SignManiac
New Member
Screw this graphic arts stuff. I'm going to enroll in Trump University and get rich.
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Fine arts vs. Graphic arts majors
- Thread starter mark in tx
- Start date
nashvillesigns
Making America great, one sign at a time.
as a graphics arts major in school, i always had a eye in fine arts.
however, from a humor standpoint..
"the difference between the two might just come down to the type of leaf one smokes"
lol.
however, from a humor standpoint..
"the difference between the two might just come down to the type of leaf one smokes"
lol.
TyrantDesigner
Art! Hot and fresh.
Oddly enough ... my college experience you would be surprised at the answer. ... GD majors were the biggest potheads I could imagine ... sculpture and ceramics majors like myself never to rarely smoked anything (though ... drinking heavily was there, even during class ... oh i miss that) ... regular fine art majors when I was in college never smoked a damn thing ... still had a few potheads but not what you would think. I mean hell ... its the norm to make alcoholics not drug users in the fine arts ... i'm just glad cloves aren't that popular ... I swear at one point i wanted to start throwing punches when I smelled that garbage, it was as if they were signalling to everyone around them 'I'm a raging douche bag!' before you had to talk to them.
TammieH
New Member
I agree 100%
The trick would be to find someone who straddles the fence and is a bit of both, and if you can't find one, have a Graphic Artist and a Fine Artist work together so a little bit of their counterpart rubs off on them. Not only would you want to allow them to learn from each other you would want to encourage it. Because thinking creatively strengthens how a technical minded person approaches a problem, and thinking technically helps a creative person achieve better results. Having the mentality that one is superior to the other will get you nowhere fast.
I agree, a bit of both worlds....Balance!
Rick
Certified Enneadecagon Designer
Does the work that you show on your portfolio indicate the level of quality by
either a fine artist or graphic designer.
A person can have a degree in either one, but I see nothing that would indicate
either one is of benefit to you. Maybe you have not updated your site so that
may not be a clear indication of the work your company does. I would concentrate
on finding someone with a really good portfolio with sign experience and not
worry about what kind of degree they have.
Another thing, most "good" degreed designers/artist are not looking for sign shop
work. Sign shops are usually the bottom of the barrel in a designers career with
only a local coupon place, the Pennysaver and a chump print shop being worse.
And yet, here I am... a sign designer...
either a fine artist or graphic designer.
A person can have a degree in either one, but I see nothing that would indicate
either one is of benefit to you. Maybe you have not updated your site so that
may not be a clear indication of the work your company does. I would concentrate
on finding someone with a really good portfolio with sign experience and not
worry about what kind of degree they have.
Another thing, most "good" degreed designers/artist are not looking for sign shop
work. Sign shops are usually the bottom of the barrel in a designers career with
only a local coupon place, the Pennysaver and a chump print shop being worse.
And yet, here I am... a sign designer...
Just Sayin
You can have all the art degrees you want. When it comes to the sign business it requires a different mind set then art school teaches. Hand somebody a degree and you cant teach them anything beyond it because the think they know it all, after all they have a degree. I would much rather hire the kid that walks into my shop and asks if he can hang out and see how its all done. The right mind set and willingness to listen and learn trumps degrees every day in my shop.
You can have all the art degrees you want. When it comes to the sign business it requires a different mind set then art school teaches. Hand somebody a degree and you cant teach them anything beyond it because the think they know it all, after all they have a degree. I would much rather hire the kid that walks into my shop and asks if he can hang out and see how its all done. The right mind set and willingness to listen and learn trumps degrees every day in my shop.
Joe Crumley
New Member
These posts crack me up! I'm a product of higher education and taught on the college and University lever for years before opening up my sign company. As an Art Instructor I must report the difference between a Fine Arts Degree and Commercial Arts Degree is structure. I'm not going to parse these schools, in a paragraph, but the fine arts work is much looser and less structured. My only, major, complaint with both schools is the declining instruction in "Layout & Design". Without formal instructions on this topic every graduate struggles. To be excellent in this craft you gotta be loose. It is, in my view, more difficult for my commercial students to let themselves go, make lots of mistakes in order to learn. Why O Why does this forum not let us compose without paragraphs. That SUCKS.
bikecomedy
New Member
A mind-hand connection is needed for this work not a degree. Here's some help quoted from a book titled "How to Analyze People on Site" describing this person you are looking for,
"The Manual Worker
¶ Musculars are the hand-workers of the world. They are the artisans,
craftsmen, the constructors and builders.
