Flexi v12 on Windows 10 -Subscription vs. Buy?

[Techman]

This fear of having software "out of date fear" is nothing more than marketing anxiety created by the software authors. Very few of us would ever need an update to an already fine running system. In fact most updates merely change around the interface a little. Is possessing the latest and greatest really needed and helpful? Is it a genuine concern? An update is only needed when the author fixes some error in their code. After all those the errors should be long gone..

Who needs an update once the printer is running great with good profiles and a computer that is great?

No one does. In fact my old encad printer on an old XP machine still performs just as it did 13 years ago. It is still perfectly fine for about 95% of the needs. So there you have it. A real world example of not ever needing an update.

 

[altereddezignz]

Version 11 was not $7-$8 grand, and upgrades are usually only a few hundred. Flexi is such a crappy design program.., the screen view looks like something out of 1990.

Please read my earlier post. This was buying V11 then upgrading to v12 when it was released. 4995 for v11 then 2995 for v12 if you already had v11 installed.

 

[altereddezignz]

This fear of having software "out of date fear" is nothing more than marketing anxiety created by the software authors. Very few of us would ever need an update to an already fine running system. In fact most updates merely change around the interface a little. Is possessing the latest and greatest really needed and helpful? Is it a genuine concern? An update is only needed when the author fixes some error in their code. After all those the errors should be long gone..

Who needs an update once the printer is running great with good profiles and a computer that is great?

No one does. In fact my old encad printer on an old XP machine still performs just as it did 13 years ago. It is still perfectly fine for about 95% of the needs. So there you have it. A real world example of not ever needing an update.

Yes sometime sit works like this and sometimes it does not. I like to stay up to day with software and stay up to date in my work environment. New quicker printers, better software and so on. Now am i saying that you MUST do this no i am not. I am giving my opinion and stating what i do that way he can go off reference but to tell someone "Here is your real world experience" well it doesn't work like that. Yes the statement is true for you but not the next person and so on.

I don't think the poster started this for people to argue over it lol.. But you really cant say no one needs an upgraded software. Now i will agree 100% that some of the upgrades are a hoax and are not worth the money but i cannot say this about all of them. As the business progress's the workflow along with the time spent on things also must progress.. This is how things happen.

Do you keep a 1910 model car in your garage to drive daily. I am going to guess no probably but you do drive a more modern reliable car correct. You have probably bought a couple cars in your life either from just want or b/c the next one was better.

 

[TomK]

Of course you have to call them and ask for the deal. It comes with some free goodies as well.
They have all the drivers needed for every thing excvept old stuff.. But, call them and make a deal. See if they have the profiles.

HP 300 series are not supported by Signlab yet, their goal is to support them in mid-2016 when version 10 is shipped.

Direct from them today.

Tom

 

[altereddezignz]

HP 300 series are not supported by Signlab yet, their goal is to support them in mid-2016 when version 10 is shipped.

Direct from them today.

Tom

Version 10?

 

[TomK]

Version 10?

Version 10, mid 2016.

 

[player]

Please read my earlier post. This was buying V11 then upgrading to v12 when it was released. 4995 for v11 then 2995 for v12 if you already had v11 installed.

That's where they are screwing everybody... The upgrades shouldn't be $3K, most of the time upgrades are only a few hundred bucks. Flexi is just not worth the money they are charging. Either they kill you on the purchase price or they have you paying forever. Within one second of you either not paying your subscription fee or they go out of business all your files and work history disappears.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

That's where they are screwing everybody... The upgrades shouldn't be $3K, most of the time upgrades are only a few hundred bucks. Flexi is just not worth the money they are charging. Either they kill you on the purchase price or they have you paying forever. Within one second of you either not paying your subscription fee or they go out of business all your files and work history disappears.

Any time you have specialized software, they tend to be really high in price. Full version of my software retails for $15k, upgrade for 1 generation is around $1,400 now. It used to be $1k. This is assuming that you don't play any of the trade up upgrade games to begin with for the initial price.

I do not believe that it's one second after you stop payment that they instantaneously cut you off. I can see a day or two, but not that quickly.

I'm also surprised that people aren't saving in a non proprietary format either, something that they can use in another program. Rather files leave my shop or not, I do have a file format of a job that can quickly be used in another program if need be.

Even if you keep the last perpetual license version of a program, "you" can have a hard time getting it to run in other ways eventually.

 

[SightLine]

Please read my earlier post. This was buying V11 then upgrading to v12 when it was released. 4995 for v11 then 2995 for v12 if you already had v11 installed.

That upgrade price is still way off. Single version upgrades of a perpetual license of Pro has for as long as I can remember always been $795 for the prior version to the current version. If you are two versions behind then it goes up.

