Surprise! Your Flexi No longer works. The one I paid good money for. 4 copies in fact. Called Flexi and they said, " Their server for the Flexi 10 Pro had went down and they don't want to order parts to fix it." So We have to upgrade flexi for $1,050.00 ea. Which feels like I'm being forced to spend more money. So at this point I rather shop around and see who their competitors are and maybe get a better deal if I have to shell out a grand anyway. Any thoughts?
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Flexi 10-10.5 Pro Discontinued
- Thread starter cwb143
- Start date
Christian @ 2CT Media
Active Member
You are not going to get another competitive product for $1,000 or even close unless you go to signlab which may or may not work for you and your needs. A Good RIP only starts at around $2,500 but has no design tools and leaves a lot to be desired in the vinyl cutting realm.
WildWestDesigns
Active Member
If a program require activation, there is usually a server that they look up for said activation. If the software can't find it, it won't activate.
Have to remember when running legacy software, there is no promises that you'll get support in any manner. Only thing that we could hope for is that they do something like Adobe did with CS2. And Adobe may not even do that for future versions given what happened (or they make it a little harder to get access to the activation less version after they retire the server).
This is a risk with any proprietary licensed software. Just consider it the cost of doing business if you go to one of these software vendors.
WildWestDesigns
Active Member
There is usually something that is sacrificed in the cracked versions. It may be a functionality that you specifically may not miss (as in you don't use it, may not even know that it exists), but typically something is lost. Especially if they have gone from binary to source back to binary.
I firmly believe that if someone makes a product that has usefulness, they should be compensated. If they are asking too much, the market will eventually bare that out. Even though some of the software that I use, the full version goes for $15k, the vendor has been around since 1979, so that says something there.
Now, if one is running cracked software, I have far less sympathy of that same person complaining that a customer took their draft and had work performed somewhere else. To me, that shows the same mentality of getting a cracked program. I'm not thinking of anyone specifically, just sayin' that I have far less sympathy.
The concern there is that once the dongle goes bad, gets damaged then what? Not any different then the server issue. Just a different type of control. It may last longer then a server, but it still has a finite life span.
Of course, running legacy software, eventually even if the software is still good to go (or dongle), there may be other problems. The latest version of Windows (or whatever PC OS we might be talking about) might do an update that deprecates and removes some system function that is needed by said program. Then one either has to virtualize (even then there might be hardware changes for the host computer that means running adapters to use older hardware (like PCM plugs, serial port plugs and eventually traditional USB plugs or even no optical drives and the original software is still only on CD/DVDs)) or keep older hardware around running the legacy OS as well to support the legacy program (which has it's own set of concerns).
Until some fundamental changes happen within the closed source software world, this will always be a concern. One of the main reasons that I'm trying to do more in open source and that too has it's own issues and it lags behind commercial software in some ways. Now, I'm not doing open source, because people think it's free (I know some open source programs that if you want the pre-compiled binary you have to pay, if you want it free either have to get an OS that already has it installed or build it from source, which is not fun even on Linux, but definitely building it for Win or Mac is more of a headache if one isn't used to it), but because it does give us more control with our software. That's what the free is all about, not necessarily always the cost. Bare in mind, if that commercial software is more efficient, I'm going to use that versus the open source version, due to that efficiency (however, only in a VM as I actually do run really old software, some of it is DOS only). However, the gap is getting smaller and smaller.
Techman
New Member
Signlab 9 print and cut full version or whatever version it is now is 750 bucks.. with cross grade upgrade. I used corel draw for the cross grade.
This server fail is exactly why I refuse to be involved with subscription software. It has always been something I ranted about forever.
This server fail is exactly why I refuse to be involved with subscription software. It has always been something I ranted about forever.
WildWestDesigns
Active Member
The irony here is that this is more then likely an activation server failure. Which would lend itself more to a perpetual licensed version of the software. The cost that the OP mentions would lend itself to that. Any software that has to be activated, doesn't matter if it's even perpetual licensed or not, could face this issue at any time. Especially legacy software.
It doesn't matter what license you do (perpetual or subscription) the issues are still the same. Dongle software is a little bit better, but that can still fail, get damage, stolen whatever and there is no promise that you'll still be able to get a replacement. I know some companies that won't do support one generation back from the current one and they cost a lot more then Flexi does.
