Well. I'm not exactly sure how to respond to most of this. But here's a try anyway?
I guess first and foremost we are just going to agree to disagree about what Beta is. I didn't call it pre-alpha, or alpha - I called it Beta. There are two types: Open (Everyone can use it / Photoshop 6) and Closed (Selected users / Corel x7). And then furthermore, there is RC (Release Candidate) - which is probably what I should have said. So, my apologies - but for the everyday user isn't aware of most of these types - and thus, I said Beta.
But what this is, to me, is a Release Candidate. And while these terms are meant more for a 'real' program (in the sense of an actual .EXE file - like Corel or Illy / Not a cloud based solution), I think for the sake of conversation - I'm going to use this example. By the very nature of what you are selling, with constant improvements, additional features, extra options and the like it would be hard to EVER come up with a 'Version 1' or whatever....So I get that part of it.
Now to the details I guess...
Kevin: However, I disagree that it's a beta version or even remotely close to one. Here are a few stats to say otherwise.
230 Users.
Invoices 96457 Invoiced Dollars $50,683,374.78
Quotes 60392 Quoted Dollars $212,436,083.07
WIP 10151 WIP Dollars $15,601,260.48
Purchase Orders 6206 PO Dollars $2,340,280.13
Proofs Sent 83685 Documents Sent 140217
Customers 694302 Vendors 12066
Customer Logins 25741 (who logged in to see the proofs)
You state that you have over 230 users, with 50,000,000 invoiced dollars. I ask then, how many of those users are Sign-A-Rama's? Their website claims (from 7/11) that they plan on featuring SignVox in over 800 of their locations. So about 8 months after this press release there is still only 230 total users worldwide. But I don't know if you're just counting Sign-A-Rama as a whole - as 1 customer or not? Not even sure it matters that much....Just saying. And while the number: 50,000,000 sounds impressive - it is only .5% of the total sales from sign manufacturing
nationwide ($11,000,000,000) according to the
2007 census.
So based on 6,406 total companies claiming 339950 as thier NAICS code - you have 3% of ALL sign shops. (IMPRESSIVE! Not being sarcastic. That really is a lot) - But they are only responsible for .5% of the sales. So this, to me, says that they are likely low production shops. (Franchise shops more than likely.) - I wonder then, what the shops responsible for the other $10,950,000,000 dollars are running?
Now, in response to the five points that you thought may be my sticking points.
1) Custom Invoices, Work Orders, Quotes, Etc. -
One template for anything - isn't a template at all. It's a form. Just like a 'form letter' is called that - cause it's the same for everyone. A template would at least allow me to change/modify things while keeping an overall consistent 'look' - and from a programming stand point - a place so that values entered into a database would have a 'home' or a place to appear.
You mention that you're a bigger fan of making a quality product, customer service, and efficient business processes over branding. And to that I have no argument, except to say that those out there who are ALREADY giving their customers great service and quality products using their current 'business processes' - would like to incorporate the time and energy that they have already spent branding their company - and continue it onto ALL their business documents. - But as you mention, you are developing that and it will be released later. (
beta?)
2.) E-Mail sent to review proof
This was one of the features I was most excited about. But you say in your post that I didn't care for the email simply because it had a link to view the proof is inaccurate. I didn't like the email because it looked like crap. There was like 4-5 places on an email that said 'Click Here' (Sometimes in buttons, sometimes in raw links (text)). The email - if printed, would have taken up, what...Half a page? And it comes from Signvox.....It even instructs customers to allow
mailman@signvox.com to send them mail so it doesn't go to the junk folder (I can't remember the exact address - so my apologies.) But it was something like that...
If a customer gets ANYTHING from me - it will be on my 'letterhead' (albeit Signature on an email or a real letterhead with printed envelopes). That's it.
You say how no body is complaining how it works - which I didn't either. The way it WORKS is not the issue. In just the same sense that how I make a sign is unimportant and unnecessary knowledge to a customer - so long as it is 'customized' to what they want. When I asked you specifically how to change to look of the email - you told me it cannot be done yet.....(Beta?)
So when you write to me that I can "Make it as brand oriented as you want." - I have to shrug my shoulders and just again, agree to disagree. My version of branding something doesn't mean stick a logo on it. I'd like to control color, content, formatting, fonts, etc....
And in response to what you said before you edited this post - about me designing the form for you. No thanks - I have a job....But if you're looking for ideas maybe look into allowing customers to make a 'theme' using CSS, store the file remotely in the database and write the emails in HTML (as you already do) with an include statement in the code? But..... again...Coming soon?
