Welcome To Signs101.com: Largest Forum for Signmaking Professionals

Signs101.com: Largest Forum for Signmaking Professionals is the LARGEST online community & discussion forum for professional sign-makers and graphic designers.

 


  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

For Those Still on Win 7...

Discussion in 'General Software' started by WildWestDesigns, Jul 12, 2019.

  1. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

    5,864
    228
    63
    Sep 27, 2010
    Mid TN
    ...and connected to the internet and still getting updates, may want to give this a read.
     
    Tags:
  2. Gene@mpls

    Gene@mpls Premium Subscriber

    1,958
    76
    48
    Jun 17, 2003
    Blaine, Mn
    Maybe if they know how many people hate Win 8 and 10 and are sticking with Win 7 they will develop an alternative for non casual users?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

    5,864
    228
    63
    Sep 27, 2010
    Mid TN
    That would be the enterprise version of Win 10. Of course, for lowly peons like us that don't qualify for volume licensing (or have access to those that do), the quickest legit way would be to get it via subscription. Yes, the OS would be a subscription (which has been an option for Enterprise users for some time now with Win 10 and Office 365 bundles).

    I didn't actually have a problem with 8.1 or Win 10, its this ancillary "stuff" that has no business in an OS that sucks.
     
  4. E Coloney

    E Coloney Member

    57
    6
    8
    Dec 14, 2014
    USA
    I'm using a dedicated machine hard-wired to my XC-540 and haven't updated it in over a year. It's not broken and I don't need to fix it. Hope to retire and shut down before computer fails.
     
  5. Bly

    Bly Very Active Member

    2,766
    273
    83
    Mar 9, 2004
    Sydney
    I prefer Windows 3.1 myself.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

    5,864
    228
    63
    Sep 27, 2010
    Mid TN
    Good ole sarcasm.

    Even I don't go that old. Win 98 is about as old as I'll go and that's in a VM. While I do still have old hardware (even a working Win 95 laptop), I still prefer newer hardware to run everything.

    No WAN access, should be good to go as long as nothing changes with that equation.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Bly

    Bly Very Active Member

    2,766
    273
    83
    Mar 9, 2004
    Sydney
    And wear a tinfoil hat..
     
  8. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

    5,864
    228
    63
    Sep 27, 2010
    Mid TN
    A little bit, but just because one is paranoid doesn't mean that it's wrong.

    I do tend to have a problem with the thinking of "I don't do anything wrong, so I don't care if they collect anything on me". While may be true, not necessarily the point. I'm not saying that you said that, but that's the most often used reply that I get. I do find it strange that those that say that, tend to also not run the full monty telemetry collection setting.

    The odd thing is that for most of my life, I've been a fan of MSs OSs (and I actually could get past some of their security issues (for me there are 3 that I have a concern with and none of them have to deal with the size of MSs market share) over the years). From when I was a little kid using MS-DOS (wasn't aware of Xenix) to Win 8.1 (wasn't much of a fan of Win 2k thru XP though). Win 10 is just too much and it's not even the OS itself, it's the ancillary stuff that surrounds the OS that's more of a concern to me. It's the option of not having a built-in way to shut off some of this things (shouldn't have to use 3rd party scripts/programs to do this, there should be an easily discoverable built in way to do it in the OS itself) that gets me. Otherwise, I actually do like Win 10.
     
  9. player

    player Major Contributor

    4,597
    111
    63
    Apr 24, 2006
    Toronto
    Which update should I remove to stop Microsoft crackware?
     
  10. ddarlak

    ddarlak Trump Hater

    3.1 was great, i"m sure if i had to use it now i'd last 34 seconds before taking a hammer to the tower, but back in the day it rocked
     
  11. Bly

    Bly Very Active Member

    2,766
    273
    83
    Mar 9, 2004
    Sydney
    I guess. When it wasn't crashing or throwing you back to DOS to solve some mysterious error.
    Windows 10 rocks. Keep it updated.
     