Here is the MSRP price sheet for Flexi 12 from SAI www.thinksai.com/Objects/Documents/Flexi NA.pdf

and here is the price list for Flexi 11 (Cloud)

https://www.signwarehouse.com/software/flexi/13PriceLists_NA_Q4.pdf

Full MSRP retail to have bought version 11 would have been $4295, then upgrading to 12 when it came out would have been $795. Of course no one pays MSRP right??? I mean, I know we never have.


As far as some touting the benefit of always having the latest and greatest updates as soon as they are available there can also be some arguments against that. Over the years, many, many times I remember some new update to Windows, Flexi, Adobe products, etc that have some major issue and has to be rolled back while the maker hurries to fix the problem. By waiting even just a couple of weeks to install updates you stay running and let others be the ones who determine if some new update is fine or might cause major problems. I most recently remember a big Windows update that caused major font problems for everyone that had Automatic Updates on.

Also with the perpetual licenses you do still get some updates and you can still download new profiles from SAI. Of course stock profiles are optimized for some other machine in some other average environment which are okay and will work are only ever going to be mediocre at best since every machine is slightly different and the environment a machines is used in also plays a major role in its output and profiles. Of course spending the money for an i1 and learning to properly create all your own profiles is a whole different topic. With the perpetual licenses though, while you do still get some major updates you do not get every new little update or feature so you do miss out on some things. For example on 11 SAI introduced a couple of new features that show up on Production Manager like the Finishing (Banners & Grommets) feature. That was free for subscription users, perpetual license users who wanted that had to pay $395 which I personally feel was an underhanded rip off and it did leave a bit of a bad taste in my mouth. I also look at it as a perpetual license user gives them a big chunk of money right now all at once which they can immediately use, invest, get interest on, etc and as such a perpetual license user should be given the same features of the products while a subscription user might drop at any time cutting their revenue. A perpetual license guarantees their revenue for the version bought since they get it all at once right up front.

Regardless. If they do a major version upgrade every two years as an example then just using MSRP and annual commitment prices the subscription is far less expensive only costing $1198.80 for 24 months versus $3295.00 for the perpetual license. The main benefit to the perpetual is in 5 years you can still reinstall it, open all your files, and be 100% fully functional. With the subscription once you stop paying, after a month you are dead in the water, cannot open your FS files, nor use the software, period.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

The main benefit to the perpetual is in 5 years you can still reinstall it, open all your files, and be 100% fully functional.

This can be an iffy point depending on other factors involved.


If you are out of date on one thing, you have to make sure that everything else still plays nicely. In 5 yrs, if there is a Win 11 (or whatever, but considering Win 10 has an EOL, there is going to be another OS version at some point), some software may not load correctly. If you get new hardware in 5 yrs, your Win 7 may not install directly on to said hardware.

You just have to be careful on how you go about doing things.

Regardless. If they do a major version upgrade every two years as an example then just using MSRP and annual commitment prices the subscription is far less expensive only costing $1198.80 for 24 months versus $3295.00 for the perpetual license

You have to look beyond 1 or 2 generations (depending on how quick of a lifespan they have) in order to see how it works. At least for me, but I've always been more of a "long term" investor and don't forget, that you have the cheaper perpetual upgrade cost for the next version, while subscription is static throughout (or at least you assume static for both).

 

[SightLine]

Good points Evan.... Yes to still run it in 5 years to be safe you might also want to keep a 5 year old computer to run it on and you are still betting that SAI's activation system will still work for the old version. If you cant activate it then its a moot point regardless. I also try to look at the long term and truly prefer a perpetual license. I just despise yet another monthly bill..... a perpetual license is a lot of pain all at once and then you forget about the pain for a couple of years. A subscription is perpetual monthly pain. Historically I have upgraded our Adobe Suites and Flexi every couple of years (maybe 6 months to a year after a new version gets released) and that is expensive for 3 Adobe Design Premium licenses plus a Flexi Pro and a Flexi Designer license. Does make tax stuff easier though - two charges. On a sub for that same two and half years there would be dozens of monthly charges to account for. Monthly bills just feel like slowly bleeding to me.

In the long run though SAAS is the future and its going to be unavoidable at some point since we will get so far behind that subscribing monthly will be the only choice to remain compatible.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Good points Evan.... Yes to still run it in 5 years to be safe you might also want to keep a 5 year old computer to run it on

I went the VM route that way I could still stay current with hardware. Linux as a host though, not your traditional Win or Mac host. Not going with Win unless it becomes absolutely necessary. I don't like security holes already built into an OS.

and you are still betting that SAI's activation system will still work for the old version. If you cant activate it then its a moot point regardless.