We all tend to use most those organs or parts of the body which are
largest and most highly developed. The Muscular's hand is
proportionately larger than the hand of any other type. It has more
muscle, that one element without which good hand work is impossible.
So it has followed inevitably that the manual work of the world is done
largely by Musculars. Their hands are also so much more powerful that
they do not tire easily.
The Hand of the Creative Artist
¶ "The artist's hand" and "the artistic hand" are phrases long used but
misused. Delicate tapering fingers were supposed in ancient times to
denote artistic ability. The frail curving hand was also supposed to be
a sign of artistic talent.
From the stage of old down to the movies of today the typical artist is
pictured with a slight, slender hand.
This tapering-fingered hand denotes a keen sense of artistic values; a
love of the esthetic, refined and beautiful; and real artistic
_appreciation_, but _not_ the ability to create.
The "Hand Arts"
¶ Before we explain this, kindly understand that we are speaking only of
those arts which require hand work--and not of such arts as singing,
dancing, or musical composition which could more properly be called
artistic activities. We are referring only to those arts which depend
for their creation upon the human hand--such as painting, architecture,
craftsmanship, cartooning, sculpture, violin, piano, etc.
_All these are created by square fingered people._
We are too much inclined to think of the products of these arts as being
created out of sheer artistic sense, artistic taste or artistic insight.
But a moment's reflection will show that every tangible artistic
creation is the result of unusual hand work combined with gifted head
work. Without a sure, strong, well-knit hand the ideas of the greatest
artists could never have materialized. The lack of such a hand explains
why the esthetic, the artistic-minded and the connoisseur do not
_create_ the beautiful things they _appreciate_.
Head and Hand Partners
¶ The hand must execute what the brain plans and it must be so perfect a
mechanism for this that it responds to the most elusive inspirations of
the artist. It must be a fifty per cent partner, else its owner will
never produce real art.
No type has this strong, sure, co-ordinated hand-machine to any such
degree as the Muscular.
The finger ends, which are of the utmost significance in the creation of
artistic things, must be fitted with well developed muscles of extreme
efficiency or the execution will fall short of the ideal pictured in the
artist's mind.
The pure Muscular type seldom makes an artist, for, after all, inspired
brain work is the other important element in the creation of art, and
this is the forte of the fifth type. A combination of the fifth type
with the Muscular makes most hand artists. A combination of the Muscular
and Thoracic makes most singers. Every hand artist will be found to have
spatulate-fingered hands--in short, muscular hands.
The hand of the famous craftsman, pianist, sculptor and painter, instead
of being more frail and delicate, is always larger and heavier than that
of the average person. Such a hand is a certain indication of
muscular element in that individual's makeup.
The book goes into more detail of how to spot these people and other types plus combination types which is most prevalent.
Here's link to the book if you're interested in how to analyze people on site. http://www.perpustakaan.depkeu.go.id/FOLDEREBOOK/How to Analyze People on Sight.pdf
"The Manual Worker
¶ Musculars are the hand-workers of the world. They are the artisans,
craftsmen, the constructors and builders.
We all tend to use most those organs or parts of the body which are
largest and most highly developed. The Muscular's hand is
proportionately larger than the hand of any other type. It has more
muscle, that one element without which good hand work is impossible.
So it has followed inevitably that the manual work of the world is done
largely by Musculars. Their hands are also so much more powerful that
they do not tire easily.
The Hand of the Creative Artist
¶ "The artist's hand" and "the artistic hand" are phrases long used but
misused. Delicate tapering fingers were supposed in ancient times to
denote artistic ability. The frail curving hand was also supposed to be
a sign of artistic talent.
From the stage of old down to the movies of today the typical artist is
pictured with a slight, slender hand.
This tapering-fingered hand denotes a keen sense of artistic values; a
love of the esthetic, refined and beautiful; and real artistic
_appreciation_, but _not_ the ability to create.