I'm no lover of subscription software at all, but this type of issue not just for subscription software. Any software that requires to search for anything online that say says it's good to run has the potential of this happening. Even if it's just a one time search.
Yeah, a discount beats full price But what is the guarantee this won't happen again? Probably no guarantee. I have a version with the dongle and it still works but it's on a different computer. A cloud version needs to come with lifetime support if you're going to run on the cloud. I mean If I bought software like Adobe Photoshop just about any version will still run. These are shady business practices by Flexi.
I prefer the old way: one license fee, one-time activation, monolithic updates instead of the daily make-or-break update cycles of today.
Adobe’s cloud scheme tries to give the consumer something by opening up all their software and services. It if they go out of business or lose interest in a given product, the customer is screwed. Maybe Adobe is approaching this the right way. The trend with other software vendors is to charge the full one-time fee and then hit you with recurring subscription fees.
Adobe’s cloud scheme tries to give the consumer something by opening up all their software and services. It if they go out of business or lose interest in a given product, the customer is screwed. Maybe Adobe is approaching this the right way. The trend with other software vendors is to charge the full one-time fee and then hit you with recurring subscription fees.
WildWestDesigns
Active Member
That only works if you are able to use that same computer with that same activation forever. Once you have to try to install that legacy software on another computer, that's where it can bite you.
Activation is just as bad as subscription if it requires an active internet connection to activate.
For instance, I can still use Photo Deluxe (pre cursor to Ps Elements), but Ps Elements and CS-current requires an internet connection.
Anything from about 2001 to current is when online activation really started to be mainstream (when XP and it's activation policy hit) is where this issue can manifest. Just the way it is with closed source, proprietary licensed software. Of course, this is assuming that one does things on the up and up. I'm sure there are hacks for just about anything.
I agree with this, especially in a production environment, however, how many here keep their production rigs online?
An "always connected" device may do well in consumer space, but in production, it's no bueno and no matter how many people complain about updates and how they always seem to screw something up, they still have their production rigs connected to outside connection.
visual800
Active Member
several years ago I had a dongle go bad on flexi. Signwarehouse would not send another one to replace without charging a huge amount. SAI would not help because I bought it from signwarehouse.
What did I do? Downloaded a cracked version and ran it for a few years. Of course I dont run cracked now but I really didnt see where it "lacked" anything thing being cracked. Was it wrong to do this? Sure. But damn, stand behind what you sell.
No sense in all this greed. I actually offered to send them the damaged dongle back they acted like I was trying to pull one over on them I just wanted a damn replacement and the dongle went bad within 2 year period. I am running version 10 now but so far so good. If this dongle dies Ill hop on ebay or amazon and see if I can grab another I refuse to go to the cloud
What did I do? Downloaded a cracked version and ran it for a few years. Of course I dont run cracked now but I really didnt see where it "lacked" anything thing being cracked. Was it wrong to do this? Sure. But damn, stand behind what you sell.
No sense in all this greed. I actually offered to send them the damaged dongle back they acted like I was trying to pull one over on them I just wanted a damn replacement and the dongle went bad within 2 year period. I am running version 10 now but so far so good. If this dongle dies Ill hop on ebay or amazon and see if I can grab another I refuse to go to the cloud
WildWestDesigns
Active Member
It depends on what you use. I can't speak for Flexi as I don't use it, but take embroidery digitizing software. Something that tends to be "broken" on cracked copies of some of the more expensive programs is "send pattern to machine". Direct interface to the embroidery machine in other words. No need for jump drives, CF/SD cards etc.
I don't use that functionality, so I would never miss it.
It's that kind of thing. For some, it may seem complete, for others, it may lack functionality.
I can somewhat understand why SAi didn't do it when you bought from a vendor. I don't agree with it, but I can understand it.
I don't know of any software vendor that won't charge for a replacement dongle. For my digitizing software, it's $400 last time I checked on that's on an already very expensive software (much more then even Flexi last time I looked). And that's even if it's the current version. I use a lot of digitizing software, all but one (the one that interfaces with Inkscape) require a dongle, so for me it was worth it to get insurance (and luckily my carrier knows what I was talking about, so insurance is not that expensive on it).