  12. Texas_Signmaker

    Texas_Signmaker Very Active Signmaker

    3,050
    1,138
    113
    Oct 21, 2016
    Frisco, TX
    My windows 3.1 tower had a "Turbo" button on it. Bumped it up from 100MHz up to 133MHz.

    I duno how I spent all that wasted time listening it's hard drive seek while it loads Paint... sure couldn't pull out my phone and read some S101 posts to kill the time.
     
  13. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

    5,864
    228
    63
    Sep 27, 2010
    Mid TN
    Everybody's experience is different.

    Updates, no matter the OS, bring instability (High Sierra had it's troubled beginnings when it's initial stable release was sent out). It's inherent in their very nature. No way around it. Yes, in some instances they fix things, in some ways the break things. Keep in mind, to my knowledge, MS doesn't have an in house team to beta test these updates, they are totally dependent on the insider program (and that has proven to be problematic). For those that use network storage, 1809 had some issues with some hardware, I don't think that it has been solved either. This would have been a show stopper for me if my hardware was one of the affected hardware.

    Win 10 issues that I've had to deal with on just 1 computer (dad's) alone:

    Failed bootup

    Deactivation of the Win 10 licensing and MS Office 2016 licensing (this is MS's own branded products)

    Random removal of programs with the notification of there was compatibility issues detected (really? just remove it without the user being able to troubleshoot first (imagine if this was a mission critical piece of software that had activation concerns (which he had, just not the same as Adobe or Corel, but it had to buy them again)?))

    Resetting of options/settings back to default (anybody think that this is a good idea for an OS to do that?)

    Some options keep on getting buried further and further within the system, only reason for this is to make it harder and harder for people to change those options or they eventually remove options altogether. My dad makes heavy use of right click start button to get to the Control Panel (an option that is deprecated and to be removed in favor of the less powerful Settings Panel). To get that back, have to use a Power Shell script in order to do right click Start button->Control Panel.

    He even had that issue that was widely reported about about documents being removed from the home directory. Yes, people should have backups, but an update shouldn't delete the files either, especially when that issue was recorded in the insider program as being an issue, that should have been flushed out before the update was released in the wild (hence one reason why I say reliance on the Insider Program solely is problematic).

    Keep in mind, that quite a few of the feature release (which there are 2 a year, way too many in my experience and it shows with what is also being reported that I may not have to deal with on dad's computer) are alone supported for 18 months from when they are released (not from when you get them, but when they are released). That effectively makes Win 10 a rolling release distro. Which means options can come and go at MS discretion. Like it or not. Just hope that one doesn't need whatever functionality (or even just like that functionality) that they are removing when they please.

    Win 10 definitely has it's issues for the Home and Pro users. They all do, but I see regression in how things are handled (especially with updates), not forward movement.

    In some ways Win 10 is better, but in quite a few important ways it isn't. I actually miss the 9x days and actually being able to boot in to DOS and fix issues, at least we could fix issues back then instead of relying on someone else to fix them, that may or may not be able to (we may not be able to either, but at least we would have had the option to try, 1803 and 1809 both have things that were never quite fixed).


    KB4507456 I believe is the update that they are talking about in the article.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. unclebun

    unclebun Very Active Member

    If we're relying on anecdotal experience, I could compare your one Windows 10 computer experience with the 5 we have at the shop and 4 at home, all of which I built myself and shepherded from their Windows 7 origins into Windows 10, and conclude that maybe you're a lousy computer administrator. I really haven't experienced anything adverse.
     
  15. Bly

    Bly Very Active Member

    2,766
    273
    83
    Mar 9, 2004
    Sydney
    Same here.
    We have 5 Win 10 PCs at work and 3 at home with no issues.
     
  16. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

    5,864
    228
    63
    Sep 27, 2010
    Mid TN
    Simple search online would produce plenty of examples as well. It's not all that uncommon of an issue.

    I have a friend that runs IT and they all run Enterprise Windows and they have their issues, but they are stuck on Windows due to very proprietary medical software. I don't know the ends and outs of their dilemmas though.

