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Flatbed UV prints + Decals peeling the ink off

Discussion in 'Hewlett Packard' started by ikarasu, Mar 6, 2019.

  1. ikarasu

    ikarasu Very Active Member

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    So, we usually screen print all our real estate signs, then just flatbed the name / images on them. But all the major companies have changed their design to look.. prettier, and it makes screen printing a royal pain. so we've started to just flatbed the whole sign.

    Here lies the problem... The agents love to put "SOLD" stickers all over the signs.. then when they get around to removing the sign in a week or two... the UV ink peels off with the sticker.

    Our bulbs are just replaced... We use original HP ink, and we use coro designed for digital prints - I'm just wondering how do you guys get around the issue? Or is it an issue for you? I was thinking of trying different, more receptive coro... but we've tried 10+ before and settled on this one because it seems to adhere the best. I feel like it's a limitation of direct to coro printing... not really a media / ink issue.

    We do have adhesion promoters.. haven't tried to use it on coro yet, but I doubt it'd help. And with the slim proffit on real estate signs, and the fact we do hundreds a month... I can't imagine using promoter on that many items.

    Another idea was to use ultra removable vinyl... But that relies on the idea that they buy their decals from us... which probably isn't always the case.

    I guess my main question is does your inks peel off when applying stickers over top? Pretty sure it's not our material / inks, but before we look into other options figured I'd ask.
     
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  2. DerbyCitySignGuy

    DerbyCitySignGuy Very Active Member

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    Yes, UV ink peels off of coro in most cases. It's the nature of the beast. There are ways to increase your adhesion, but you'll probably never get it to 100%.

    If they want to preserve the direct printed coro, tell them to use riders or find another way to attach "sold" indicators.
     
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  3. brycesteiner

    brycesteiner Member

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    Does it do it if the sticker is a removable vinyl?
     
  4. DerbyCitySignGuy

    DerbyCitySignGuy Very Active Member

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    It can. It depends on a lot of factors, but in general, putting stickers on direct printed coro is a recipe for disaster.
     
  5. flyplainsdrifta

    flyplainsdrifta Active Member

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    Yeah i would say that becomes a one time use type of deal if you are using any sort of adhesive. ill do a test on my end to see what happens. but have you thought about a heavy duty hooknloop option with a smaller either diecut or straight cut piece of corro? ive done that for a couple clients and theyve been happy. makes them more reusable.
     
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  6. bannertime

    bannertime Very Active Member

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    If it was worth while, you could get a liquid laminator to run the signs through. One of our vendors does some liquid coating on their UV printed metal signs and it's pretty durable. Haven't been able to figure out what it is.
     
  7. DerbyCitySignGuy

    DerbyCitySignGuy Very Active Member

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    Probably Marabu liquid laminate. You can also roll it with a paint roller if you need to. It generally dries fairly smoothly and works on most substrates.
     
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  8. petepaz

    petepaz Major Contributor

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    maybe a liquid lam would help but probably not. uv inks don't really bite in the the material like solvant ink. uv just sits on top and is dried by the lights so a decal on top will pretty much always pull the ink off. when we screen coro signs we need to use a special ink that will bite to the coro and not come off easily.
    you could try using a fathead type decal(repositionable adhesive)
     
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  9. TimToad

    TimToad Very Active Member

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    We're a unique example because of still using a GERBER ION Solara printer which has a longer cure rate at a different UV wavelength, but our prints on coroplast can literally take scraping them with a fingernail and not leave a mark or flake off.

    We've used the Maribu Production Clear for items needing some extra protection, but as with anything else, putting a tough layer over a not so tough layer isn't really going to make something bulletproof.
     
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  10. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    While all these suggestions are good, but all a lotta extra trouble and time, plus supplies..... why not just be up front with your client and tell them..... times are changing, we're using different inks, different techniques and your requesting the cheapest substrate out there, other than paper. It can only be used as a temporary sign and not something to tape other products to, without some kinda problems. If you want to tape things to it, we'll hafta do your signs a different way which will be alright to tape to, if that's what you want. I'll prepare a cost for you, if you like.
     
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  11. ikarasu

    ikarasu Very Active Member

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    We do sell toppers / hangers also. I think they just got used to the durability of screen printing... so they just slap their decals anywhere. I printed something yesterday... Threw on some non removable, and some removable this morning... I didn't even let it sit for more than 30 seconds and certain colors / spots peeled off.

    Up until now everything was screen printed in bulk, and we just imprinted names / pictures, so we haven't run into the issue. I figured it was the coro... But wanted to make sure before explaining to the clients, and getting the sales reps to warn them about it.

    I was looking at this particular clients sales order too... The signs were ordered 7 months ago. so who knows how long the decals were sitting on them.

    I think the "Changeable" stuff 3M sells would work. But I've seen sold decals sitting at houses for 2+ months... I imagine at 2 months, even changeable ultra low tac will have issues.


