Estimating Software

[mopar691]

I'm tired of hearing this hooplah on the $129 price tag on signVOX per month. I am as small as sign shops come and i can afford it and i LOVE IT.

I had about a half dozen quotes come in today and i quoted each one within 10 minutes each AND i knew what margin % i was making, my costs on the job and my profit on the job in dollars. Hell, when a customer gives you a deposit, it tells you the % of the job that's paid for on the job board and the remaining balance when you look at the open invoice. No guess work, no bullcrap.

Done a few jobs? Awesome, simply export to quickbooks and BAM it's all put in, no invoicing a second time or nothing. Have to send the customer a email with a proof, quote or invoice? No problem, simply email them from the software.

If a shop like mine can afford this with no problem, The rest must be doing some completely wrong because it makes perfect sense to have this in your shop.

I can't tell you how many times i have heard from a business friend of mine how unorganized he is because his current software only does estimates and doesn't invoice things or keep track of jobs. I sit and chuckle because i am using signVOX and it WORKS.

Really its not the price tag. Its I just do not get it. Nothing said about this is any different than I am currently able to do. Maybe I had my setup done well for me but all this you mentioned is available in QB also and is all right there. I can do all this in the same time and not have to export it.

Only thing I cannot do is track jobs on my pc and really I don't want to. That is all done via packet. Im still stuck using these from my old JobBoss days and liked it so I implemented it into my workflow. I could not imaging walking thru the shop and not having job packets. Much less having to update software manually with job status and progression. I see no logical reason to have that information within my database during production other than the ability to sit on a beach and get a progress report. (Sorry had to bring in the beach somewhere)

As I stated previously I need to see it first hand.

 

[rjssigns]

EstiMate. Does everything we need it to do. Just a two person shop.

If I were going to pay for a service every month I would use a a place in the valley. My friend Nick uses them. He generates the bid, if it converts to a sale he adds the deposit then clicks sale. They take it from there, with invoicing, tracking, taxes etc... They have remote access after 5p.m. on his system. Kinda creepy to see the computer fire up and the cursor moving while you are standing there watching. Never an issue, and they call him when he has to sign tax papers at the end of the year. Very slick.

 

[David Wright]

What works for you is just that, you. We all have the most insight into what will work for us.
This argument "for the price of a banner you can afford it" is the same one we get for "the price of one cup of coffee a day" you can buy. You know, at some point after buying everything on that line of thinking, I won't have enough for a cup of coffee.

 

[john1]

Honestly, then i am sorry to hear that.

In all honesty, $129 isn't a lot and if a super small shop like mine can afford it with no problems i have no idea what the rest of you are doing to not be able to justify $129.

I know business people who bulk at the price per month of the software i (and a ton of others on this forum) use but yet they are spending hundreds a month on dumb throw away services like social networking updates, random magazines and other things that aren't helping their business at all.

We spend all this money on these fancy smart phones every month for the service we will never own but $129 for something that will manage a business all around is uncalled for? Yeah that makes sense.

I am not the only guy ranting about this software, obviously it works and like i said, If you can't justify $129 a month then you must be doing something wrong.

I am done raving and all, I have quotes to quote out and orders to produce

 

[David Wright]

You keep saying your sorry John, why. You bought what you wanted, no need to justify it by convincing everyone else to do the same.
It looks like it is useful, just not for everyone. Why so hard to understand?

 

[john1]

I keep saying i am sorry because i am sorry for people who bulk at the price when it's so minimal. I truly am not sorry because i know it works great, More of a pitty for those bulking.

This thread started out with suggestions about estimating software, I said my suggestion as did a hand full of others on the same software. Now it's a flame war against me because i said there must be something wrong with people not getting it.

 

[tsgstl]

I keep saying i am sorry because i am sorry for people who bulk at the price when it's so minimal. I truly am not sorry because i know it works great, More of a pitty for those bulking.

This thread started out with suggestions about estimating software, I said my suggestion as did a hand full of others on the same software. Now it's a flame war against me because i said there must be something wrong with people not getting it.

