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entire cartridges siphoned empty over night

Discussion in 'Mimaki' started by artbot, Sep 21, 2010.

  1. artbot

    artbot Very Active Member

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    Feb 18, 2010
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    this has happened twice. first time noticed that yellow and cyan were empty. figured it was some odd siphon issue that could never be recreated.

    just in case, i put tape at the current ink level to mark progress. nothing for several days. today i go back to see, and the yellow and cyan are once again completely empty.

    i did hear a constant drip the other day that i stopped. but i don't remember what stopped it, moving the carriage i think. i was suspicious that this "siphon" issue was happening but too busy to diagnose.

    WHAT IS HAPPENING??? I DON'T TRUST MY PRINTER TO NOT DISCARD ENTIRE CARTS OF INK NOW.

    (green and red marks are to show the levels from night to morning)
     

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  2. Todd M Castle

    Todd M Castle Member

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    I don't know if the set-up is the same, but on the Falcon Outdoors of old :)this would happen if the pads where the heads set would swell up and touch the bottom of the heads.

    I don't know if this is the issue you are having, but was a common problem with Mutoh FOD's back in the day.

    Good Luck,
     
  3. tanneji

    tanneji Member

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    That's a buncha ink! Where does it all go? I mean, is it in your drain reservoir? Floor?
     
  4. artbot

    artbot Very Active Member

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    the jv3 has a giant bottle. i'd figure it's about two quarts.

    the caps in the printer have the metal screens. the best i can figure is it could be recreated by a continuous section of ink between the cap and head. i did a five minuted head soak before shutting down. there are these ball valves that i installed on the back. perhaps, doing a head soak, then simply turning the valves is creating an automatic siphon?

    any ideas will be great. even bad ideas might get me to some conclusion.
     

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  5. ddarlak

    ddarlak Trump Hater

    i remember when you installed the valves, but can't remember why you installed them. what are they for again?
     
  6. artbot

    artbot Very Active Member

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    i rarely use my printer. so it has a little more quirks dealing with clogs and such.

    also i run my own white water based ink, mimaki ss2 white ink, uv clear, and solvent clear. all of which are a bit higher viscosity and clog factors. the valves allow me to keep up with the issues that would not normally happen with a stock setup.
     
  7. strypguy

    strypguy Active Member

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    I think I did something similar with my roland. I did a head soak and left the heads capped(maybe too tight) and next morning I lost all my ink.
    I believe you need to turn on the machine after a head soak and let the capping station reset itself to the heads.
    Hope this makes sense.

    John
     
  8. artbot

    artbot Very Active Member

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    thanks! that must be it, ruling out goblin as my other hypothesis.
     
  9. artbot

    artbot Very Active Member

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    impossible!!! help!

    i'm freaking out. one, i just spontaneously ran out of ink and i have to get a bunch of pieces on a truck thursday (last time i missed this truck i was forced to overnight a crate for $2000).

    just got back from errands.

    because of the sudden loss of yellow and cyan, i fill the caps turn off and unplug the printer, close my pump valves and assume my ink (magenta and black. the cyan and yellow emptied itself two hours ago) is protected from disappearing and heads protected from drying out.

    so...

    unplugged printer

    solution in caps

    valves to both km and cy drain line CLOSED. these valves seal completely.

    an hour later,

    black and magenta GONE!

    no sign of ink dripping fro within the printer. the best i can figure is the ink siphoned "passed" the valves (impossible) and was discarded.

    PLEASE HELP ME I AM COMPLETELY STUMPED.
     

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  10. artbot

    artbot Very Active Member

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    i've resorted to assuming that the ink was gone from the black and magenta before i turned the pump valves to "off". i still need to know better what i did to cause this. i'm now constantly checking to see if my remaining ink has disappeared.
     
  11. kffernandez

    kffernandez Member

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    one thing i've noticed about people having cartriges emptying out is that there had been a continious fluid contact between the heads and the solution/foam on the capping station-thus causing a continuous suction of the ink with each drip on the waste bottle.

    now, for your mind boggling draining-before-your-eyes scenario. i would bet that there is a very logical, if not simple explanation behind it. if i were you, i would physically clamp the drains with binder clips first. have a 2 hour rest/break, then come back to recheck the valves and make sure that there isn't anything that is coming into contact with your heads.

    stress and pressure does the funniest things to people.
     
  12. Fatboy

    Fatboy Very Active Member

    Some one working with you? Theft? Can not think what else! Seriously.What worries me is that you would be the first person I will contact when this happens to me.I know you are on top of your game as far as printers is concerned. Please let us know.Sorry about your bad luck.
     
