• I want to thank all the members that have upgraded your accounts. I truly appreciate your support of the site monetarily. Supporting the site keeps this site up and running as a lot of work daily goes on behind the scenes. Click to Support Signs101 ...

Finally, we're growing some conscious

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
I don't accept the notion that doing the right thing for the environment we all need to preserve to sustain us has to cost more. It may cost a little more up front, but typically ends up saving money, resources and lessens waste in a myriad of ways.

That's why I said it's better in the long run. Problem is, what defines the beginning of the long run and can people handle the extra cost until that long run hits?

What costs far more for the planet is a mostly male driven vanity culture which helps men think that driving some monster rig will help them project toughness and machismo. The cost and effect of ignoring what that consumer choice has on everyone else including the flora and fauna that sustains us is huge.

I don't think assigning sexist blame is going to do well to get people to change.

Assigning sexist blame gives the ability to distract from the real issue and coming up with a solution. It serves no real purpose and it also tends to follow an over generalization fallacy (more often then not).
 

TimToad

Active Member
That's why I said it's better in the long run. Problem is, what defines the beginning of the long run and can people handle the extra cost until that long run hits?



I don't think assigning sexist blame is going to do well to get people to change.

Assigning sexist blame gives the ability to distract from the real issue and coming up with a solution. It serves no real purpose and it also tends to follow an over generalization fallacy (more often then not).

In a society where we blow huge amounts of money on vanity, recreational toys, electronics, etc. maybe it's time to pay the piper for decades of ignoring the warning signs of our disposable lifestyle.

Our super efficiency dishwasher cost around $500, the washer and dryer were about $1,250 for the pair. In our area, a $100 plus water bill is pretty common and an average electric bill is even more. Ours are about $25 for water and less than $50 for electricity per month.

Our BOSCH dishwasher uses 3 gallons of water to clean our dishes with very little prerinsing. A typical dishwasher uses 10-15 gallons to do the same cycle load. A conventional clothes washer uses 25-30 gallons of water for a normal size load. Ours uses about 5 and it spins the clothes so well that they are barely damp when they go into the dryer. Other conservation minded appliances we have is a tankless water heater, 1.0 gallon per flush toilets, low flow shower heads, etc. We also turn our fridge to its lowest settings to keep our food fresh without overkill. We have what is called a recirculating pump for hot water. When it senses a demand it pumps hot water almost instantly to the open faucet. I don't understand the physics behind it, but you're not wasting 5 minutes worth of water waiting for the hot water to arrive. It cost $150, took an hour to install and the manufacturer information claims it will save a family of four 10,000 gallons of water and the energy trying to heat it per year. The thing probably paid for itself in less than the first six months.

These are all easy to do, not exorbitantly priced upgrades that make a huge difference. It's all about priorities. Want to keep kicking the can down the road for future generations to deal with, then EVERYTHING costs too much to do.

In Santa Fe, NM a city prone to drought, they created a fund paid for by the lodgers tax hotels and such pay every month which pays for the stocking and labor charges for every licensed plumber in town to carry at least one or more low flow toilets on their trucks at all times. Regardless of the reason for a housecall, if the plumber sees an old, wasteful or leaking toilet, they replace it with a new one and all costs are paid by the fund. Some of this stuff is a no brainer. Electric utilities have been giving away energy efficient light bulbs, etc. for years because its cheaper to do so, then build new power plants.

It's not sexist to point out who is buying the overwhelming majority of machismo, vanity related rigs that unless used for heavy construction and hauling, have little purpose other than to make men feel more manly and add a disproportionate amount of emissions. I don't see women being the primary demographic buying monster rigs, jacking them up, altering their emissions, rolling coal on "tree huggers" for "fun", etc. Nor are women buying the most tickets to auto racing events where one drives the big rig to an event with thousands of other dudes and sit and watch high powered cars with little or no emission controls drive in circles.

Some generalizations if true are appropriate unless its your ox being gored, then of course you'll be offended.
 

