Lol, I worked at a company that actually thought they could round down to the nearest 1/2 hour,
so if you worked till 5:25 they only wanted to pay you till 5:00

A Papa John's franchisee was just nailed to the tune of $273,000 in back wages for shorting people on their breaks, overtime, making them do prep or other work off the clock.

 

[Andy D]

1st isn't funny and interest to follow a thread that starts off as one subject and then morphs into another?

I'm a pretty conservative and pro-business guy, but I think 90% of the employee protection laws are legitimate and needed.
There is such a huge power differential between companies and a employee that the government needs to step in and moderate for the employee.
I believe employees are shorted and taken advantage of much more than the employers.

 

[TimToad]

1st isn't funny and interest to follow a thread that starts off as one subject and then morphs into another?

I'm a pretty conservative and pro-business guy, but I think 90% of the employee protection laws are legitimate and needed.
There is such a huge power differential between companies and a employee that the government needs to step in and moderate for the employee.
I believe employees are shorted and taken advantage of much more than the employers.

I am not in the thread "purity" camp that gets perturbed by anyone going off on a tangent as long as its related in any way to the topic. We're all just talkin' here ya know?

I definitely think our society couldn't have gotten to a 450 to 1 pay ratio difference between the average CEO and floor worker like we've done if we had vigorously enforced labor laws, worker friendly court decisions, overzealous NLRB enforcement, etc.

With credible reports of the top 1% receiving nearly 100% of the income and wealth growth since 2008, its high time we take a hard look at income inequality as a major destabilizing force in America.