    We also considered liquid lam. I'm not opposed to it... but I cant imagine liquid lamming 100+ signs double sided without a machine, and most machines seem to be for roll to roll, not rigid substrate. I haven't looked too much into it though, so there may be a machine... One more thing to research!

    I think we'll just change our order forms, no longer offer sold decals, or put a warning saying they're only for plywood/aluminum signs that we roll to roll with overlam.


    Kind of wonder if the new Latex flatbed works better when it comes to sticking! We're going to eventually buy one when all the kinks are worked out of it.
     
  12. ikarasu

    ikarasu Very Active Member

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    Yup, that's the plan. I figured it was just the nature of the beast, but wasn't sure if maybe our coro has been sitting there too long, or we got a bad batch / etc.

    We upsell to vinyl prints quite a bit... Some customers like how glossy / vibrant it is compared to UV. In our area houses sell for an average of 1+ Million... even condos / townhomes are 800k now. But god forbid they spend more than $20 on a sign to sell that million dollar house though :cool:
     
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  13. Bly

    Bly Very Active Member

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    Typical real estate agents. They want the cheapest possible option then complain about it's durability.
    I guess you could try and upsell them to anti graffiti laminate.
     
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  14. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    Don't forget, ya hafta post heat that stuff.........................


    Farting.jpg
     
  15. brycesteiner

    brycesteiner Member

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    That is the truth! I talked to a fellow who was selling a house. I showed him what I've done for photography/aerial video and the response was tremendously better than those that didn't. He said he liked the idea and wanted to do it.

    So I did the video/photography and then I asked the realtor if I should bill him or the home owner. He scoffed and said "bill him". I said ok and the home owner had said that would probably be the case. The realtor then said, "He wanted us to put ads in the local newspapers. If he wants it advertised then he's going to have to do it himself!"

    I was just blown away. The only thing I could think of was, "what exactly is your job if it's not to get the house sold for the owner?" He's going to collect the percentage on this half million dollar house and doesn't want to pay for a damn thing!

    He's going to list it with MLS and then fill out the sale agreement form. That's it. The bank and title company handle the real paperwork.

    In recent years I've lost trust in a lot of realtors. They used to have connections that others didn't have but nowadays the internet has changed all that.
     
  16. bannertime

    bannertime Very Active Member

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    See it all the time, and I typically say something along the lines of, "you're going to make $$$ off the sale, and will definitely help sell, so spending $ should be a no brainier. Even if it sells the property the next day, how is it not worth it?"
     
  17. ikarasu

    ikarasu Very Active Member

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    Some agents are stingy... Some aren't. I notice it's usually the new ones who buy cheap stuff... ones with no clientele, so they dont want to spend money.

    I have a few family members in real estate... They make a killing in this market, But they dont cheap out either. We also have some clients who purchase 10-20 4x8 Aluminum signs, printed on diamond grade all at once... And tell us they've gotten such great response from how bright and nice they look. Theyre the same people we see with bus advertisements on every corner... I think the more experienced ones understand that 90% Of selling a house is in advertising it... But the new ones who are just starting out scoff at high prices, and struggle to make ends meat. Real estate turn over is really high here, and I think all the new agents tend to give all the long-term ones a bad name.

    Anyways, we'll just use it as an opportunity to upsell. We view coro as a temp / low use sign... It's good to go in A-frames / other frames, or use it as a throwaway sign that needs to be up for a week. When we got a picture of the customers sign... She was hanging it from a wooden post... No grommets or nothing in it, looks like she just jabbed a hole into it and started to hang it... During winter/windy season. We always recommend Alupanel for hanging signs... But even if they dont want it, we'll easily grommet it for them for extra strength. We always try to educate them on what signs are good for what, and how to get the best use out of their signs... Some people just don't want to listen though. We'll re-do the sign for her for free, or offer a small fee to put it on vinyl/overlam, and let her know they're not suitable for decals without the overlam... and I bet within a month she sends another E-mail asking for a new sign;)
     
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  18. brycesteiner

    brycesteiner Member

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    I did a "For Sale by Owner" video/photos of a low value house and I was amazed that within just a couple hours of the pics and video going online they had five people lined up to see it and with offers. They had tried selling it before but they could not get the right people. Either people couldn't get the loans or considered a bad part of town. After the pictures and aerial's came out it completely changed what people thought of it.
    This realtor is actually one who had been in the business for a long time and figured that he doesn't need to spend for advertising promotion anymore since the internet.
    IMO it's completely backwards. What company does not need to invest for a return?
     
  19. equippaint

    equippaint Very Active Member

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    So they sell a house and make 10% give or take, Id guess at 20-50k commission and youre racking your brain so they can reuse a $10 sign to make another 20-50k?
    You said low margins already on coro, honestly whats the point? Just straight up tell them its the nature of the beast. Theres not much worse than cheap people complaining about cheap stuff.
     
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  20. Bly

    Bly Very Active Member

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    Like any business realty seems easy when you know nothing about it.
    I'm sure they don't sell a 500k house every day and they have huge overheads.
     
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