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Fair Price or Rip Off?
- Thread starter Master's Touch
- Start date
SignManiac
New Member
I wouldn't be happy at that price but...I can buy B-Bond single side for $34.00 a sheet and direct print them in ten minutes time for each one on our flat bed. $1,500 - $204 for the ACP. $1,300 net for one hours work isn't terrible.
No getting around the downward spiral of price so you have to figure out other ways to make good money.
No getting around the downward spiral of price so you have to figure out other ways to make good money.
Gino
Premium Subscriber
Yowsa.... you da man
It takes us about 15 minutes a side with lining up and taking it off. :Big Laugh
Really, I don't understand why for principle... someone doesn't want to turn a machine on for less then $XX.00 of dollars when the thing should be running pretty much all day long already ?? Like I said, we'd have the total job done in less then 2 hours with about $240 in materials, ink and handling.
Sure, it's not what we got 20 or 30 years ago, but times have changed and if you think by being stubborn and holding onto principles you're gonna get more work..... think again.
The economy has been bad for years and if I see a possibility of work and it's not within my normal rate, but I still make a good buck, I ain't gonna turn down 90% of something for 100% of nothing.
Sure, it's not what we got 20 or 30 years ago, but times have changed and if you think by being stubborn and holding onto principles you're gonna get more work..... think again.
The economy has been bad for years and if I see a possibility of work and it's not within my normal rate
Jillbeans
New Member
15 years ago I was getting $325 for a single-sided 4'x8' handpainted uninstalled sign.
I charge way more than that now be it hand-painted or cut vynull.
There is no way I'd do a sign that size for $250.
Let them go to the local hack.
I can't understand why, if printers are so expensive, materials, etc the price of everything is going up, that people charge so little.
I charge way more than that now be it hand-painted or cut vynull.
There is no way I'd do a sign that size for $250.
Let them go to the local hack.
I can't understand why, if printers are so expensive, materials, etc the price of everything is going up, that people charge so little.
Pat Whatley
New Member
I sub out my printing and I could still do good at that.
$35 polymetal
$80 prints
---------------------
$115 each
x 6
----------------------
$690 material cost
+150 2 hours mounting, handling, trimming, invoicing, loading into customers truck, making deposit, pooping, checking reddit, fiddling with the radio.
----------------------
$840 total cost
$1500 selling price
$760 profit.
$35 polymetal
$80 prints
---------------------
$115 each
x 6
----------------------
$690 material cost
+150 2 hours mounting, handling, trimming, invoicing, loading into customers truck, making deposit, pooping, checking reddit, fiddling with the radio.
----------------------
$840 total cost
$1500 selling price
$760 profit.
Gino
Premium Subscriber
Have you ever gone to the doctor and had a rather expensive procedure performed and the doctor gives you a bill of $138,733.86 and you submit it to your insurance company and the doctor settles for $23,488.92 ??
I know exactly what you're saying, but try to remember something....
Back in the day, we hand lettered Automobile Dealership Pricing Signs or your average Pool Rules Sign and they had to be perfect. To get every lower case 'e' and 's' all the same along with all the upper case 'O's having the same roundness, it took practice and skill. It took a steady hand and a small 3' x 4' 1-sided sign would bring in maybe $200 or $300 dollars. It took maybe 4 or 5 hours to finish. It took about $20. worth of wood sealed, painted and top coated and maybe $1.00 worth of lettering paint. If you were charging $25 an hour, you got yourself a nice deal going. You basically doubled your money. Now, you and almost every other member on this forum and in almost every other sign shop USA and around the world, now rely on electricity, expensive equipment, vinyl, application tape, labor, substrates, overhead and whatever else it takes and you only get $350 for a 4' x 8' sign. You've bought all that equipment, inventory and put away your brushes and paint and have a much higher overhead to only get still nothing for your effort.
As the industry changes, it's a given that the costs are gonna be higher, but bring in the novices and they ruin not only the quality and the craftsmanship, but the business end of it as well.
So, buying machines and creating overhead just goes with the territory. As many on here understand, these big machines are expensive, but you can't always get your way if the guy down the street is working on volume and less profit. If he turns enough to keep his/her employees paid, the bills paid and has enough to stay satisfied, what's wrong with it. We're all doing it.
As mentioned, by wholesaling it or doing it in house, you can more than triple or quadruple your costs on a job like this and still make a good buck.
Does it happen ?? Yes, but not very often.... at least not to us. We generally get our price, but I will work with people if I deem it necessary and profitable enough.
royster13
New Member
Because the printer companies have been so successful in selling 10s of 1,000s of printers to folks who think this is a "get rich" business....
John Butto
New Member
So after a day of getting some signs priced out, here is the tally:
People who would do the signs for the price quoted.
Gino
SignManiac
Mosh
SignsPro plus
Weekend
Visual800
Those who would not:
SkyHigh
Colorado
fmg
JillBeans
Randy101
Undecided:
Pat White
Sightline
Signpost
People who would do the signs for the price quoted.