Now, my question would be, was this current software or was it at least 1 generation back making it legacy software? 1 generation back, may give you room to scratch and burp, but any further then that, should actually be lucky that signwarehouse was even willing to replace the dongle at all.
Make no mistake, I don't actually agree with these practices, but until things catch up with the tech and licenses are re-written, this is just the cost of doing business using closed source proprietary software. Doesn't matter if it's perpetual license or subscription based. Heaven forbid when programs become web based for production purposes (and for some things it's heading that way).
FactorDesign
New Member
I would escalate the issue and see if you can get a much better discount. You are not at fault for running an older version of their software, especially since some newer versions have reliability issues that the older versions did not.
I would give them 3 options:
1.) Provide you with a way to unlock and run your current software at no charge
2.) Give a MUCH bigger discount to upgrade to the current version. Essentially offer to pay the cost of the dongle for the current version (Can't be more than $200?). It should be up to them to eat the rest of the cost since they can't be bothered to file an insurance claim to replace their old server and have the data recovered.
3.) They give you a zero cost subscription to flexi cloud for 1-2 years.
If they won't do either of these, I would consider finding an activation crack for your current version that just disables the check for Sentinel Security or whatever they were using for that specific generation. You own the software and should be able to use it without being forced to upgrade.
I would give them 3 options:
1.) Provide you with a way to unlock and run your current software at no charge
2.) Give a MUCH bigger discount to upgrade to the current version. Essentially offer to pay the cost of the dongle for the current version (Can't be more than $200?). It should be up to them to eat the rest of the cost since they can't be bothered to file an insurance claim to replace their old server and have the data recovered.
3.) They give you a zero cost subscription to flexi cloud for 1-2 years.
If they won't do either of these, I would consider finding an activation crack for your current version that just disables the check for Sentinel Security or whatever they were using for that specific generation. You own the software and should be able to use it without being forced to upgrade.
chester215
Just call me Chester.
There is a big difference between using an unsupported older version of the program and not being able to use it at all.
I think it is amazing that they think they could get away with screwing those that still use the older versions and not think there will be some kind of backlash.
I would never consider using a cracked version of a program, but now if this happened to me I would be searching for a cracked version to replace my old one.
Shame on you SAI. I hope your sales people never call me.
I think it is amazing that they think they could get away with screwing those that still use the older versions and not think there will be some kind of backlash.
I would never consider using a cracked version of a program, but now if this happened to me I would be searching for a cracked version to replace my old one.
Shame on you SAI. I hope your sales people never call me.
WildWestDesigns
Active Member
There is no transfer of ownership on the software. It's all licensed (even open source is licensed) and closed source proprietary software is not the most permissive of licensing models out there.
Just exactly how far back should software vendors still support their software so people can use it and even use it on modern software/hardware? There is going to be a pressure to upgrade at some point and not all of them come from the specific software vendor. Might come from other software vendors or hardware vendors that the software in question is going to rely on.
A fail to understand, how people can not figure on the risks here. If a program requires activation (it may allow for deactivation, it may not) and only allows for a certain amount and you are aware of it up front either in the EULA (regardless if you read it or not, but had the ability to) or being told otherwise, once that allotment is filled up, that's it. They are under no obligation to give you another "seat", regardless of what happens. Even if one got locked because you were unable to deactivate it for whatever reason.
If it's dongled software, I would expect to have to pay for a replacement unless it stopped working (not damaged, not stolen) within a month or 2. If it's 1 generation back, I personally would like to see them still support at least getting a replacement dongle, maybe a higher charge then current, but certainly still get a replacement. 2 generations and further, SOL. Pure and simple.
That same schema may apply to the above activation scenario as well when it comes to keeping servers up and running on those legacy applications. I personally would expect one generation back still having upkeep and keeping it going, but once you get further back, you run a risk. You can either do well or you may not. To me, Adobe was under no obligation to offer CS2 without the need for activation when they were turning off their servers. In fact, due to what happened, I would speculate that they may not do it again or may place more rules on it.
I don't see how anyone can think that they "own" the software with those types of checks in place.