Freaking Stupid Dell botches the new XPS 17

[lbpalm]

I've been in the market for a new notebook computer for a couple years, just waiting til the right balance of power and portability was finally built into the product. The new Dell XPS 17 notebook looked like a winner. And it can be upgraded too; the RAM and other stuff isn't soldered into the product (unlike Apple's over-priced notebooks). I had planned on buying an XPS 17 and upgrading the RAM myself to 64GB and adding an after market 2TB SSD in the second, empty M2 slot. But now, as actual retail products have now reached customers (and honest feedback can be delivered) a really stupid, deal-breaking (IMHO) flaw has been uncovered.

Even if you have the XPS 17 plugged into a wall outlet via the USB-C connected 130w adapter it's still going to draw from the battery when hit with any sort of demanding loads, be it from playing games or doing creative work. And it doesn't just sip from the battery either, it will suck the juice level down to 50% in just a couple hours apparently. THAT SUCKS.

A lot of customers are ordering the higher spec'ed "Creator's Edition" versions, featuring the 8-core Core i7 10875H CPU, NVidia GeForce RTX 2060 Max-Q video board with the larger vapor chamber thermal setup and the 3840 X 2400 "UHD+" display. That config needs the full 130 watts the power adapter is supposed to provide. But apparently the AC adapters shipping with the XPS 17 are capped at 105 watts. BTW, the new XPS 15 AC unit delivers the full 130 watts even though it has a lesser GTX 1650 Ti video card.

This battery draw issue with the XPS 17 might be a good hint why both it and the new XPS 15 were not initially released with a Core i9 option. That CPU option still isn't available, not even in pre-order terms.

Why couldn't these idiots incorporate an actual dedicated power adapter port into the chassis? Why choose power via USB-C/Thunderbolt? That spec is limited to 100 watts. So they're already Jerry-rigging things by claiming to push 130 watts via USB-C only to really cap it at 105 watts. Minimizing ports numbers and variety only seems like something done for cosmetic reasons and/or to shave production costs. Maybe its sales droid bean counter types drinking the Apple Kool-Aid.

I'm glad I hesitated at ordering one of these lemons. I was very close to hitting the "buy" button last weekend. I got side-tracked by a nasty lawn care accident that put me in the hospital.

There isn't many good alternatives to the XPS 17 out there. Razer's 17 inch model is horribly overpriced. The new Alienware M17 R3 is considerably less expensive than the Razer Blade Pro 17, but its battery life is laughably lousy, almost as bad as the Alienware Area 51 laptop. BTW, I'm not at all interested in buying a desktop system. I sit in front of a desktop system all day at work. I'm not chaining my leg to another desk at home. I've wanted to move from a 15" to 17" notebook screen. The challenge is finding the right balance of features to get the job done.

I got an Alienware M51 for personal use with similar (but better) specs.
It has 2 gigantic external power supplies & is a beast.
No regrets (although expensive)

 

[Bobby H]

"M51"? Alienware has the M15 and M17 notebooks (3rd generation now available) and the Area 51 notebook featuring up to a 10-core i9 desktop CPU. Those all can be ordered in brutally powerful configurations (for lots of $$$). But they have to stay tethered to a wall outlet nearly all the time (pretty much 100% of the time with the Area 51).

 

[WildWestDesigns]

"But they have to stay tethered to a wall outlet nearly all the time (pretty much 100% of the time with the Area 51).

That's pretty much what you are going to be looking at, for the foreseeable future anyway, when trying to get radically powerful laptops. Even with ARM, power consumption used versus computer power is only good up to a certain point and then it is about as bad as the traditional x86 beasts. Most people that are on the ARM bandwagon are for it due to power consumption, but like I said, even with ARM (at least today's standards) that only goes so far, before it's just as "bad" as x86.

I honestly don't know of a place that I would go to where I wouldn't have access to an outlet. Even my truck (more so for tool charging is perhaps the OEM thinking) has outlets that I could use to charge a laptop in transit.

 

[Pauly]

I got an Alienware M51 for personal use with similar (but better) specs.
It has 2 gigantic external power supplies & is a beast.
No regrets (although expensive)

I will never understand peoples fascination with gaming laptops for business. Especially in the graphic industry where gaming laptops are only 1080p and just passes sRGB where all creator laptops with 4k displays are very near or passing adobe RGB.

 

[Bobby H]

I will never understand peoples fascination with gaming laptops for business.

I never said I wanted to buy a gaming laptop. I wanted something just powerful enough but not so top of the line powerful that it sacrifices any portability. Apple clearly understands that concept with their notebooks. It's just too bad that OSX is the wrong OS for my needs, too bad that Apple solders in most of its notebook components (RAM in particular) and too bad Intel-based Macs are on technological death row. I'm not going to buy into that mess.

Dell was trying to copy the same idea with the XPS 17 and position it to challenge the 16" MacBook Pro. It does that and then some in many regards (very good balance of power and display quality in relation to battery life). Unfortunately they tripped themselves up with quality control issues (wobbly clicky track pad), thermal problems (some customers are complaining of very hot keyboards) and of course the major blunder of an USB-C based AC adapter that doesn't give enough juice to the device.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

I never said I wanted to buy a gaming laptop.

I took that as a general comment, based on some others that did mention getting gaming laptops. The fact that another user was quoted with that response leads me to suspect that as well.

I wouldn't do gaming laptops, they work, but they aren't necessary the correct fit for this particular application.