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
Our super efficiency dishwasher cost around $500, the washer and dryer were about $1,250 for the pair. In our area, a $100 plus water bill is pretty common and an average electric bill is even more. Ours are about $25 for water and less than $50 for electricity per month.

Our BOSCH dishwasher uses 3 gallons of water to clean our dishes with very little prerinsing. A typical dishwasher uses 10-15 gallons to do the same cycle load. A conventional clothes washer uses 25-30 gallons of water for a normal size load. Ours uses about 5 and it spins the clothes so well that they are barely damp when they go into the dryer. Other conservation minded appliances we have is a tankless water heater, 1.0 gallon per flush toilets, low flow shower heads, etc. We also turn our fridge to its lowest settings to keep our food fresh without overkill. We have what is called a recirculating pump for hot water. When it senses a demand it pumps hot water almost instantly to the open faucet. I don't understand the physics behind it, but you're not wasting 5 minutes worth of water waiting for the hot water to arrive. It cost $150, took an hour to install and the manufacturer information claims it will save a family of four 10,000 gallons of water and the energy trying to heat it per year. The thing probably paid for itself in less than the first six months.

Our experience with these higher efficiency washer/driver is that it takes more loads, which translates to more water used.

We have done other things, gone to solar (when had to subsidies for it) and have seen better bang for our buck that way then in appliances, but we were more of an early adopter and that doesn't always turn out well.

Now, some brands are better then others, but sometimes results do vary.

It's not sexist to point out who is buying the overwhelming majority of machismo, vanity related rigs that unless used for heavy construction and hauling, have little purpose other than to make men feel more manly and add a disproportionate amount of emissions. I don't see women being the primary demographic buying monster rigs, jacking them up, altering their emissions, rolling coal on "tree huggers" for "fun", etc.

No, more often then not, that is the case.

I would, however, say females being the majority of those that indulge in cosmetics and cosmetics don't tend to have the best environmentally conscious history. Could even extend that to a degree with apparel.

View have shifted and it's not quite as widespread (or just better hidden).

The point that I'm trying to make, is that everyone has a hand in this problem. Nit picking on who has the greater blame, does nothing but distract.

You are going after one subculture, while does have an impact, there is still plenty of blame to go around.

Are you more concerned with fixing blame or fixing the problem?

Some generalizations if true are appropriate unless its your ox being gored, then of course you'll be offended.

I didn't say I was offended, I was merely pointing out a concern that I would have with narrowing the blame when there is plenty to go around.
 

TimToad

Active Member
Our experience with these higher efficiency washer/driver is that it takes more loads, which translates to more water used.

We have done other things, gone to solar (when had to subsidies for it) and have seen better bang for our buck that way then in appliances, but we were more of an early adopter and that doesn't always turn out well.

Now, some brands are better then others, but sometimes results do vary.



No, more often then not, that is the case.

I would, however, say females being the majority of those that indulge in cosmetics and cosmetics don't tend to have the best environmentally conscious history. Could even extend that to a degree with apparel.

View have shifted and it's not quite as widespread (or just better hidden).

The point that I'm trying to make, is that everyone has a hand in this problem. Nit picking on who has the greater blame, does nothing but distract.

You are going after one subculture, while does have an impact, there is still plenty of blame to go around.

Are you more concerned with fixing blame or fixing the problem?



I didn't say I was offended, I was merely pointing out a concern that I would have with narrowing the blame when there is plenty to go around.

Absolutely, things vary from model to model and brand. We agree way more than I think this forum would have people believe.

We ALL have skin in the game and need to accept our responsibility for our impacts big or small.

I'll take a stadium full of makeup clad women compared to an equal number of dudes fulling the parking lot with monster trucks rolling coal.

I didn't mean "you" personally being offended, I meant any person whose ox was being gored will naturally recoil and feel defensive or start searching for justifications for what they don't want to accept or do.
 

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
Our water meter is broken and month after month they bill us for 0 gallons...