3.) Jobs in the Personal Dashboard
Fixed! Awesome. - But at least give me the the fact that this was one of those things we were told to write down and email it in....Which - it the 'whole' of things is fine. But when you're taking notes about software that you are JUST getting - and trying to recommend fixes and whatnot (not knowing even what I'm supposed to be expecting) - to me is kinda nutty. Especially when I am paying 100% of the total cost of the software. Right? Or ARE these prices the 'discounted' ones? More than likely not. But again - if the 129 IS the final price, we've already came across 3 major hiccups. (Starting to sound like beta.....)
4.) Notes written on proof preview page.
Another one of the major selling points for me was this feature. As we began using it we discovered and reported that notes I was doing on designs was not being correctly propagated through the system. So when 'customers' (I put that in quotes because as you know, but no one else does - we never let this thing run live because of these issues we were having and wanted to see it working before we blindly went sending proofs and emails. And I'm glad, in retrospect, that we did) would write notes to us they wouldn't appear - and nor would comments I was writing to them. Even as something as simple a fax machine allows for this type of communication. But it was busted AT THE TIME - and has, apparently, since been fixed. (Sounds like something you would find out in a beta)
5.) Tpyos. - Unprerfesionel. We all make them, I know. So I'm not saying you should hire perfect people to program your product. I'm simply saying that this is the kind of thing often found in BETAS. When is the last time you used Corel, Adobe, etc, etc, etc, etc - and found even ONE typo? Let alone one here, one there, another here.....Oh! Not to mention....Make sure to write that down so we can fix it. Then email that to us.
You told me to make sure that I wrote down and sent in everything I wanted to be corrected because with, and you even said it yourself, with thousands of things to do - the ones that get the most complaints are the ones that get fixed first. So if it's such a complete build - and one that, because it's cloud based and database oriented - you would even have to do anything like a recompiling of an executable script of anything. Just fix the typo in Ruby (or whatever) and go on. I do agree with you that there is no spell check when writing code...I get it. But I also get how to fix that stuff.....These types of mistakes are caught in Beta builds....
Using my same analogy as before about Corel, Adobe, Scanvec - any of them - Do you think when they release alphas and betas that there are no spelling errors? I highly doubt it. After all - as you point out - "We are human after all" - as are they. The difference is they fix theirs..........in BETAS.
It's not like it's written in C, or C++, or Basic, Assembly - or ANYTHING that need compiling. No re-releases of builds, no updates, or anything....
In fact - a lot of these same things are selling points, right? How, as a customer, you always have the most up to date version....No installing....No service packs no this, no that....
And lastly - please don't pretend to assume that you know what I focused on in regards to my evaluation of your product. Because, as is often the case in assumptions, you are wrong. You write:
"You focused on what it can't do rather than what it can do."
I'll tell you what I focused on - and after your ORIGINAL post (not the one above that has been cleaned up) - I really have no problem doing it.
I focused on these things: If I am going to invest between, realistically, between one and three weeks of setup time to get a product that is supposed to be a solution, up and running - it better be a "solution" that I feel will do me and my company good.
Basically - Is this product going to lose or make me money? Well, that's debatable - even in it's old (unfixed...Incorrect version) it was going to save me time and it was going to organize our customer relations better. (Over what we were using at that time) Streamline the estimate/invoicing part of the job AND set reminders to follow up, check in and the like. So THAT part of it makes me money. I like money...Seems like a good solution.
But then you take in the cost of the time we were being asked of us to write down every error, typo, desired feature, bugs, etc - and add to that the 129 per month and the fact of restructuring any existing infrastructure that we already had in place. Which - speaking only for myself here - is our QuickBooks setup. All of the tax codes and products in there needed to be changed to facilitate the 'meshing' of these two products. Also importing all of our contacts from programs like QuickBooks or Outlook into SignVox is time consuming as well. (More money)
So, with all that in mind,
HERE is what I focus on.
Is there a solution that is similar or better that costs me less to purchase, implement and maintain?
And we found that the answer to that question FOR US was Yes. For 1/6th the cost. (Granted - it's not an apples to apples comparison - meaning that the solution we have now isn't "sign" software) - But it is a TOTAL CRM solution for us, and I mean, 100% non-beta, totally complete, kind of total. It includes the basic reminders, quoting, project management, and all that PLUS mass marketing emails, drip campaigns, blast campaigns, leads management, totally editable custom templates, weekly and daily planning, goal setting, custom reports, plus migration with QuickBooks is included and is handled within 24 hours (of signing up...Not even paying them yet) and more...