I think you answered why people keep saying stuff to you. Feeling sorry for others or that there is "something wrong" for not having a extra $1548 to spend every year on something is offensive. Thankfully Kevin doesn't share your same marketing tactics.
Even your cellphone and coffee excuse is not a correct approach IMO. Telling people what they can do without is kind of used car salesmanish. Explaining how your business can benefit or profit from this software is all that is needed (which you did do)
An extra $1500 a year could go a long ways with online marketing with a bunch of us. I am sure being more organized and streamlined is extremely handy. But for some of us (at least to me) it falls in to a "luxury item" at this time.

I am very interested in SignVox and I doubt I will look elsewhere when the time is right for me. But I don't want to be told something is wrong with my business for not doing it sooner.

EDIT: seeing how passionate you and others are about this software is very appealing. I mean no offense by my comments, just trying to explain how I and maybe others feel.

 

[john1]

I am not marketing this software in any way, I am giving a honest opinion on what my views are on it.

I was happy enough with it to share onto others but of course it comes out wrong.

I don't care if you like what i am saying, I will say it because it's MY OPINION

Telling people what they can do without isn't bad at all, People make mistakes and there are tons of improvements you can make to help your business. Eliminating unnecessary things each month can add up to help you grow your business elsewhere. Great estimating software in my OPINION (people are allowed those) is essential to any business, Not just something that works because it's a one time charge of $300 for example.

I am in no way a business coach, lord knows i am the furthest from that but common sense is just common but it seems like that's not even common anymore.

Yes a extra $1500 can go a long way but wouldn't a extra $3000 or more go even further thanks to good business management?

 

[Deaton Design]

well, I am a very small shop in an area where the economy is worse than most places. I couldnt possibly pay 129.00 a month for estimating software. Over 1500 bucks a year just for the use of their software, which no doubt by the compliments is very good, is something I just cant afford. Just like alot of things, its not for everyone. One of our merchants that used to be here had some good software available for a one time price. I dont think they are merchants anymore, so I wont mention the name, but from what I saw, and for the price, it looked really good. Again, Im not knocking Signvox in any way, its just not affordable for everyone.

 

[wildside]

IT DOES HAVE IT'S QUIRKS THOUGH!
........... It just seems to me like the software is in it's ultra-infancy. Currently an excellent Beta build, but far from version 1 in my opinion. And right now...I'll just come out and say it....It's too expensive for all of the things that still need to get worked out.

Now I know that many will more than likely slice me open on this one - and so be it...But I have a difficult time paying 100% prices for 75% of a software package. I felt like I was paying to be a beta tester and note taker. (Sorry, Kevin - nothing personal here....)

i couldn't agree more with your statement, we tried it as well, we currently use cyrious and felt like we were stepping backward to use it. i can totally see its benefits and know it probably works fantastic for some, but not for this shop.- the "cloud" is not all that to me

in reference to that "cloud" setup, we lost internet here for an entire afternoon a few weeks ago, the whole town went out, what happened, i don't know, but anyway, with the software here and accessible without the internet we were fine, with the cloud setup we would have been screwed, but no worries with our setup

the money is a mute point for the total a year, its a business expense, if it saves you money, then even better

But, by comparison, it would be about 3 times more cost than cyrious, we paid $2400 5 years ago, broken down over the years we have paid $40 a month and going down with every passing month, the other route over 5 years is almost 8 grand, and that's provided the costs don't go up or down, again just a business expense though

 

[Kevin-shopVOX]

Wow!

First thanks for the kudos all that mentioned. Insignia, PS Xpress Graphics, John, LarryB, Colorado. I appreciate all you do for us and how you value (here is the key word..VALUE) a product and how it relates to your business. We are very proud of what we have developed and look forward to making it better by listening to what you, the user base, want. (Don't worry Mike I promise you will see the drag and drop board like the install board for production/design)

You'd be surprised. $129 is a very very very small price to pay for what this program does. $1500 per year is not that much. It eliminated a $25k/yr. AR/bookkeeping person for us, and I'd estimate it saves just me alone 15-20 hours a month not having to babysit the shop or chase down orders like we used to, not to mention everyone else here. And believe me, our previous system was dialed in and ran like a well oiled machine (we used an estimating program, job board, detailed work orders/job packets, and Quickbooks).

