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Expanding print shop to include large format - need advice

printpop

New Member
Hey all,

Noob here. I've had a design agency for 25 years. About 15 years ago I bought a small offset press to handle my clients simple print needs.

Recently, my sign maker (who I have used for 15 years) sold his business. I've become quite unhappy with the new owner and have decided that since I do about $25K in sign business a year I will get some equipment and bring it in house. I have a production artist who's is a gem and I'd like to get him more hours and this seems like the perfect fit (please, no solicitation, I've made up my mind and this is the direction I'm going in- thanks for understanding).

So, the question is I'd love to see if you can give me some great input on how I should set it up! I've been doing research for about a month, and have been reading a lot of threads here. Some great information, thank you all for sharing. My clients are few but reliable, so my needs are very specific. I'm going to list my needs first thinking that it will be the best place to start:

1 - 36" x 120" outdoor banners (at most 3 months to 5 months lightfastness, welded and grometed
2 - indoor/outdoor standup banners 36" x 48"
3 - 22" x 28" stanchion posters, mounted onto stiff PVC, styrene or gator board. Sometimes double sided. Hi gloss UV lam for indoor/outdoor use for about 6-9 months
4 - window vinyl lettering and designs. Printed, then cut. Also do the sandblasted looking (sorry, the name scrapes me now) window lettering and designs
5 - wall paper
6 - window clings
7 - assorted high quality indoor POP posters and materials

Wish List - not absolutely necessary, but would love to have these capabilities to enhance my offerings:
8 - abrasive floor and counter decals
9 - packaging decals that will withstand liquids and temperature
10 - the ability to print and cut up to 10-12 pt stock (sorry, using printing weights, not familiar yet with sign weights). Used for small run Packagin, and comps.
11 - vehicle decals (not naive enough to think we can do full car wraps, although we do a few a year)
12 - maybe do short run private label t-shirts

So....that is the gist of what I feel we can do for my current clients.

Having said that, I'm pretty conservative and don't want to spend too much in case it doesn't work out. I've set up a budget of $15-20K, so I know I will be making sacrifices in quality and the ability to do everything I want. High speed is not as important to me as quality. Clients give me a couple weeks to print materials.

So far, from this forum, I have made a tentative list of equipment and wanted to run it by you all:

1 - printer
Debated print/cut vs separate. Space is an issue, but it seems like the price is the same either way, so separate would be best. Looking at around a 42-44" printer. Thinking the Mutoh 1204.

2 - Cutter
Graphtec CE6000-60 don't think I need the larger one (only if I was going to do much larger decals, but 24" should be about the biggest window letterings ill need.
3 - Laminator
Royal Sovereign RSC-1050CL 41"

I know I'll need an assortment of other items, some of which I already have. But this is what I wanted to focus on now.

Is this what I need? Can I get away with a cheaper printer and the lam will protect it enough?

Look forward to the feedback.

Thank you in advance.
 
Printer have to be at list 48" print with- hp latex for 10k
Laminator 50"+ used ledco, RS, etc or new ustech 1 -3 k
Cutter 24" for vinyl and 48" plus for print and cut 1-3 k
Inks and supplies other 3k +
Total 15-20k
I am assuming you have all software and hand tools.
 

Robert M

New Member
Your set up

I think the 1204 printer will be a good choice and I believe that at less than 10k, it is the least expensive eco printer out there.
The 24" plotter may be an issue because most eco solvent medias don't come smaller then 30"
For the laminator, I would get one equal to the largest output from your printer.
 

Tim Aucoin

New Member
Have you accounted for SOFTWARE in your budget?
Do you know how to properly run all of the equipment you've listed?
Networking all of your new equipment?
Are your computers capable/compatible?
Are you a one-man operation?

A lot of questions need to be answered before simply jumping in with both feet. Your budget seems low to start a sign business from scratch... just sayin'! :rolleyes: Sounds like you have the know-how to learn everything and the ambition to move forward... Just make sure you think EVERYTHING through before taking the plunge (unless you have $20K to gamble away)!! Do you have a fall-back plan?

I sincerely wish you good luck in your venture! Kudos for making the decision to take control of your work! :thumb:
 

Sooner Printing

New Member
Do the gold III package if your smart ;) good luck on the new adventure.. We bought our first mutoh a few years ago now our large format runs almost more than our offset printing :).. We have been very fortunate with great client base.. Get ready for a learning curve and lots of waste starting out!
 

BigfishDM

Merchant Member
I can get you a 60" HP Z6100 for about $3300 with the onboard rip included, this will do all those applications no problem and the quality is very very good. The machine is real fast also, anyways it's worth looking into for sure.
 

signworldusinc

Merchant Member
Warm welcome from Chino, CA; we're not too far from where you are. If you ever need any printing media or wholesale banner stands and equipment; feel free to check us out. We are also an Authorized Mutoh Reseller and can service any Mutoh Printers. Good luck with your new expanded business =)

Warm regards
-Signworld Team
 

printpop

New Member
Thanks for all the replies. Sincerely. Looking into each one of your comments and evaluating the options.

Quick questions - software. As a design studio, obviously we are loaded with Macs and all the design software we need. Do the printers just run on a software rip on the Mac's, or do I have to think about getting a separate rip. Again, speed is not of the essence to me.