  13. TheSnowman

    TheSnowman Major Contributor

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    Dude, if you are losing $2,000 on something CALL A TECHNICIAN! They wouldn't be that much to get out there, so worst case scenario is you don't lose as much as before!
     
  14. artbot

    artbot Very Active Member

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    @kraigsnowden ...the $2000 is what it cost me last time when i missed the "install truck" (a truck hired to carry all the various projects from one company to the site). i had to overnight a crate to washington from texas to catch up with the truck. grrr....

    i've been working 20 hard hard hard hours a day to get this order finished. shouldn't have taken this order but it was god send to pay for some personal matters.
     
  15. thewood

    thewood Very Active Member

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    Yes. I've seen this occur when the cap tops were not emptying properly after sleep cleanings due to a bad pump. I've also seen it happen when a nozzle wash is initiated and the printer is turned of prior to the end of the nozzle wash and the pumps don't get a chance to clean out the fluid from the cap tops.

    Either one of these can result in cap top(s) full of fluid that will eventually cause a siphon from the cartridges to the waste tank.

    Anytime I do an extended nozzle wash (longer than the 99 minutes the printer allows for) that requires me to power off the machine, I clamp off my bulk ink tanks to prevent this exact thing.
     
  16. artbot

    artbot Very Active Member

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    thanks for all the advice. i think that when i do the head soak, then go around back, turn the pump lines back open, and then walk away, it cause the ink in the line to just siphon away.

    maybe if when i open the pump line back up, i should pull the head carriage over to allow the caps to drain. that would break the fluid chain from the cart to the cap.

    ...you think you've seen it all until your printer tosses $300 worth of ink in an hour. those carts had just been refilled. grrr....
     
  17. ddarlak

    ddarlak Trump Hater

    after you do a head soak, you have to do a cleaning cycle and let the machine power down normally. the head soak is creating the unusual pressure situation.

    so you don't lose the entire cart of ink, pull them out 1 inch until you use the printer again. this way, if you do get a freak gremlin, he will one get what's in the lines.

    just make sure before you print that you remove the cover and check the lines for air bubbles. (i'm assuming yours is like mine, no screws in the cover, EVER!)
     
  18. artbot

    artbot Very Active Member

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    @ddarlak

    thanks, i like the idea of taking the carts out an inch. you don't think this will cause me to strangely lose the ink in the lines, or i also assumed that latent ink on the purging needle might dry up and cause an issue.

    for my printer, if it's a cover it's coming off. left, right, back panels, hood. this is a machine not a car.
     
  19. ddarlak

    ddarlak Trump Hater

    tough to say, i've pulled mine out from time to time when i know i'm not going to print for awhile, cuz you never know when that gremlin is waiting to eat your ink.

    lately i have been keeping only about 3/8" of ink in the carts and putting ink in as needed. i used to not care so much as i was directly importing ink from china and it was dirt cheap, but i got sick of the crap shoot and started buying it state side. more than double the $ so i have been trying to find the best way to ward off the gremlin.

    ever since the source dried up for the capping stations with the metal retainer in them i noticed more gremlin visits, but i've had good luck with the wire mesh from McMaster-Carr.

    one thing i did notice was that the ink drain was more likely to happen when i turned on the machine just to check the heads, ie test print, cleaning, test print, shut down. now i run a test pattern with a full blast of CMYK about 1.5" x 48", i haven't had a drain since i started this regiment.

    I never do head soaks anymore, the swelling of the outer cap is what leads to capping station failure, the cap looses it shape and the vaccuum is lost. instead, when the need arises, i.e. the heads are clogged a bit, i take off the dampers, slide the heads over, place paper towel under heads, hook tube and cleaning solution laden syringe to head and gently blow out the head, watching the pattern with a flashlight until you get the full desired blast pattern.
     
  20. JR Digital

    JR Digital Member

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    Why do you keep soaking the heads for ?? are they always getting clogged ?? only 2 things can make ink drain like that. An example is like if you had 2 glasses of water, one full, one empty and take one piece of string and put one end in the full and other in empty. In time all the water will flow into the empty glass.



    one was something in the order of what styrupguy said.. (something is in constant contact with the head and capping station) or theres a air leak somewhere in your system where it can pull the ink out. There shouldn't be a problem if you pull your carts out overnight. The printer is supposed to be able to keep the lines full with ink no matter what. If all else fails I suggest you replace your frankenhose with what your printer originally came with. If that doesn't correct the problem, just take a sledgehammer and smash it.. j/k

    Goodluck and let us know when you figure it out.
     
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