And I really am torn right now as to go further and tell everyone what it is...Here's why I'm torn. When we were talking with you on the phone to get things taken care of - you were ALWAYS a gentleman, and so is EVERYONE at SignVOX that we spoke with. There was NEVER as issue of customer service on your side of it. You guys are...what...like 3 or 4 hours ahead of me and I can remember talking with you techs at as late as 11 pm (your time.) - So that was really great and much appreciated.
But our new solution has 24/7/365 support. And yeah - I know...."What? So I can talk to some foreigner in who know what country about....." No. - Everyone we've talked to has been perfectly capable of understanding us, and us them - and gets our problems handled while we are on the phone with them. We've never been asked to write anything and send it in so it can get in the queue to get processed.
So here's the catch - It doesn't do quoting. But that, too, has been easily overcome. The process we use now is similar - because let's not beat around the bush here...That's what takes all the time to set up. Entering all the prices from your suppliers, applying the markups, setting costs for product a, b, c, d, e..............
You have a very nice UI for hardcore, very sensitive and linked databases. So does Access, so does FileMakerPro, so do 1000's (literally - I checked) of other software packages out there.
So I guess what I'm saying here is this. (And I speak only for myself, and don't even pretend to speak for ANY ONE else)
When you're ready to upgrade your 'system' - whatever that may be - SignVox or otherwise. You are FORCED to start looking at numbers. You are FORCED to look at things like overhead, markups, time, labor rates, installation COSTS, running costs, machine costs, and the list goes on, and on. But the fact is - that for some shops....(MINE INCLUDED!!!!!!!!!!) was FORCED to start looking at ALL these things - and once you do, anyone with a good business sense can take this raw data and generate formulas or theories to estimate, quite accurately the cost of a product - when you know where you need to be to cover your costs.
Your software did have a certain number it in which GREATLY assists in that formula. That is certainly one good thing in there. (And I won't say what number does what where (That's all your proprietary information, I would think) - but I know you know what it is, and so does everyone who uses SignVox. - And the number is PRECISE and down to the penny.) But that number was gotten where? From what type of shops???? I'm not asking for a response - I have my guesses as to who it may be......And if that's who its from, then even that number isn't so spot on for most. - But it is a great start.
What others have brought up in here, and something that bothered me about being in the cloud like that too is this. Where did you get that magical number. You MUST have been tracking it, and my guess is that were were asked to track it for a certain someone - so when you placed your product in their shops, it's as turn key as the company itself.
The conspiracy theorists out there might ask what would happen if a LARGE client of yours ever started flexing their muscle and wanted to know what the average price of a real estate sign in in Florida (thier store(s) EXCLUDED) - Sounds like a REAL good way to know what the market can stand in a certain geographical area.
And before you go off thinking or even assuming (remember?) that
I think you would ever give them the data they are looking for is irrelevant. What I'm saying is - with this type of system - that IS a possibility.
And lastly (Dang, this has gone on too long, huh? - Sorry...I'll button it up right here.) - What happens when, let's say I've been using SignVOX for 5 years and now I am no longer happy with it. Where's my data? Who owns it? How do I get it. And better yet, what product available to your average end user, is even going to make sense of THAT type of database. It couldn't.
Simply answered - And that IS TRUTH. Unless you know how to go about and install a web server on your own computer (Like WAMP), and setup everything to run 'in the cloud...locally' (dumb - i know - but fact) UNLESS you are offering to, upon leaving your company, kindly convert it to something like what....a comma serperated CSV, a Access Database........
What I'm getting at is once you have the data there is no way to get it back in a COMMONLY usable format, right? If you did - that would show your relationships, both 1 to 1, and 1 to many - Which IS your software. Your 'software' consists of schemas, tables, forms, reports and relationships. That IS PROPRIETARY TO YOU AND YOU ONLY. Otherwise you release it, and tomorrow there is 800 versions of SignVox copies out there.
I'll cut it off now - I just REALLY hate when people pretend to know what I'm, thinking - then broadcast their erroneous assumptions to the world.
Sorry for the long post - And I have go to give you kudos Kevin - I'm sure there are a lot of people here who really do appreciate that you took all that time to write out responses to all of my points. Unfortunately - You can't say everybody would do that now days.
-Chad
:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