On this note, there is one football player around here that had a leak for a couple of yrs. It actually would cost him more to fix the leak then to just pay the fine (that's why it took so long).

Water is a very precious commodity whose price is pretty well subsidized.

Now, there are ways to still subsidize it for people that need it subsidized and yet give the mental effect (like making the person pay the bill and then a subsidy comes later to offset the cost) of it being more impactful.
 

equippaint

Active Member
We conserve water by using disposable Styrofoam plates, plastic utensils and crapping on my neighbors front lawn. Gotta do your part.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Sooo..... if you crap on your neighbor's lawn, in Maine, Californy or anywhere and no one is around to see or smell you..... is there an odor ??
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Anyway, seriously speaking, if ya really wanna go GREEN, why not just recycle Congress ??
 

Johnny Best

Active Member
Wonder if Chinet was banned in Maine also? San Francisco, CA is a place where you can go and crap in the neighbor's area.
 

Johnny Best

Active Member
I think I saw where there was an app to report it when you saw or smelled it. Just think of how much water they are saving not using toilets until they come out and use water hoses to wash it away. So all that water Toad is saving is used for cleaning up crap in the streets of California. "One hand washes the other." Saw where Las Angles is just as bad.
 

TimToad

Active Member
You best not light a camp fire Tim, it can cause as much pollution as a camp fire.

Here, I googled this for you... PS, I didn't read any of this but you got the time.

https://www.thoughtco.com/do-campfires-pollute-1204109
https://www.wunderground.com/cat6/Smoke-Camp-Fire-Making-Sacramento-Most-Polluted-City-Earth
https://e360.yale.edu/digest/califo...have-emitted-a-years-worth-of-power-pollution

Ummm..... the "Camp Fire" last summer was the name given to the big fire up in the mountains above Sacramento. Considering how many people lost their lives, homes and businesses, I'm not sure how funny making a play on words of it is, but I usually consider the source when I see or hear attempts at humor in poor taste.

I guarantee you, I've NEVER gone bowling on a work day or bragged about how many hours I have between jobs. Feel free to keep making it about everything BUT the topic you started. The adults in the room will continue to respectfully explore the direction the thread has gone in without you.
 

Texas_Signmaker

Very Active Signmaker
I think I saw where there was an app to report it when you saw or smelled it. Just think of how much water they are saving not using toilets until they come out and use water hoses to wash it away. So all that water Toad is saving is used for cleaning up crap in the streets of California. "One hand washes the other." Saw where Las Angles is just as bad.

Remember, they are so far advanced that our simple minds can't comprehend their progressiveness.. or so they say. I think I will open my eyes and see the light.. are we allowed to use toilet paper when we crap outside or is that wasteful?
 

Texas_Signmaker

Very Active Signmaker
Ummm..... the "Camp Fire" last summer was the name given to the big fire up in the mountains above Sacramento. Considering how many people lost their lives, homes and businesses, I'm not sure how funny making a play on words of it is, but I usually consider the source when I see or hear attempts at humor in poor taste.

I guarantee you, I've NEVER gone bowling on a work day or bragged about how many hours I have between jobs. Feel free to keep making it about everything BUT the topic you started. The adults in the room will continue to respectfully explore the direction the thread has gone in without you.

My daughter was off school and having a fun day with her beats applying vinyl to ACM every day of the week.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Nope, use elephant ears. Just don't use poison ivy. And don't open your eyes, they will instantly burn.
 

Johnny Best

Active Member
Instead of throwing those corn cobs in your mulch bin, save them for your cleaning up Tex. Do it outside the bowling alley.
 

Texas_Signmaker

Very Active Signmaker
We're going to Pike's Peak in a few weeks to play in the snow...during the work week. I'll be sure to share my pictures with you Tim... You'll be "working"... which means you'll be here giving you're philosophical advise to people that don't want to hear it.

Next month we're going to the world of coca cola in Atlanta and they have 100 flavors to taste.. I'm going to get a new straw for each cup because I don't like mixing tastes.
 
Top