Just saying, people really need to look past the cash outlay every month (Colorado is right, it's 1 banner a month anyway) and consider what that $129 buys you. I guarantee you can't run your shop like a well oiled machine from an iPad while you're sitting on the beach in the Bahamas drinking a margarita with your current system... To me that alone is worth $1500/yr.

Do one of Signvox's free webinars to see what it's all about. It's worth it!!

Wow in this scenario $129/mo sounds like a steal.

Look at it his way. You can only cut cost's so much. Can you cut enough to an extra $129/mo or sell one more small banner to pay for it? I'm sure you could but in all reality with everything thing you add/do to your business what is the upside. With signVOX the upside over spending $129/mo is great as stated by Insignia. Return on investment. That is what it is all about.

Okay - First off. I know SignVOX is a merchant member here. I know a lot of you use this system. But, John, I'd have to disagree with you in saying that there must be something wrong with you to not like this system. (Maybe cause I'd like to think there is nothing wrong with me??? Maybe.) I haven't said anything previous, but we tried SignVOX here - and the basis for the software is great. IT DOES HAVE IT'S QUIRKS THOUGH!

That being said - I didn't dislike it so much that I will never look to it again in the future for a possible solution. It just seems to me like the software is in it's ultra-infancy. Currently an excellent Beta build, but far from version 1 in my opinion. And right now...I'll just come out and say it....It's too expensive for all of the things that still need to get worked out.

Now I know that many will more than likely slice me open on this one - and so be it...But I have a difficult time paying 100% prices for 75% of a software package. I felt like I was paying to be a beta tester and note taker. (Sorry, Kevin - nothing personal here....)

This is a creative industry - and I feel that there are things in there that should be much, much more customization in certain areas. I have talked with Kevin about it - and he said they are working on it...Which I totally believe...But for reasons like this, I say, it is only partially complete.

So. If you're in the market - check it out - It does do what it says. It manages customers, gives quotes, sets reminders, etc, etc, etc, etc.

But, IMO, I think there is a lot of room for improvement (AS WITH ANY SOFTWARE) - but there are some things that were very frustrating for us.

-Chad

Chad - speak your mind. It is a free world. Just because we are a merchant member here doesn't exclude us from being criticized. (unless it is in the rule book some where and we pay for that right...in that case bite your tongue..jkidding)

In regards to your comments...fair enough. You are entitled to your opinion and I don't take it personally.

However, I disagree that it's a beta version or even remotely close to one. Here are a few stats to say otherwise.
230 Users.
Invoices 96457 Invoiced Dollars $50,683,374.78
Quotes 60392 Quoted Dollars $212,436,083.07
WIP 10151 WIP Dollars $15,601,260.48
Purchase Orders 6206 PO Dollars $2,340,280.13
Proofs Sent 83685 Documents Sent 140217
Customers 694302 Vendors 12066
Customer Logins 25741 (who logged in to see the proofs)

It is far from a beta

Yes there are a few quirks, but is it a quirk or is it just a method to our madness. Remember we are not building custom software, we are offering a software package that performs a certain way. Here are a few of the quirks you might be referring to. If I miss any please let me know as I'd like to give you feedback as well as enlighten everyone else that may be interested in signVOX. As far as I know here were your sticking points.

1. Custom invoices, work orders, quotes etc.
There is only one template at the moment. It is not a customized feature. Will we one day provide that as a feature or offer more options? The answer is sure..one day. Not really a quirk...just not an option.

Yes we are in a creative industry and I am a huge proponent of branding. However I am a bigger proponent of a quality product, customer service and efficient business processes. I've seen your work, it is awesome and I'm pretty sure you provide excellent customer service. Your invoice in our template with your logo will never hinder that.

However, your opinion is important to you and I respect that.