I don't use Flexi, so forgive my ignorance, but I thought they used a security device? I know my digitizing software does, which makes staying with a VM much easier. Although if they went subscription, I probably would go that route for them. Adobe, I can afford to stay behind the times for a good long while as I typically don't get Adobe files anyway, but I can always stay current with Inkscape and that will help with some of the Ai files anyway.

I also try to look at the long term and truly prefer a perpetual license. I just despise yet another monthly bill..... a perpetual license is a lot of pain all at once and then you forget about the pain for a couple of years. A subscription is perpetual monthly pain. Historically I have upgraded our Adobe Suites and Flexi every couple of years (maybe 6 months to a year after a new version gets released) and that is expensive for 3 Adobe Design Premium licenses plus a Flexi Pro and a Flexi Designer license.

When I was pricing out Adobe when they had a choice of both, in 7 yrs, you'll be paying more for Design Premium going the subscription route then buying outright and that was staying up to date with the perpetual license as well.

Over the long haul, subscription costs us more period. It may take 7 yrs, it may take 20 (for the Master Suite) and at that point, you might go what's the point in worry about 20 yrs time for some of us. For those that just need Design Standard, it was 5 yrs (makes one wonder why Adobe only forecast costs for 3 yrs when trying to sell their subscription plan initially when they offered both).

In the long run though SAAS is the future and its going to be unavoidable at some point since we will get so far behind that subscribing monthly will be the only choice to remain compatible.

Unfortunately, I do believe you are right. Thankfully, at least with Adobe stuff I can keep going until they shut off their servers and then I have open source alternatives that fit my needs (don't confuse those Open Source with free software, while that is generally the case, the only thing that you really get with Open Source is the source code to modify, you can be charged from the program). Digitizing software, will be different. I hope that they don't do it, but I do believe the writing is on the wall for closed source programs and subscriptions. Especially when the maturity level of said programs has reached a certain point.

 

[player]

As far as saving in another format goes, you have no fonts, everything is converted to curves. Most sign changes are font related so that sucks.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

As far as saving in another format goes, you have no fonts, everything is converted to curves. Most sign changes are font related so that sucks.

I'm sorry, I don't think I explained it well enough.

I wasn't talking about not keeping a master file that is your proprietary file format that is there to do edits quickly, but also having something that is more universally recognized as well. You create a new version, create a new "backup" (if you will).

However, even if you don't, in your situation is not all doom and gloom (depending on how your current software reads the "backup"). If you use layers efficiently (and your new program maintains that layer hierarchy), just hide the previous text layer and type out the new copy and re save. If it doesn't maintain layer hierarchy (or you don't use layers efficiently, might take more work to dissect everything, but still doable).



Overall, it does take more work to do it this way versus just using those "master" files exclusively, but if something happens to where you can't use them at all, better to have something that you don't have to start all the way from scratch.

 

[player]

I'm sorry, I don't think I explained it well enough.

I wasn't talking about not keeping a master file that is your proprietary file format that is there to do edits quickly, but also having something that is more universally recognized as well. You create a new version, create a new "backup" (if you will).

However, even if you don't, in your situation is not all doom and gloom (depending on how your current software reads the "backup"). If you use layers efficiently (and your new program maintains that layer hierarchy), just hide the previous text layer and type out the new copy and re save. If it doesn't maintain layer hierarchy (or you don't use layers efficiently, might take more work to dissect everything, but still doable).



Overall, it does take more work to do it this way versus just using those "master" files exclusively, but if something happens to where you can't use them at all, better to have something that you don't have to start all the way from scratch.

But you won't even know what the font names are...

So now to protect yourself from failure, convert the file to a universal type, but first list all the font names, then export as PDF or eps...?

 

[WildWestDesigns]

But you won't even know what the font names are...

So now to protect yourself from failure, convert the file to a universal type, but first list all the font names, then export as PDF or eps...?

Well, if you are changing the font from Font A to Font B, knowing what the original font is moot.

If you are changing the layout of the font, but keeping the same font, just label the layer to the name of the font when the master has been finalized.

I've actually had a layer that was nothing but notes that I would just hide when not needed. If it was actually going out to someone else, I would make sure that layer was deleted in their copy.

 

[Dennis422]

We use Flexi and Design station on Windows 10 without problems, including the RIP functionality for our HP Latex printer.

We also buy it via the monthly subscription with a year commit, which saves you $10 a month off of each version, and they only charge you per month, not all up front.

Just wanted to ask if Flexi work fine on Windcrap 10.
Glad I saw this because I have subscription and run an HP L25500 printer with it.
Thanks