Epson SP 10000

[JModer]

Hi all, this is my first post here-- I have always been a printer/gadget freak, and finally came across an Epson SP 10000 on Craigslist really cheap. I bought it, and have been fiddling with trying to get it to print.

If/When I do get it operating, I am not sure what I am going to do with it at this point, but mostly just keep it for personal use, but ya never know it might grow into something more too...

First it was working, however the yellow head was mostly plugged with magenta ink. I managed to get that clear, and yesterday actually had a perfect nozzle pattern, until I started to get a 3001A error.

I have the service manual, and it is pretty useless, says that it is an overfill at the head error. On observation, I can see the printer it pushing ink through the head out the overflow/cleaning cap and continues to fill until it times out. I am considering pulling the head out to inspect it, however that looks like a pretty involved task.

Any advice on next steps? Other thoughts on this printer?

Any information is much appreciated!

Thanks!

John

 

[JModer]

Ugh--

Ok, So I decided to pull the head out and take a look. I'm getting frustrated now...

All came apart OK, and then I separated the "dampers", cleaned them out, and reinstalled everything.

The 3001A error is gone, but now the yellow is "Dripping". Could this be caused by a bad damper? Or is the head shot?

John

 

[artbot]

probably broke the head manifold nipple putting the damper back on. if so do not power up the machine until you get that thoroughly cleaned up. there maybe ink inside the heads, in the ribbon socket, etc. you could fry the printer.

 

[JModer]

No, manifold is fine, it is coming from the head surface. I can see it with a flashlight and mirror... Yes, it is messy, Yes I understand your points, no I am not an idiot, but thanks for being concerned.

John

 

[artbot]

just print files with lots of yellow in them!

 

[JModer]

Funny.

I do think all my tinkering with the damper messed up the valving or something, as it acts a little different than the others (I can inject pressure into the "good" ones and they won't "feed" the head, where the yellow one feeds the head under pressure). So I think the little valve seat might be crudded up or not sealing properly which is letting excess ink to the head. I don't know....

I ordered a damper set. If that doesn't work I think I'll just part it out and try to re-coop my cost. I am sure someone will want the two good heads... Stupid DX 4 head, what the hell are they made out of?

John

 

[ruckusman]

Artbot the 10000 damper and manifold system is different to the mimaki damper/manifold system, in fact it's more like the remote dmaper system you have setup.

I recently disassembled a 10000 head unit, and one thing I noticed is that the dampers actually have a tap on them, you may have to remove the head unit and dampes again, to check this.

There's a little silver plunger/actuator on the dampers, that goes into a black plastic lever on the head assembly.

I'm surmising that if it's installed wrong on the yellow damper you'll get the constant flow and dripping you're experiencing.

peace out

 

[JModer]

Ruckusman, that was my assessment as well. I think the little "Rubber" is worn out on the yellow one, I did install it the same as the others were... same problem.

We'll see if a new one fixes it. I thought of switching dampers around, but don't feel like the mess again today!

 

[artbot]

i'm aware. just busted up a head unit a month ago.

 

[JModer]

So is this forum about the only place to get info on this sort of stuff or is there a better place?

 

[artbot]

there's not a better place, but there are better ways to ask for help from these hundreds of experts.

 

[wedosigns]

JModer
You have came to the best place in the world to get your info, and mabey have brushed Artbot the wrong way with your sarcasm.
Not a good thing to do, since he has probably the most knowledge on how these printers work, and helps many, many people here.

 

[artbot]

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xhsagj_beastie-boys-intergalactic_music#

 

[ruckusman]

JModer
You have came to the best place in the world to get your info, and mabey have brushed Artbot the wrong way with your sarcasm.
Not a good thing to do, since he has probably the most knowledge on how these printers work, and helps many, many people here.

That was precisely what I was thinking...

 

[JModer]

I certainly meant no offense to artbot, nor anyone else here-- Mr. Alldredge, please accept my apologies if you were, as again that was not my mission, I was simply seeking help, and am appreciative for that help.


If I haven't worn out my welcome in 3 posts, I do have a few questions again after more tinkering--

How do you know if/when a damper is bad?
Besides not "printing" will a "bad head" do other things (like leak from the surface)?
After leaving it sit overnight, and tinkering this AM, I ran 3 perfect nozzle checks, and then ran a purge page (solid yellow page) and a couple C Y M K LTM LTC test patterns, which printed reasonably well, until the last, where the yellow head is dripping again.