The "Hand Arts"
¶ Before we explain this, kindly understand that we are speaking only of
those arts which require hand work--and not of such arts as singing,
dancing, or musical composition which could more properly be called
artistic activities. We are referring only to those arts which depend
for their creation upon the human hand--such as painting, architecture,
craftsmanship, cartooning, sculpture, violin, piano, etc.
_All these are created by square fingered people._
We are too much inclined to think of the products of these arts as being
created out of sheer artistic sense, artistic taste or artistic insight.
But a moment's reflection will show that every tangible artistic
creation is the result of unusual hand work combined with gifted head
work. Without a sure, strong, well-knit hand the ideas of the greatest
artists could never have materialized. The lack of such a hand explains
why the esthetic, the artistic-minded and the connoisseur do not
_create_ the beautiful things they _appreciate_.
Head and Hand Partners
¶ The hand must execute what the brain plans and it must be so perfect a
mechanism for this that it responds to the most elusive inspirations of
the artist. It must be a fifty per cent partner, else its owner will
never produce real art.
No type has this strong, sure, co-ordinated hand-machine to any such
degree as the Muscular.
The finger ends, which are of the utmost significance in the creation of
artistic things, must be fitted with well developed muscles of extreme
efficiency or the execution will fall short of the ideal pictured in the
artist's mind.
The pure Muscular type seldom makes an artist, for, after all, inspired
brain work is the other important element in the creation of art, and
this is the forte of the fifth type. A combination of the fifth type
with the Muscular makes most hand artists. A combination of the Muscular
and Thoracic makes most singers. Every hand artist will be found to have
spatulate-fingered hands--in short, muscular hands.
The hand of the famous craftsman, pianist, sculptor and painter, instead
of being more frail and delicate, is always larger and heavier than that
of the average person. Such a hand is a certain indication of
muscular element in that individual's makeup.
The book goes into more detail of how to spot these people and other types plus combination types which is most prevalent.
Here's link to the book if you're interested in how to analyze people on site. http://www.perpustakaan.depkeu.go.id/FOLDEREBOOK/How to Analyze People on Sight.pdf
Joe Crumley
New Member
Not worth a reply!
bikecomedy
New Member
Just for the sake of stating an opinion a Fine Art Student would be the better choice and of those I would see which ones had the mind-body connection needed for this work. But the intention of the OP was asking for advice in hiring and working with employees, not the actual difference between a Fine Artist and a Graphics Artist. It follows that knowing how to pick a person whom might do the job best was what the op was asking.
Joe Crumley you seem like a nice guy and trying to help. What exactly makes you say that my comment merits no response? If I could learn something here it wouldn't be the first day I've stuck my foot in my mouth or had to eat crow.
So please share your thoughts..?
Joe Crumley you seem like a nice guy and trying to help. What exactly makes you say that my comment merits no response? If I could learn something here it wouldn't be the first day I've stuck my foot in my mouth or had to eat crow.
So please share your thoughts..?
Joe Crumley
New Member
bikecomedy
New Member
A critic is a legless man who teaches other people to run”
― Channing Pollock
― Channing Pollock
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JAMEY
New Member
Ditto on that. I try to hold a balance. I adapt to the job. However, I find myself putting a lot of thought and time into some of the simplest stuff. If the job isn't paying much, then they don't get a whole lot of my time. Period.
We do a lot of wholesale printing for other shops in the area. So I see bad artwork all the time....grrrrr. Keeps us busy. It's the retail stuff I like.
I guess I get it from my pickyness and also from the great friend and designer who taught me a great deal and does have his masters in fine arts. I would go with the fine arts designer who who can also implement that graphic arts pop.
mark galoob
New Member
i have been doing printing for about 10 years now, and i have only seen a very small handful of peeps that call themselves graphic actually have any skill at design work. 99.999% of people that actually call themselves graphic designers couldnt design themselves out of a paper bag...the word worthless comes to mind.
MakeMyGraphic
New Member
You know just my 2 cents, all I hear are "labels"
Creativity is not something you LEARN, although you CAN learn layout and techniques. So a Fine Artist might also be Creative but at the same time NOT be computer savy.
