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Freakin' Scanvec

Discussion in 'Flexi' started by eforer, Nov 5, 2007.

  1. eforer

    eforer Active Member

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    Upgraded to 8.5, exported my old (custom) profiles (prior to upgrading) and used the legacy conversion tool after I performed the upgrade and bang! Now on all my profiles, it prints a very light beige where it should be white. I use adobe RGB 1998 as my RGB input profile, pass it a 255,255,255 white square and it prints a very light beige. I temporarlly resolved the problem by color mapping it, but WTF?!? Not a problem in 8.1! Also, at least in my install, you still need the hardware key.

    Also, there was no documentation on the new dynamic PPD feature and the person I spoke to on the phone prior to performing the upgrade didn't know what the feature was, didn't know where to find documentation on it and was unwilling to forward me to someone who was more knowledgeable. Fortunately setting it up is self explanatory once the software is installed. Still, super lame.

    I think I'm going to cut a check and buy Wasatch tomorrow.
     
    Tags:
  2. Graphics2u

    Graphics2u Very Active Member

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    Check the lineraztion and make sure they are not all on 100. I had a similar problem except I was using 7.6 and something was messed up when I would load presets and the linearization files weren't installing correctly. Made the whites light yellowish and the grays kind of beige. I don't remember what I did to fix it but it's a place to start.
     
  3. Flame

    Flame Major Contributor

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    For starters try using CMYK on everything. I mean, the printer is going to print CMYK, why design in RGB???

    And when I upgraded from 7.6 to 8.1, all of my colors changed. I had to come up with new profiles as it totally messed up the one I was using. So that means importing a new profile, setting the ink limits etc.

    Moral of the story, never upgrade Flexi. I swear it gets worse with each upgrade....... I'm keeping my current version until the cows come home.
     
  4. Derf

    Derf Very Active Member

    Actually if you design in RGB you can maximize you printers gamut. Most software applications dumb down the CMYK gamut far below what your printer can actually print.

    the trick is to know what gamut you printer can print then set up your design software to interpolate your printers CMYK profile in RGB. then you can manage your color space a lot better. I work in sRGB and have Photoshop set up to view as CMYK. This allows you to send your customers a tagged sRGB PDF soft proof and as long as they open it in Acrobat the colors will correct with in 90% on what you see on your screen. there are some limitations but for the most part RGB is a more manageable color space as long as you know how to dumb it down to a CMYK gamut for your printer.


    Try printing something in RGB then convert the file to CMYK you will see a color shift in the print. the CMYK will print with the computers CMYK gamut not your printers Maximum CMYK gamut.

    The RGB file will not be as rich as it is on your screen unless you have calibrated you monitor but it will still be a larger gamut then if you let your design software decide the CMYK gamut.

    My rule of thumb is send the largest gamut to the RIP and let the Rip maximize the gamut. Do some testing and you will see what I'm talking about.
     
  5. bob

    bob Major Contributor

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    Somewhat less than a Good Idea. Work in RGB and let the RIP sort it out once at print time. Most RIP packages are far better at this than whatever design/display software you might be using. Moreover, you avoid any intermediate translations from/to RGB and CMYK, each one of which necessarily results in some color loss and/or shift.
     
  6. Flame

    Flame Major Contributor

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    Hmm... weird. I do everythign but web design in CMYK. I work off my color chart, so instead of using a pantone grey, I use a K35, etc.

    So far I have had poor luck with sending RGB to my printer. And CMYK makes more sense in my mind ( I mean... heck, I am printing in CMYK, why design in RGB?).

    Just my $0.02
     
  7. Techman

    Techman Major Contributor

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    Time to get/ add on new tehcniques.. RGB...
     
  8. eforer

    eforer Active Member

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    Definitely always work in RGB. While I agree with the don't mess with a good thing mentality, the dynamic PPD support is going to really help me with some special projects, so its worth the headaches for me at least.

    Graphics2U, thats a good thought. Still I have to wonder why the legacy profile importer would change my linearzation. These are all profiles I made with my X-Rite DTP-41 and obviously my original profiles had appropriate linearization. Makes me wonder what else got screwed with when they were imported with the legacy import.
     
  9. Flame

    Flame Major Contributor

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    Weird... this is the first I've heard of people actually printing in RGB.
     
  10. Sign_Boy

    Sign_Boy Major Contributor

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    I had a fellow sign buddy that would only print in RGB, I never got it but it worked.
     
  11. Flame

    Flame Major Contributor

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    I can't really diss on it until I've seen it.... but so far everyone I know designs in CMYK, and prints as such. And when I try to print RGB files, the colors come out WAY wrong.

    Probably a trick I don't know, but I haven't had good luck with it yet.
     
  12. Jackpine

    Jackpine Major Contributor

    Work in RGB and let the RIP sort it out. Larger color gamut.
     
  13. DPD

    DPD Member

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    I've never upgraed from 7.6 out of fear. In fact, I'm even fearful of upgrading XP because I don't want to affect Flexi.

    I reckon the problem is related to the RIP software in Flexi. It just sees things differently. Same with the RGB - CMYK thing. I prefer RGB and then let the RIP decide what it can do.
     
  14. javila

    javila Active Member

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    All RIPs translate your file from cmyk/rgb to LAB* before going deciding the actual cmyk ink being used by the printer. Unless you're working inside your printers cmyk color space during file creation(loading the ICC files to work in that space), you're missing out on some color ranges outside of SWOP V2, which most people use for setting up cmyk files.

    The problem some people have with working inside RGB color spaces for print is that they don't realize they're supposed to work withing the cmyk color space through RGB. So if you push a 255 R expecting a bright red, it prints out orange after being translated in the rip.

    *might not be LAB, but the point still stands that it's going to a larger gamut anyways.
     
  15. mark in tx

    mark in tx Very Active Member

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    RGB is a larger color space than CMYK, also, the actual RGB or CMYK settings you use make a big difference.
    Also the settings in your RIP, how it interprets the color information in a file make an enormous difference.


    Save a file in photoshop in adobeRGB and then sRGB, send them to the printer.
    Same with CMYK, save an eps in U.S. Sheetfed Coated, and in U.S. Web Coated (SWOP) and print it.

    You will see a difference.

    Doesn't seem to make sense?

    Remember, there are people with Phd's in color management.

    Once again I'll take the soapbox to crow about having your systems professionally color profiled.
    Also, have your color workflow professionally done.

    Well worth the money.

    ps. you can get a better red if it is saved in LAB space.
     
  16. resqfiremedic

    resqfiremedic Member

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    Just upgraded to 8.5 myself since my new laptop had "VISTA" and I havent really had a chance to use it for printing anything. Im not profiling yet but hear the rip has been upgraded. Also now you dont need a key (it disables the old one) but have to have aan internet connection to register once and then deactivate when moving to another computer. I actually liked the key better since I forget to deactivate when moving from laptop to desktop.
     
  17. eforer

    eforer Active Member

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    Mine didn't disable the key, in fact without the key it throws an error. I can still use the key on my old flexi installation on my old rip machine.
     

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