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Finally, we're growing some conscious

Discussion in 'General Chit-Chat' started by Texas_Signmaker, May 1, 2019.

  1. Texas_Signmaker

    Texas_Signmaker Very Active Signmaker

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  2. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

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    It depends on how they go about doing that "reducing". Sounds good in the press, but in practice, may not be worth squat. Not saying it's going to be that way, just something that would always be in the back of my mind.
     
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  3. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    I've heard where some companies have said, it's cheaper to pay the fines, than to pay for the changeover with equipment and whatnot.

    The real question is..... how is the rest of the world gonna partake in this idea ?? Who will do the inspections and be the watchdog(s) ??​
     
  4. equippaint

    equippaint Very Active Member

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    Hands are going to start being forced on the subject of waste disposal as more countries are starting to refuse taking foreign garbage and recyclables. Like WW said, much of this is a PR stunt with no actual moral force behind it but it's better than not doing anything.
     
  5. TimToad

    TimToad Very Active Member

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    The concept of socially responsible investing has been employed for over 200 years. There is no reason to expect lower returns if investing in the better socially responsible funds. In some cases, they outperform the S&P500 and non-screened investments on a regular basis. Most of these investment firms have international funds and in many cases, those are linked to efforts in other countries to reduce pollution, climate change effects, energy efficiency, etc.

    Germany has just announced its plan to eliminate ALL of its coal fired power plants by 2025. China has cancelled construction of over 100 coal fired power plants and is neck deep in investing in clean energy development. Other countries are years ahead of our collective efforts.

    We represent 5% of the world's population and to this day produce 20-25% of the pollution and waste and have since these statistics have been recorded. Pointing our fingers at others as well as staying in deep denial about our materialistic lifestyle for far too long has cost us valuable time and resources in confronting OUR country's contributions to the problems associated with climate change and other related issues.

    During the 2001 and 2008-2009 recession and bear markets, all of our socially responsible investments lost less value, stayed solvent and regained lost value faster compared to many conventional investments.

    https://www.thebalance.com/a-short-history-of-socially-responsible-investing-3025578
     
  6. rjssigns

    rjssigns Major Contributor

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    Was talking to my brother(a retired engineer) regarding the plastic straw ban. He cited Starbucks jump to eliminate straws and the issue it caused. Seems their new coffee cup lid has much more plastic in it than the outgoing lid and the straw they "eliminated".:confused:
     
  7. Texas_Signmaker

    Texas_Signmaker Very Active Signmaker

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    I've stopped getting lids just because it is useless for an adult.

    I'm still disturbed by the amount of trash at the end of a fast food meal
     
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  8. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

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    While I'm not a coffee drinker period, I wouldn't necessarily say a lid is useless for an adult. Depends on the situation.

    Doesn't necessarily have to be trash (or waste) in the traditional sense that should be disturbing no matter where one gets their meal.

    Now with fast food in general, a lot more things to be disturbed (and level of said disturbance) then just the amount of trash.
     
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  9. rjssigns

    rjssigns Major Contributor

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    If I'm going to be gone all or most of a day I pack lunch, snacks and drinks in reusable containers and it goes in a cooler or lunch pail. No waste save for some cheap paper napkins. When I'm on site I don't leave for lunch or any other meal. Got real good at packing whatever I needed when I worked in a factory.
     
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  10. AF

    AF Active Member

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    The question the anti-straw posse still hasn’t answered is this:

    How does a used drinking straw get from Idaho to the center of the Pacific Ocean?
     
  11. bannertime

    bannertime "You guys do banners, right?"

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    I'm not anti-straw. I've got one in my cup right now plus a bunch in my trash can. However, that answer is pretty simple: water ways, wind, animals, and people.

    And it doesn't even matter if trash makes it to the ocean. Having it laying around in your water ways, on the road, wherever is just... trashy.
     
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  12. Bobby H

    Bobby H Very Active Member

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    I'm not a hardcore "tree hugger" type, but I am really troubled about the amount of trash, hazardous waste and plastics in particular finding its way into our lakes and the oceans. I think climate change is a very serious issue, but this waste thing is much more dire since it has more immediate consequences. The waste isn't a matter of spoiling the natural beauty of the ocean. The real problem is the waste is finding its way into our food supply. Those plastics circulate around in lakes and oceans and slowly get ground up into smaller and smaller bits. Those bits get eaten by fish. Then the fish get eaten by birds or by us. All that garbage out there has the potential to poison us.

    I think the straw thing is a little silly. Those plastic things holding six-packs of soft drinks together pose a bigger hazard for wildlife. It's super outrageous for these commercial fishing vessels to cut loose giant drift nets and let them snare all types of marine wildlife. That's pretty cruel and unforgivable.
     
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  13. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    That baloney about China and Germany doing their diligent part is all talk and nothing more from post #5.

    While no one would wanna live near these sophisticated incinerating waste to energy plants, there are other ways to dispose of this problem and be completely done with it with almost no ill-effects.