John

 

[ruckusman]

I've never owned and printed with a 10000, I found the damper setup interesting when I disassembled the entire head assembly recently, as much because when I depressed the black lever that operated the plungers on the dampers ink dripped out...I had already removed the heads when this happened

I haven't dissected a damper, but given the plunger mechanism I'd say they operate as much as taps as dampers.

One quick option would be to cross connect the lines from the two adjacent dampers on the same head, that way if the dripping switched channels you know it's the damper or that ink supply line.

Sure beats having to flush the whole damper as I suspect there's foam inside.

BTW are you using aftermarket inks? Reason I ask is if the viscocity is incorrect it cold cause dripping...just a thought

BTW BTW, good form to apologise to artbot, he's incredibly knowledgeable and helpful, but he didn't slap you down because he understands all too well the exasperation that comes when these "confounded contraptions" stop working

peace out

 

[JModer]

ruckusman,

No they are Epson carts. I got the printer from an office environment and they had about 2 dozen excess carts that came with it. When I first started having problems I put in a "new" sealed cart to rule that out, so it is OEM ink.

Like I said earlier, I did fully disassemble the dampers yesterday and flushed them out. Not knowing what I am looking for left me to compare the yellow's behavior to the other colors. The Yellow damper does allow pressure to flow through in it's "natural" state, which the other ones I checked did not, so I am fairly convinced that is the problem right now. My only other though is the supply solenoid is leaking past in the "closed" position, but I do not think that is the case, as I disconnected the ink line, and outside what would be "normal line loss" it doesn't seem to be "pushing" additional ink out unless the machine is calling for it.

If I didn't have the new part on order already I would pull it apart again and cross lines as you suggested, but I'd rather wait and only deal with that mess once.

Again, I apologize to artbot and all, I certainly meant no harm...

Thanks again for all the help.

 

[artbot]

no problem, i'm not the most knowledgeable by far. but i'm at my computer and i can't stand to watch someone suffer. broken printer = losing money. actually losing money is something i'm an expert at.

you are up against a bit of a diagnostic challenge with the 10000. they weren't really designed to be "repaired" just part switched. epson based their business on photographers, warranties, and somewhat disposable large format printers. the possession of that serial number to the printer is probably worth more than the printer because it allows you to buy one head unit a year netting you three new dx4's for $300ea.

as for why the yellow is dripping? i've tossed my dampers to the head unit i had. it was a maze to say the least. other than something not closing properly a highly over filled cart' or an unlevel printer can do the same. but i'm assuming it's something more complex.

 

[JModer]

Well, join the crowd there-- Lately I seem to be the leader of finding lost causes to throw money after!

Yes, Epson certainly does like the idea of planned obsolescence! It is simply amazing to me how unserviceable they tried to make a machine that should be very easily serviced, especially something that is geared toward a professional environment. I understand it somewhat in consumer grade stuff (even though I find it completely annoying), but on commercial grade gear, how would they expect anyone to profit from this thing? Crazy.

I guess I will see with the new damper if that is the true cause. The damper shares a lot of design features of my 835 carts, which is one of the reasons I suspect that is the problem. While the 835 carts don't have a valve on them per-say, I did learn the hard way when refilling them that getting ink inside the damper section causes weird things to happen, and at one point that printer was leaking as well, and a new cart solved that problem... The whole design seems so overly complicated for what it is supposed to do...

Can you clarify what you mean by a serial number means a new head unit a year? What I am interpreting is that if I have a serial number I can buy a new head unit from Epson for $900.00 once a year, which is about 1/3 of the going rate for 3 DX 4 heads?

John

 

[artbot]

the only difference in an epson water based head, mutoh water based head, etc. is a sticker and the manifold. put a solvent resistant manifold on it and you've got a solvent head. the head units at this point can only be bought with a serial number from a service tech. strangely, my head unit had an epson head rank sticker on top, directly under that a roland head rank sticker, then a mimaki head rank sticker. i hate epson's ethic. they deserve to go belly up. a dx4 has about $60 manufacturing costs in it. they will sell it for $150 wholesale to some, and $400 wholesale to others. dx5 is even worse. they have been chipping the latest ones to only work in certain after market printers. so if you are lucky enough to come across a $200 dx5, you will still be forced to pay $1500 for no other reason then the firmware of the printer will refuse certain heads. mechanically the same head. just protected by a chip from being transplanted.