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Extremely Fast Wide Format

Rob Bellissimo

Rob Bellissimo

New Member
We have just installed a Vortex 4200. with 5 Memjet heads. printing at speeds of 6" or 12" per second. We are still profiling materials but so far so good. here's a demo

[video=youtube;zk1ALu6OTww]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk1ALu6OTww[/video]

not the one in our shop as i just have not had the time to record a video.
 
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jasonx

jasonx

New Member
Rob Bellissimo said:
We have just installed a Vortex 4200. with 5 Memjet heads. printing at speeds of 6" or 12" per second. We are still profiling materials but so far so good. here's a demo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk1ALu6OTww not the one in our shop as i just have not had the time to record a video.
Click to expand...

Do you have to manually wipe your heads for maintenance or is there an inbuilt maintenance mechanism?

How does it handle nozzle drop outs? In the video they are printing maps which usually works fine. Problem arises when you are printing solid colours.

Would be great to get some feedback from another memjet user.
 
Biker Scout

Biker Scout

New Member
There aren't any outdoor sign grade inks available for MemJet yet, and last I spoke with them, they didn't plan on it. Nozzle drop out is minimal, since the inks they use won't clog. But they did have a built in algorithm to automatically detect misfiring nozzles and divert to nearest neighbor.

The only ink that could conceivably be used with MemJet print heads is a straight LED UV cure ink. But it would have to be slowed down just a bit and have at least 100W of LED power per chipset. I can personally vouch that one 1.25" x 1.25" UV LED Chip costs about $100 from the chip manufacturer, that in order to make a long bar of UV chips would be exceedingly power hungry, bright and hot. Not to mention expensive. You would need at least 40 of them to span 48" width, minimum. The single chip I have throws off an extraordinary amount of heat for being an LED. So, heatsinks and fans are a must. (And I think I've sunburned my retinas)
 
TomHawk

TomHawk

New Member
Biker Scout said:
There aren't any outdoor sign grade inks available for MemJet yet, and last I spoke with them, they didn't plan on it. Nozzle drop out is minimal, since the inks they use won't clog. But they did have a built in algorithm to automatically detect misfiring nozzles and divert to nearest neighbor.

The only ink that could conceivably be used with MemJet print heads is a straight LED UV cure ink. But it would have to be slowed down just a bit and have at least 100W of LED power per chipset. I can personally vouch that one 1.25" x 1.25" UV LED Chip costs about $100 from the chip manufacturer, that in order to make a long bar of UV chips would be exceedingly power hungry, bright and hot. Not to mention expensive. You would need at least 40 of them to span 48" width, minimum. The single chip I have throws off an extraordinary amount of heat for being an LED. So, heatsinks and fans are a must. (And I think I've sunburned my retinas)
Click to expand...

Would Laminating be another solution for outdoor use?




We looked at the Rena mach5 memjet printer before for envelopes but the fact that their ink will run when it gets wet made us look elsewhere.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oMtBhIFSPg
 
Biker Scout

Biker Scout

New Member
No. Laminating would be a waste of lamination. They use dye based inks, not even pigment based. Which is why the ink bleeds so easily, but their nozzles don't clog. They will fade within a month or two outdoors. Think of this as a $42k indoor poster printer. But a really fast indoor poster printer!

If you want to print posters really fast, look into the KIP C7800. It's toner based and you can technically run the Tyvek stuff and polyester stuff through there to get a legit outdoor product. Which could be an awesome selling point. 3x8 banner in 10 seconds, while you wait!

EDIT: I see they do have more products you can print on, from adhesive backed, to film and a soft 10 oz. banner material. <-- I'm assuming it's still the same as the Tyvek type material I saw at SGIA.
 
jasonx

jasonx

New Member
Biker Scout said:
There aren't any outdoor sign grade inks available for MemJet yet, and last I spoke with them, they didn't plan on it. Nozzle drop out is minimal, since the inks they use won't clog. But they did have a built in algorithm to automatically detect misfiring nozzles and divert to nearest neighbor.

The only ink that could conceivably be used with MemJet print heads is a straight LED UV cure ink. But it would have to be slowed down just a bit and have at least 100W of LED power per chipset. I can personally vouch that one 1.25" x 1.25" UV LED Chip costs about $100 from the chip manufacturer, that in order to make a long bar of UV chips would be exceedingly power hungry, bright and hot. Not to mention expensive. You would need at least 40 of them to span 48" width, minimum. The single chip I have throws off an extraordinary amount of heat for being an LED. So, heatsinks and fans are a must. (And I think I've sunburned my retinas)
Click to expand...