So we'd do a design in Illustrator, then print to the printer as with all our other devices right? Then send the cutter the outlines we make in Illustrator (which we are already completely familiar with) and send to the cutter software?

Just trying to make sure I have the workflow down. Technical side we are real solid with all the networking/computer/software skills needed.

Having said that, I'm not naive enough to anticipate that actually running these machines are going to be easy. I anticipate a LOT of ruined prints and laminations before we get it.

Also, what thickness of materials could I get away with cutting on these cutters? I want to be able to run small run boxes and comps, so I wanted to know how thick I could cut in order to see if it would even be in the ball park.

Thanks again for all the answer.
 

Techman

New Member
Having said that, I'm pretty conservative and don't want to spend too much in case it doesn't work out.

Either make the commitment ,, or not.. It will cost you lots more than just 10 grand in machines. It will cost you in software, learning curve, waste, time and other unthinkable details.
 

printpop

New Member
Thanks Techman. Maybe I wasn't specific. I would like to keep the equipment budget for these three pieces to less than $15K to $20K. I run several other businesses and know the learning curve and expenses related to that.
 

bob

It's better to have two hands than one glove.
...So we'd do a design in Illustrator, then print to the printer as with all our other devices right? Then send the cutter the outlines we make in Illustrator (which we are already completely familiar with) and send to the cutter software?...

Not hardly sayeth Big Jake.

If Illustrator is your thing then typically you's export out of their in some format or another that's compatible with your RIP. Import into your RIP and then RIP and print.

Doing a contour cut is just a wee bit trickier if you're not printing and cutting from the same software platform.

Finally, whatever printer you get is not a desktop printer on steroids, it's a whole different world. Using a large format printer with any real effect requires a skilled digital pressman, a job that's far more art than science. Something you can become but not overnight. On that road you'll end up burning through at least a few rolls of media and a lots of ink until, and you may never get it, you figure out what it's all about.
 

mark galoob

New Member
I'd say you are going to need at least 50k to do this right from scratch. U need a printer. Cutter. Lam. Table table mats knives squeegees vinyl laminate banner material etc...plus the space to store everything. 48" printer size is worthless go to 54" or you will regret it.
Plus enough media and ink to destroy while the learning curve kinks get worked out
Mark Galoob
 

401Graphics

New Member
I'd say you are going to need at least 50k to do this right from scratch. U need a printer. Cutter. Lam. Table table mats knives squeegees vinyl laminate banner material etc...plus the space to store everything. 48" printer size is worthless go to 54" or you will regret it.
Plus enough media and ink to destroy while the learning curve kinks get worked out
Mark Galoob
48" is worthless??? hahahhahaha! Completely untrue! I have used a 54" XC-540 and having 6" extra made no difference. A 48" is fine. (any less and youll wish you had a 48"). If I were to go bigger than 48" the next size would be 64" or larger.
50,000 to start? no. I dont know where you got that number from.
I could add up all of my equipment, a bunch of media, software, and cases of hoodies and shirts and it still wouldnt hit 50,000
:toasting:
 

Mainframe

New Member
Thanks for all the replies. Sincerely. Looking into each one of your comments and evaluating the options.

Quick questions - software. As a design studio, obviously we are loaded with Macs and all the design software we need. Do the printers just run on a software rip on the Mac's, or do I have to think about getting a separate rip. Again, speed is not of the essence to me.

So we'd do a design in Illustrator, then print to the printer as with all our other devices right? Then send the cutter the outlines we make in Illustrator (which we are already completely familiar with) and send to the cutter software?

Just trying to make sure I have the workflow down. Technical side we are real solid with all the networking/computer/software skills needed.

Having said that, I'm not naive enough to anticipate that actually running these machines are going to be easy. I anticipate a LOT of ruined prints and laminations before we get it.

Also, what thickness of materials could I get away with cutting on these cutters? I want to be able to run small run boxes and comps, so I wanted to know how thick I could cut in order to see if it would even be in the ball park.

Thanks again for all the answer.


You can buy Parallels and install Windows on your Mac like it is just another program. I have a large format Roland machine that prints and cuts, (VP 540) Roland makes a software program called Versaworks they provide with the printer, I find it works very well with the Mac/Windows set up, Versaworks has a nifty little feature built in where you print a swatch right from your printer and cut it up and put it on a zip tie much like a pantone color swatch.

Each color on the swatch has a number, these number swatches can be assigned in Illustrator and when that number prints out on the Roland, that is the color you get. Your designer will love this feature, and will also like being able to edit and print/cut the files on the same computer.

Versaworks is just a rip program, it is designed to process the files that were created in another design program, this works out very well when installed on a Mac.

I thought the same about ruined prints etc when I bought my machine, but I made money on my very first print, and my second job was 5 4x8 banners that were waiting on my Mac to be printed, I switched the material from vinyl to banner material and punched out the banners 1 by one!
If I were you I would check out the Rolands, mine is going on 5 years without much problem at all.

pm me if you have any questions
 

gnemmas

New Member
In sign business for 25 years, expanding into print shop business:

Business cards, flyers, post cards, NCR forms, brochures. Doing appor. $25K a year in this part.

Farm these out completely and worry free.

What will be the Forum to go if I want to buy Print Shop equipment? Thank you in advance.
 
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