2. Email sent to review proof
You did not like the email that simply contains a link to view their proof online looked. Okay. However, No one is complaining on how it works. We are actually getting feedback from your customers (via our users not directly) saying how cool it is. Remember they are just getting a link, it still has your signature built in for your brand and they click to view their proof online which is a file you create. Make it as brand oriented as you want.

Again you are entitled to our opinions.


3. Jobs in the personal dashboard
This was a bug. It was fixed 3 days after you left. Your dashboard now shows your job responsibilities in terms of the jobs due not just jobs you created.

4. Notes written on proof review page
This again was a bug. It now shows whatever you type in regards to the proof you are sending on the proof review page. Again fixed 3 days after you left.

5. Typos.
Personally..I think this is the one that sealed the deal. What can I say other than you are right. There were some. Yes they are unprofessional and when we see them or they are pointed out we change them. I wan't to say they are all taken care of. And if we missed them (there is no spell checker for this by the way) all you have to do is point it out to us so we can fix it. We are human after all.

They reason I said keep notes on features you'd like to add or notice is because unless someone points it out, it takes longer to make the changes or we just don't know; regardless of testing. This includes what makes sense to you as a user. We want the experience to be great and if you don't tell us why would we change it? Personally I thought I was giving direct access to help mold a tool that you used for your business not a chore.

Since you've left here is what we've added.
1. Install board
2. Material Requisition
3. Attachments to any email
4. Payments applied to any open invoice (instead of payments one at a time on the specific invoice.
5. Static IP access
6. Shopping cart integration
And here are the things that are right around the corner:
1. wrapVOX (so freakin awesome)
2. Alerts (30+ on screen notifications that keep you in the know..quote expiring, task created..etc etc)
3. RFQ/Vendor network (making it easier for both parties in the outsource realm)

However, all of this goes back to value. In the week you used it you did not see it. You focused on what it can't do rather than what it can do. No problem. We are under no assumptions that this will be for everyone.

However I love seeing the feedback. Either in a passionate way like John (yes he could have phrased it better...but understand our system is changing his business for the better..so who can blame him or in regards to your review. We don't know what we don't know and respect feedback in any light. However you have to be open as well to our point of view and processes.

I don't think anyone is going to flame you for posting your honest review.

Can you elaborate a bit on what was frustrating for you or what made you think that the program still needs a lot of work? I've been wanting to implement SignVox for a couple of months now and I've yet to hear a single complaint (of course besides the price tag - which is a non-issue in my opinion).

If you prefer to send me a PM that's fine.

Thanks!

Please see above.

I dont understand why estimating software companies are charging monthly fees. In reality you technically never own the software but are paying a usage fee. Also, I dont want my POS system online, its more accessible to viruses, hackers, and any malicious attacks.

EDIT:
By the way Kevin nice upgrade to the site

Actually you are more prone to attacks on a desktop than a cloud based application.

As far as the website.. Enlighten me. Am I missing something?

Really its not the price tag. Its I just do not get it. Nothing said about this is any different than I am currently able to do. Maybe I had my setup done well for me but all this you mentioned is available in QB also and is all right there. I can do all this in the same time and not have to export it.

Only thing I cannot do is track jobs on my pc and really I don't want to. That is all done via packet. Im still stuck using these from my old JobBoss days and liked it so I implemented it into my workflow. I could not imaging walking thru the shop and not having job packets. Much less having to update software manually with job status and progression. I see no logical reason to have that information within my database during production other than the ability to sit on a beach and get a progress report. (Sorry had to bring in the beach somewhere)

As I stated previously I need to see it first hand.

The beach is a metaphor for anywhere. If it is at the beach more power to you.

In all honestly you can not see the value in anything unless you take the time to render the possibilities. You have no idea if it will improve anything or add value. You are assuming it can't. Not a fair assessment.

You keep saying your sorry John, why. You bought what you wanted, no need to justify it by convincing everyone else to do the same.
It looks like it is useful, just not for everyone. Why so hard to understand?

Yes everyone's value and sticking points are different. It is what makes the world go round.