    While I used to have sympathy for Windows (certainly more then Mac) due to having numerous hardware/software combinations to try to compensate for, forcing updates mitigates that.


    Very possible.

    Maybe it's just easier for this "lousy computer administrator" to maintain Manjaro (rolling release Arch) with KDE, KDE Neon (pseudo rolling release (rolling release KDE DE and KDE apps with an Ubuntu LTS base)), and Kubuntu LTS on my main office rig. Zero issues on my end. Maybe Linux is just a far easier kernel for a "lousy computer administrator" to maintain versus NT. I certainly don't have to deal with "driver hell" (and that was another issue I forgot about Win 10, during an update, it would update to either an old or a new Nvidia driver that would cause his displays to get all wonky, there is a reason why a particular video driver is used (and dad doesn't get the cheapy stuff either, the parts we get for him take about 4 or 5 months before the forums have help with)).

    Anything is possible.

    I can promise you, I would rather have the alpha state of ReactOS to deal with then this and that OS is a nightmare at this stage (certainly moreso then Win 10, but I exaggerate for effect).
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2019
  17. Texas_Signmaker

    Texas_Signmaker Very Active Signmaker

    3,050
    1,138
    113
    Oct 21, 2016
    Frisco, TX
    I second that motion. No issues here with 10. Computers have gotten remarkably more stable and user friendly as they advance. I dont remember the last time I even had an issue...I just use it and its fast and works.
     
  18. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

    5,864
    228
    63
    Sep 27, 2010
    Mid TN
    I did a simple search for Win 10 updates on here. Had one user complaining about networking issues after the Creator's Update (which if you don't do networking shares this isn't so much of an issue that one would ever experience, I would with having a NAS (actually 4) on my systems. I don't think the networking issue has ever been resolved fully (in general, I think the user with the help of Signburst got his issue fixed).

    Saw another user talking about problems with his Gerber machine communication and driver issues getting borked after an update, this was after posting an article about how it is being highly suggest things patched with updates for zero days that have existed since the 9x era of Windows that still exist in Win 10 (gotta love the legacy APIs in Windows).

    Had another user on here talking about how wonky keybindings got after a Win 10 update (which another user confirmed had been experienced by others).

    Let's not forget that MS gave up on trying to fix update 1809 (that wasn't that long ago, maybe y'all got that update, maybe y'all didn't, depends on if y'all had it on deferment and for how long). How is this anyone's definition of stable?

    Bare in mind, I'm not against updating the system. There are always going to be flaws that need to be patched, but this current system in place is not good. Some won't have a problem with, some will. That's the way it's always been.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2019
  19. equippaint

    equippaint Very Active Member

    1,855
    529
    113
    Oct 10, 2014
    Florida
    Bet if yall left your computers alone as they came and just used them, you wouldnt have all of these issues.
    Im seeing a strong correlation between the arm chair software engineers and pc problems.
     
  20. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

    5,864
    228
    63
    Sep 27, 2010
    Mid TN
    Kinda hard to do that with a custom build PC. I haven't had a store bought PC (which typically run 2 yrs behind the latest and greatest out there) since the XP days.

    Having said that, I do agree that the fact of having custom list of parts put into a computer does raise the risk of something untoward happening. Especially the more bleeding edge that it is. However, having mandated feature release updates also adds that as well.

    I could actually get behind forced security/patch updates. I could get behind that. Not the feature release updates though.

    But that doesn't obfuscate the issues of the updates. Windows has made it much, much harder to do tweaks to the system then say the 9x days where one could really fubar an install without much effort as well.

    Contrast that to my experience with Linux to where one can fubar an install as much as they want, not quite as easy as the 9x days, but certainly much easier then how Windows is now and yet, no worries at all.

    I wouldn't call people that put together their own custom builds software engineers even armchair ones. Unless there is another reason why "armchair software engineers" is coming to your mind?
     
Loading...

Share This Page

 


Loading...