    It's called gasification, which with practically no oxygen in the mix, none of the harmful low levels of toxic pollutants such as dioxins, acid gases, and heavy metals, are formed. A more attractive technology right now is pyrolysis, in which plastics are shredded and melted at lower temperatures than gasification and in the presence of even less oxygen. The heat breaks plastic polymers down into smaller hydrocarbons, which can be refined to diesel fuel and even into other petrochemical products—including new plastics.

    This all coming about, because just this past January, a consortium of petrochemical and consumer-goods companies called the Alliance to End Plastic Waste, including Exxon, Dow, Total, Shell, Chevron Phillips, and Procter & Gamble, committed to spending $1.5 billion over five years on the problem. Their aim is to support alternative materials and delivery systems, beef up recycling programs, and—more controversially—promote technologies that convert plastics to fuel or energy.


    In reality, it would be better to just resist using this stuff, instead of abusing the need for it. Not using the lids and straws is a good start, but I'm sure many of you have the frilly plastic bags and what do y'all use instead of PVC and styrene, komacel, HUD, sintra and all the mask wrapping and containers your inks comes in. Most of this stuff is produced overseas and we use it for convenience sake, here. If you don't wanna contribute, find a job crossing kids at a corner during school hours and drink out of a metal container. ​
     
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  14. TimToad

    TimToad Very Active Member

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    The areas of major concern that could have dramatic positive impacts go way beyond what a burger is wrapped in or if we accept the straw servers reflexively provide. Vast amounts of native forest and natural plains are plowed under every year just for meat production around the world. As that happens, millions of acres are then converted to desert, where little will grow. Desertification is a major issue around the world. Most grains grown in much of the world is for meat production and is as inefficient way to feed the hungry masses as anything.

    To use the fast food example further, one can't ignore the size and type vehicles we drive TO the restaurant and the impact of sitting in a drive thru line in a truck with a V8 idling for 15 minutes while they prepare our food, while all the lights, TV, etc. are left on at home or the shop.

    There is an organization named the Rocky Mountain Institute led by a long time energy efficiency expert named, Amory Lovins. He and the organization have been hard at it for almost 40 years trying to convince government and industry that embracing efficiency is a win-win equation for many of our issues.

    Worrying about the straw instead of those other aspects is like asking a surgeon to remove a splinter in a finger for one of us while an artery in our leg is bleeding out.

    Thankfully, creative, innovative people around the world are coming up with alternatives and bringing them to the marketplace every day. A Thai company has just released a biodegradable, natural straw made from some type of native reed or straw that grows perfectly straight and cylindrical. An Indian company has invented a line of food grade, biodegradable flatware, plates and cups from steam compressed oatmeal. Even with hot food or beverages in them, they don't start disintegrating for two hours then turn to mush that you can actually eat if you like. A German leader in solar technology has developed an interlocking solar roof panel that turns your entire roof into a giant collector.

    The list goes on and on.
     
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  15. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

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    I hate it when people do this and deflect by calling the person a tree hugger (I'm not saying this is you Bobby, it just brought it up at the forefront of my mind) if they think a certain way or this, that or the other if they don't agree with someone in totality.

    I'm not a hardcore tree hugger type either, I may be more then the average person, because I do like and thoroughly enjoy (more then just the Griswald enjoy) the outdoors.

    Even if you don't believe in man-made climate change (I'm not saying I do or don't), waste isn't good for us and the environment. Period. Regardless of the others. The good thing in most instances, helping out in limiting waste (especially with efficiency) would more then likely help in other areas as well.

    The downside is that it's going to cost. It costs to be conscious, and it tends to hit those that don't need the hit more then others. That's typically why "you" don't see economies start to worry about issues of this type until they hit a certain threshold.

    It does better in the long run in a lot of ways, but far more people are more about immediate then they long term and to make it work out in the short term, have to hit them in a way that being wasteful is worse then the extra cost of being more efficient. Sucks, but it's the way that it is.
     
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  16. TimToad

    TimToad Very Active Member

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    An green thinking entrepreneur has invented a biodegradable six pack holder that is EDIBLE made from pressed barley and wheat processing waste and completely free of plastics. Craft brewers all over the world are giving their spent grains to farmers and bakeries to be incorporated into feed and baked goods.

    https://futurism.com/videos/this-6-pack-ring-is-edible-talk-about-animal-and-eco-friendly
     
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  17. TimToad

    TimToad Very Active Member

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    Labels are dangerous and easily misinterpreted.

    I don't accept the notion that doing the right thing for the environment we all need to preserve to sustain us has to cost more. It may cost a little more up front, but typically ends up saving money, resources and lessens waste in a myriad of ways.

    Let's start with a couple appliances most homes have. Installing a well built, high efficiency washing machine or dishwasher will save water, energy to operate it, they use less soap which lowers outputs into the sewer system, the faster and more efficient spin cycle helps your dryer use far less energy and they are easier on your clothes, so you replace clothes less frequently.

    What costs far more for the planet is a mostly male driven vanity culture which helps men think that driving some monster rig will help them project toughness and machismo. The cost and effect of ignoring what that consumer choice has on everyone else including the flora and fauna that sustains us is huge.
     
  18. TimToad

    TimToad Very Active Member

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  19. Texas_Signmaker

    Texas_Signmaker Very Active Signmaker

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