Gino
SignManiac
Mosh
SignsPro plus
Weekend
Visual800
Those who would not:
SkyHigh
Colorado
fmg
JillBeans
Randy101
Undecided:
Pat White
Sightline
Signpost
Baz
New Member
It's one big print mounted on one sheet of stock. Of course you can go low with an item like that. You can't compare this type of 4x8 to what we were doing 20 years ago. Now it takes 20 minutes to produce a sign like that.
This is when you can upsell on design and installation. The sign panel itself is sweet f$&k all.
This is when you can upsell on design and installation. The sign panel itself is sweet f$&k all.
John Butto
New Member
I would be on the to do list. I would also tell him that it is a cash deal up front since he is getting such a good deal and then off to the track and try to make some serious money. Kentucky Derby coming up, tribox the favorite, the highest odds and the best looking horse with some big hips.
2B
Active Member
I didn't see you on the list John..... !
And sure, I'll stay under the undecided umbrella. I hate price matching, and can't help but get a little insulted when people only care about pricing....but if we were slow I would probably do it for that price. (using bottom of the barrel materials as previously stated)
as soon as those words are uttered "price match" it always sends alarms off that bottom dollar is the only point and the up-sell is virtually impossible
I find it odd that people are quoting "profit" figures on materials alone, do you not have overheads and machinery to also pay off? It costs me $650/hr to have shop open, I'd have to consider our customer history, current workload, potential opportunity cost as to whether I'd do the job. I'd trust my salesmen to negotiate to at least $300 per panel.
Standard price for me would be $375+GST (10% sales tax) per panel, plus artwork. ACP panels aren't much more expensive in Australia but vinyl is about twice the cost even though our dollars are about 1:1
Standard price for me would be $375+GST (10% sales tax) per panel, plus artwork. ACP panels aren't much more expensive in Australia but vinyl is about twice the cost even though our dollars are about 1:1
Gino
Premium Subscriber
I find it odd that people are quoting "profit" figures on materials alone, do you not have overheads and machinery to also pay off? It costs me $650/hr to have shop open, I'd have to consider our customer history, current workload, potential opportunity cost as to whether I'd do the job. I'd trust my salesmen to negotiate to at least $300 per panel.
Standard price for me would be $375+GST (10% sales tax) per panel, plus artwork. ACP panels aren't much more expensive in Australia but vinyl is about twice the cost even though our dollars are about 1:1
I really don't understand your reasoning. :Oops: Sorry.
With this strategy, you're saying you can't produce anything for less than maybe $2,275 US an hour ?? That's a pretty steep price for say a truck lettering job or something similar.
I know of companies in this industry and other industries, where the overhead is enormous, but that doesn't dictate their prices are gonna be that. A friend of mine works for a company where there are over 8,000 employees and they are still super competitive with the little 4 man stores of the same trade.
SameDay Signs
New Member
I say if its a good customer or potential for a good customer throw on some cheap 3164 or something with 210 laminate and you'll have $75 into each sign plus your time obviously and its a good profit and better yet you get the job and hopefully the repeat business if it done to his liking.
It sucks to have to price match but in order to get get these kinda jobs instead of those people wanting $5 stickers all day long I'll match it in a heartbeat!
It sucks to have to price match but in order to get get these kinda jobs instead of those people wanting $5 stickers all day long I'll match it in a heartbeat!
Joe Diaz
New Member
Where did you get that from what he said?
Gino
Premium Subscriber
He said his cost is $650 an hour. Do you know of anyone that prices out at cost ??
I don't. Most people triple to quadruple their cost
If something costs you time and materials $650. Is that what you're gonna charge ??
Joe Diaz
New Member
He said:" It costs me $650/hr to have shop open" not "his cost is $650 an hour" There is a difference. He didn't say how big his shop was. Depending on how many employees he has and other factors the cost for labor could vary.
Gino
Premium Subscriber
Joe.......
He could very easily mean that, but that still doesn't make any sense to me. That is precisely why I originally wrote, I don't understand his reasoning.
I don't see the difference between......." It costs me $650/hr to have shop open" not "his cost is $650 an hour"
If between employees, insurance, lights, heat, loan payments, mortgage payments and whatever else is figured into that $650/hr.... his cost of operations is $650 an hour period in my book every hour. At the end of the day.... that boils down to $5,200 a day to operate or he needs to be billing out over $18,000 a day. Good... no great money, nothing to sneeze about.
Hence, the reason I asked for his explanation. I'm not nit-picking or putting him down or I wouldn't have put the example I mentioned. I honestly don't see the difference you mentioned or how if he needs a certain amount an hour.
Perhaps I'm really missing something here and need someone to boink me in the head.
fixtureman
New Member
I would do it. I can get it subbed out for $150 a sheet and not even have to do anything but pick it up and deliver.