Everyday economy cast for flat signage?

[Gino]

This is not meant to be snarky or anything negative, just inquisitive. Why would you need cast and a laminate for an economy type of sign ??

My thinking has been, if the sign is to last more than 2 or so years, be digitally printed, I'd go with a good calendered combination. If it needs to last longer, I'd go to a cast combination. Anything 2 years or less, I'd just use a good grade of calendered as mentioned. Maybe not even laminate it.

 

[Johnny Best]

BigFish: Just starting to use Arlon, you seem to like it. Is Arlon's over laminate cast on the same level as 3M and Orafol laminates?

 

[BigfishDM]

BigFish: Just starting to use Arlon, you seem to like it. Is Arlon's over laminate cast on the same level as 3M and Orafol laminates?

Me personally, I sell this cast laminate to every type of user. Cast Lam is important but I find the base vinyl to be the most important. CAST on CAST even when mixing brands is totally fine in my opinion. I would say its very comparable if not identical to any other major cast mfg.

 

[Quark]

Once its gone, I will be moving forward with a new MFG with a new adhesive technology. Arlon is great, I just have a specific need to move forward with this new material. These prices are very very aggressive and I would be amazed if you can get a better price anywhere else.

thanks, i'm looking for sustainable solution

 

[BigfishDM]

thanks, i'm looking for sustainable solution

It is sustainable, there are lots of Arlon dealers to get this from. I am just offering some extra discounts on my inventory, you would be able to keep buying it from any other Arlon dealer.

 

[Quark]

This is not meant to be snarky or anything negative, just inquisitive. Why would you need cast and a laminate for an economy type of sign ??

My thinking has been, if the sign is to last more than 2 or so years, be digitally printed, I'd go with a good calendered combination. If it needs to last longer, I'd go to a cast combination. Anything 2 years or less, I'd just use a good grade of calendered as mentioned. Maybe not even laminate it.

to cut down on inventory and never double guess if our product met the wildest customer expectations. If we can have a single roll of cast vinyl with a lam that we use across the board for any flat signage (aluminum, pvc, magnets or anything else) it would make it easier and faster for us even if it is not as economical as running two different types. It's just at ij180 pricing it is not feasible so i'm looking for suggestions

 

[bannertime]

Grimco's Briteline just came out with a cast package. They say they've been getting good reviews. We'll be giving it a shot soon. I think it's like $850ish for the kit

 

[TDFcustomSL]

Grimco's Briteline just came out with a cast package. They say they've been getting good reviews. We'll be giving it a shot soon. I think it's like $850ish for the kit

I would bet money that it is being made by Ritrama, thats who made the Optima brand from Advantage. I see now that Ritrama has a new Slide and Tack adhesive technology....

 

[bannertime]

I would bet money that it is being made by Ritrama, thats who made the Optima brand from Advantage. I see now that Ritrama has a new Slide and Tack adhesive technology....

Likely that, cause I don't think General Formulations has that type of adhesive yet.

 

[dypinc]

Anyone using General Formulations 246 / 241 combination. Seems like that may suit the original posters requirements.

 

[TXFB.INS]

Oh that sucks... We haven't used it since we got the flatbed. We have been pretty successful using 3m 48c also for durability although it's not cast it's also not a PVC product

2CT Media
with the addition of the flatbed, are y'all still using the roll application table you got from china? does once cancel the other or do both have there place and are useful
also what about lamination on the flatbed? do y'all apply to the flatbed imprints or just the vinyl?

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

2CT Media
with the addition of the flatbed, are y'all still using the roll application table you got from china? does once cancel the other or do both have there place and are useful
also what about lamination on the flatbed? do y'all apply to the flatbed imprints or just the vinyl?

We actually use it more now. We are using it for not only mounting prints, but laminating panels, doing backlit overlays or flood white, applying mounting adhesives, etc.

We are actually looking at selling our current table and moving to a larger double gantry table for increased work flow.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

It is sustainable, there are lots of Arlon dealers to get this from. I am just offering some extra discounts on my inventory, you would be able to keep buying it from any other Arlon dealer.

Off topic: That iDot removable sample you sent me last week is bad ass! Pretty cool stuff! Thanks

 

[BigfishDM]

Off topic: That iDot removable sample you sent me last week is bad ***! Pretty cool stuff! Thanks

Right on glad you liked it!

 

[bpfohler]

Ok so someone please educate me. We are screenprinters just starting to get into vinyl and I know in our business there are several small ink companies out there who are just buying from the larger manufacturers and are re-branding them.
So are you saying General Formulations and Ritrama are manufacturers that sell to companies that re-brand their product?
3M, Oracal, Avery and Arlon manufacture their own, correct!
Is there money to be saved (without sacrificing performance) by buying these so called off brands?
Who sells these brands and where can I research them?

 

[Quark]

Any reason it has to be cast?

Ij40 is a 7 year vinyl. Its what 3m recommends for flat signage. Ij35 is a 5 year. We use ij35 on real estate signs that we expect to be garbage by 2-3 years, and ij40 on long term signs .

Calandered gets a bad rep due to all the cheap crap out there.

There are two kinds of calandered... Monomeric, and polymeric .Monomeric is garbage for vinyl, and what most of the cheap brands use. 3m, Avery, even most oracal calandered is pretty good. Not 10 years like cast good... But still pretty good.

Ij40 bundle is about half the price as a 180 bundle for us, we've been using it on all our flat signs for awhile, and no complaints. I do everything from beginning (printing) to the end (vehicle installs... Sign applications) and ij40 feels like 180 to me, just not as stretchy... Which is expected in a calandered.

If your ok with trying a good calandered, I'd give ij40 a try. If you already know about mono vs poly vinyl, and want cast for a different reason.... Sorry! Most people just hear calandered and presume it's garbage, so I point it out that while mono calandered (the $100 rolls you can buy on ebay...)is crap, the more expensive 3m/avery ones arent.

We wrapped our work vehicle in 180 - we were just starting to test ij40, so I decided to wrap the back of the vehicle in it since it's pretty flat. Its been 6 months, so not too long... But so far it's holding good, and no shrinkage at all.

Thanks a lot for your in-depth reply ikarasu. Do you know if IJ-35C is mono or poly-meric as well? Also, would IJ-40 shrink like all calendered vinyls do? (flat install on simple sign blanks). Thank you

 

[ikarasu]

Thanks a lot for your in-depth reply ikarasu. Do you know if IJ-35C is mono or poly-meric as well? Also, would IJ-40 shrink like all calendered vinyls do? (flat install on simple sign blanks). Thank you

Ij-35 is a monomeric, which is why it's only a 3 year vinyl .

We haven't noticed ij40 shrink on us ever. If it does, it's not noticable. We have signs we printed for parking companies that have been in the field for a good 4-5 years and they still look fine. That said... All calandered shrinks, but it's not as bad as it was 5-10 years ago where it shrunk so much it caused a problem.

So long as you're using a polymeric from a reputable company, you'll be ok.

3m is very rigerous in their warranty / spec sheets. If they rate something at 7 years like ij40... It'll likely last 10+ . Most shops around here use ij40 for flat surfaces.

I'm sure Avery also has a good.calandeted vinyl.. but we're a 3m shop, so someone else can chime in on that one.

 

[equippaint]

All calendered will shrink a touch, not a major deal. For a simple flat sign IJ40 it is more than enough. It gets a bum rap from the guys that use the ebay china garbage and crap laminate.