Is this a new Memjet head? The Memjet heads we have have plenty of nozzle drop out and don't divert that nozzle to another nozzle. It requires a manual physical wipe of the heads.

The problem is if you are printing a solid colour you will have a thin line appearing right down your print. If this is new then it would be good to change to.
 
Biker Scout

Biker Scout

New Member
The nozzle detection was from their earliest press kit stuff. I can't seem to find the verbiage on their new/updated site. But it was right after this sentence:

"In order to avoid print quality issues at the gap between chips, Memjet has a uniquely patented "drop triangle" element at the right edge of each chip. The nozzles in the triangle element are timed to fire as if they are sitting with the rows of nozzles above them, avoiding any missing nozzles across the seam between IC chips."
 
jasonx

jasonx

New Member
Biker Scout said:
The nozzle detection was from their earliest press kit stuff. I can't seem to find the verbiage on their new/updated site. But it was right after this sentence:

"In order to avoid print quality issues at the gap between chips, Memjet has a uniquely patented "drop triangle" element at the right edge of each chip. The nozzles in the triangle element are timed to fire as if they are sitting with the rows of nozzles above them, avoiding any missing nozzles across the seam between IC chips."
Click to expand...

From my experience it doesn't work well. Our user manual for the machine actually states to avoid printing blocks or solid colors for this very issue.
 
Biker Scout

Biker Scout

New Member
I've often thought that the MemJet wide path idea was cool. But something keeps telling me that the head still needed to vibrate back and forth in a short timed movement. Thus eliminating the potential for banding/striping.

I still think it should be considered in it's beta stage at this point. It's almost there, but not offering much other than super speed. 42" wide is limiting for real commercial use, other than the poster market. And Xanté taking the reigns for the wide format unit is going to kill it. Seriously, $42k for a poster printer!!! (with dye inks) :rolleyes:
 
Rob Bellissimo

Rob Bellissimo

New Member
we have been running our Vortex 4200 for almost a week now. it has preformed very well, for both maps /line work as well as some full coverage work. the heads have there own internal maintenance system which makes it a lot easier.
we are still doing calibrations for some different medias, running mostly 28-42 lb coated bonds. next week we get into gloss and satin.
 
Rob Bellissimo

Rob Bellissimo

New Member
Things still going well with our Vortex4200. running everything from coated bonds to gloss/satin, tyvex and light weight canvas.
the support from RTI has been great. we have also installed the RIG802 in-line folder, 9x12,fan folds...
since my last post, we have installed (two) Vortex4200 with high end clients and the transition has been fairly smooth. still some hicups, but over all good results.
 
Rob Bellissimo

Rob Bellissimo

New Member
hi all, i thought i would share the latest promo video for the Vortex4200. this machine is producing some incredible images combined with the neck breaking speeds and low operating costs its quickly becoming a HIT!!:omg::omg::Big Laugh

[video=youtube;GNG7ueO7Xa8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNG7ueO7Xa8[/video]
 
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FrankW

FrankW

New Member
Next year HP will release their own PageWide-Technology. And - as far as I know in difference to Memjet - they will print with pigment inks.

Have a look:

[video=youtube;hvKH7fKKCAM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvKH7fKKCAM[/video]
 
jasonx

jasonx

New Member
Rob Bellissimo said:
as of now:
250gsm thick roll feed, 400 gsm sheet fed
Click to expand...

How do they maintain no nozzle drop outs during a print run?

I know if a nozzle drops out in the memjet print head you will get a line appearing down your print.

The user manual on smaller memjet devices also states to avoid using solid colours in your designs.

How do these bigger machines overcome this if they are just using a staggered memjet array?
 
Rob Bellissimo

Rob Bellissimo

New Member
jasonx said:
How do they maintain no nozzle drop outs during a print run?

I know if a nozzle drops out in the memjet print head you will get a line appearing down your print.

The user manual on smaller memjet devices also states to avoid using solid colours in your designs.

How do these bigger machines overcome this if they are just using a staggered memjet array?
Click to expand...


the technology is very similar as the small format, however drop out can be minimized with proper maintenance and using approved medias. though you also need to take into account viewing distance, as this is wide format typically you are viewing from a distance and a "thin line" will most likely not be visible. chalk it up to the price paid for printing that fast.
i can tell you that after using the unit for a while we do not get dropouts and images are very clean.
 
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