Sometimes people hire Fine Artist type fellas to design a "Logo" or a "concept" but then they need a Graphic designer to turn those ideas into DIGITAL ARTWORK. And vice versus on a Graphic Artist since you might find someone with a degree but no actual "creative" skills.
I've had people submit their "awesome" logos in a PSD file only to find that the DPI or resolution is VERY poor, ask them to submit me a Vector image of their artwork and No can do. That's where people like US come in, having to re-create and vector existing "artwork" to get it print ready. Sooo I guess it depends on what you are trying to accomplish, are you looking for a Conceptual artist? Or someone with technical expertise? Those who have BOTH skills are harder to find and (if you happen to find one) if you were to personally ask them what they consider themselves (fine artists or graphic artists) you wouldn't hear exactly what you were expecting half of the time
hmm.. I hope this makes sense at least to someone other than me.
Creativity is not something you LEARN, although you CAN learn layout and techniques. So a Fine Artist might also be Creative but at the same time NOT be computer savy.
Sometimes people hire Fine Artist type fellas to design a "Logo" or a "concept" but then they need a Graphic designer to turn those ideas into DIGITAL ARTWORK. And vice versus on a Graphic Artist since you might find someone with a degree but no actual "creative" skills.
I've had people submit their "awesome" logos in a PSD file only to find that the DPI or resolution is VERY poor, ask them to submit me a Vector image of their artwork and No can do. That's where people like US come in, having to re-create and vector existing "artwork" to get it print ready. Sooo I guess it depends on what you are trying to accomplish, are you looking for a Conceptual artist? Or someone with technical expertise? Those who have BOTH skills are harder to find and (if you happen to find one) if you were to personally ask them what they consider themselves (fine artists or graphic artists) you wouldn't hear exactly what you were expecting half of the time
hmm.. I hope this makes sense at least to someone other than me.
OldPaint
New Member
i had my shop..........these kids would come in looking for work. 1st thing outa their mouths was they were GRAPHIC DESIGNERS))))) welll.at 17-20 year old, how much have you done????? i would hand them a a big yellow legal pad........and a #2 pencil ........OK.....DRAW ME SOMETHING))))) the typical response, like a deer in the headlights....."oh i cant DRAW........ but i do graphics on the computer!" RIGHTTTTTTTT....... so you can place "clip art" and fonts on the screen..so this makes you a "GRAPHIC DESIGNER?" next question was , CAN YOU READ A TAPE MEASURE??? CUT A STRAIGHT LINE ON A BOARD WITH A CIRCULAR SAW, JIG SAW????? so then my usual reply was after i got a couple no's on the questions............was CAN YOU WEED VINYL?))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
bob
It's better to have two hands than one glove.
Every year for the last hundred years, this year is the centennial, a local village puts on a festival in the fall. Every year, except last year, they hired me to create a logo for that year's festival. Each festival having a different theme. This 'logo' is used as the central panel in posters, t-shirts, print and tv ads, etc.
Last year the apparatus decided that they would save some money and have a contest for a logo. Their choice, I abstained. Out the the less than impressive number of entries an effort by a locally and mildly renown 'artist' was chosen. While this design might, in some circles, have qualified as art, as a logo for the above stated purposes it made awful look good. A kindergartener with finger paints could have produced a better panel. At least I assume it would qualify as art since the local dilettante population oohed and aahed endlessly over it.
Needless to say, this year they once more hired me to do their logo.
The point being is that there is no necessary connection between fine art and graphic art, which in the pre-computer era, was known as 'commercial art'. Being adept at one in no way implies any sort of competence at the other.
Last year the apparatus decided that they would save some money and have a contest for a logo. Their choice, I abstained. Out the the less than impressive number of entries an effort by a locally and mildly renown 'artist' was chosen. While this design might, in some circles, have qualified as art, as a logo for the above stated purposes it made awful look good. A kindergartener with finger paints could have produced a better panel. At least I assume it would qualify as art since the local dilettante population oohed and aahed endlessly over it.
Needless to say, this year they once more hired me to do their logo.
The point being is that there is no necessary connection between fine art and graphic art, which in the pre-computer era, was known as 'commercial art'. Being adept at one in no way implies any sort of competence at the other.