 

[Kevin-shopVOX]

i couldn't agree more with your statement, we tried it as well, we currently use cyrious and felt like we were stepping backward to use it. i can totally see its benefits and know it probably works fantastic for some, but not for this shop.- the "cloud" is not all that to me

in reference to that "cloud" setup, we lost internet here for an entire afternoon a few weeks ago, the whole town went out, what happened, i don't know, but anyway, with the software here and accessible without the internet we were fine, with the cloud setup we would have been screwed, but no worries with our setup

the money is a mute point for the total a year, its a business expense, if it saves you money, then even better

But, by comparison, it would be about 3 times more cost than cyrious, we paid $2400 5 years ago, broken down over the years we have paid $40 a month and going down with every passing month, the other route over 5 years is almost 8 grand, and that's provided the costs don't go up or down, again just a business expense though

Again thanks for giving us a fair shake. Like what has been mentioned it isn't for everyone and we never assume it is.

But when these circumstances happen this can still be accessed from a mobile phone/tablet etc. It is inconvenient for sure but does not stop business from moving forward with a cloud based application

 

[StarSign]

We run Cyrious however more then not it won't do what we want it to do anymore. We are looking for more detail and it isn't there. As far as the cost I think it's a wash (to get support from Cyrious you have to pay). I would be interested in trying signvox to see what it could do.

 

[john1]

Just got back from a meeting and i closed the deal within 20 minutes of meeting a customer for the first time. I showed up with my iPad, produced a quote off the measurements, showed the customer the invoice, he gave me 50% deposit and i sent him a email right then and there with the invoice and remaining balance.

It feels great to present yourself professional and to get things done in a snap.

 

[J Hill Designs]

230 Users.
Invoices 96457 Invoiced Dollars $50,683,374.78
Quotes 60392 Quoted Dollars $212,436,083.07
WIP 10151 WIP Dollars $15,601,260.48
Purchase Orders 6206 PO Dollars $2,340,280.13
Proofs Sent 83685 Documents Sent 140217
Customers 694302 Vendors 12066
Customer Logins 25741 (who logged in to see the proofs)

Wow how much other info is being tracked in the cloud?

 

[Mark Smith]

Great to see this thread. I appreciate the votes for EstiMate!

I re-installed a program called Estimate 4 years ago on a XP machine and use it everyday. I bought it for $350 well over 8 years ago, I can't see paying $129 a month for something you will never own. I have heard good things about signvox but the prices has me running far, far away.

The downfall to the Estimate software is it used a license to "unlock" the features you want to use. When I re-installed the software 4 years ago I was told that they are not supporting that software anymore.

We are not supporting EstiMate 1 anymore, but we are still supporting EstiMate 2. By that, I mean technical support - not license keys. EstiMate users will always be able to unlock their software regardless of what version you are using.

Estimate is alive and well- they switched to a per month program a couple
years back but they still support the earlier purchased versions- they even
have free upgrades occasionally. I like it- it works for me. Gene

Yes, as Gene says we are definitely alive and well! If you have any questions for us just email customerservice@estimatesoftware.com.

Whatever software you use I would say to make sure that the pricing methodology is sound and that labor is taken deeply into consideration in the pricing model so you don't ever shoot yourself in the foot quoting a job.

Have an awesome week!

 

[MatthewTimothy]

Wow how much other info is being tracked in the cloud?

thats one reason why I do NOT like it. Why would you want someone to know or be able to access your personal and business information??

 

[john1]

Then you better throw away your computer and cell phone because it's not as secure as you may think. Heck, even most newer model cars are tracking you via GPS, Did you know that?

 

[J Hill Designs]

of course we knew that.

but tracking invoices etc...<shrug>

is there a disclaimer in the EULA about it?

 

[MatthewTimothy]

Then you better throw away your computer and cell phone because it's not as secure as you may think. Heck, even most newer model cars are tracking you via GPS, Did you know that?

thats ridiculous if you are comparing that to what you have on your cloud. Two totally different things my friend and there are steps to secure your information on your computer compared to on a cloud. Plus you are relying on their network and what are the guarantee's on uptime because I did not see anything. Also, where is the cloud being hosted??