 

[Bobby H]

I was responding to Pauly's comment.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

I was responding to Pauly's comment.

I'm fully aware, that was my response to that response.

He was making that gaming laptop comment to lbpalm, not you directly. That's atleast how I was reading it.

 

[Bobby H]

That could be the case.

 

[Reveal1]

Dangerous walking into this tech gunfight only armed with a knife. I've built several desktop systems spec'd for optimizing Adobe Creative Suite AI and PS. Have to think the principles there apply to laptops used for the same purpose. Maybe Bobby is an avid gamer, does 3D rendering, or into video editing so these thoughts might not be relevant to him. Rendering vector graphics is single core processor intensive, so a fast clock speed and single core performance is most important. Memory speed/size next in importance. GPU helpful to a point because CS will use GPU memory first before diverting final vector processing to the CPU. But core midstream workstation GPU with 4mb onboard is really all that's needed. My understanding is that Photoshop doesn't make much use of hyperthreading but does benefit somewhat from multiple cores, so again a high end processor not really vital.

BTW, my 2012 HP pavilion with cheap discrete graphics and I7, with upgraded SSD and 16mb memory runs every work application I throw at it.

 

[lbpalm]

I'm fully aware, that was my response to that response.

He was making that gaming laptop comment to lbpalm, not you directly. That's atleast how I was reading it.

lol.
I never said I use it for games.
I use it to develop/preview livery designs like this.

- Alienware (Dell) is one of the few laptop computers that comes with a desktop cpu and full desktop GPU, which is why I got it.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

lol.
I never said I use it for games.

You can get a gaming laptop and not actually use it for games (as you just said). I've always thought Alienware was marketed to the gaming crowd as well. I've had a Toshiba gaming laptop that I never used for games and I used for design work. It was the actually my last laptop that I ever had. It was when Win 7 was first released, so it's old. Still works, but the "w" key is pretty iffy.

 

[Pauly]

lol.
I never said I use it for games.
I use it to develop/preview livery designs like this.

- Alienware (Dell) is one of the few laptop computers that comes with a desktop cpu and full desktop GPU, which is why I got it.

What spec is yours? I feel like desktop grade components in a laptop is not worth it a lot of the time.
Mobile 6-8 core CPUs are pretty insane. And mobile GPUS like the 2070-2080max-q more than enough for most graphic intensive work.

 

[lbpalm]

Here it is:

Killer Wi-Fi 6 AX1650 (2x2) and Bluetooth 5.0
180W Power Adapter and 330W Power Adapter
17.3" FHD (1920 x 1080) 144Hz, IPS, NVIDIA G-SYNC, Eyesafe(R) Display Tech + Tobii Eyetracking
1TB NVMe SSD M.2 SSD
64GB, 4x16GB, DDR4 2400MHz
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 8GB GDDR6 (OC Ready)
9th Generation Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-9900K (8-Core, 16MB Cache, up to 5.0Ghz w/Turbo Boost)
Alienware TactX keyboard with per-key RGB LED AlienFX lighting, anti-ghosting, and N-Key rollover technology
Not ENERGY STAR Qualified

 

[Pauly]

Here it is:

Killer Wi-Fi 6 AX1650 (2x2) and Bluetooth 5.0
180W Power Adapter and 330W Power Adapter
17.3" FHD (1920 x 1080) 144Hz, IPS, NVIDIA G-SYNC, Eyesafe(R) Display Tech + Tobii Eyetracking
1TB NVMe SSD M.2 SSD
64GB, 4x16GB, DDR4 2400MHz
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 8GB GDDR6 (OC Ready)
9th Generation Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-9900K (8-Core, 16MB Cache, up to 5.0Ghz w/Turbo Boost)
Alienware TactX keyboard with per-key RGB LED AlienFX lighting, anti-ghosting, and N-Key rollover technology
Not ENERGY STAR Qualified

Basically top spec which is pretty cool.
But honestly, how portable is it? you need to carry 2x power bricks with you. And it’s not a light machine.

I feel like if you carry to and from work, you’re better off taking a miniITX machine around and leave a monitor where ever you use it.

 

[lbpalm]

Yes, it is not a "laptop" in the portable sense at all.
Easier to move around than a tower.
But once in place, you really don't want to start ripping out/packing up cables so you can do your email at Starbucks.
I guess people don't do that any more, right?

I now have a STR4 3990X Threadripper as my main workstation.
It is another interesting compromise.
Not the zippiest thing but it is a workhorse.
I like it!

 

[Bobby H]

Thread Bump for some updated news:
https://www.pcworld.com/article/356...ing-issues-with-some-xps-17-9700-laptops.html
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-...sn-t-as-simple-as-you-may-think.483673.0.html

Apparently Dell has quietly fixed the battery depletion issue in the 2020 Dell XPS 17 9700 notebook. Dell acknowledged some units but not all were indeed getting no more than 105 watts from the 130 watt AC adapter as well as seeing serious battery depletion while plugged in even under mundane uses like viewing web pages. But the solution apparently involves more than something simple as a firmware update. The two news articles linked above don't get into many specifics about what customers with affected systems have to do. I suspect they'll have to mail them to Dell for service (if the customers haven't already returned systems for refunds).

Dell says any new orders for XPS-17 9700 systems will not have the battery discharge problem and will be able to get the full 130 watts from the AC adapter. I guess we'll have to see about that.

 

[Pauly]

Thread Bump for some updated news:
https://www.pcworld.com/article/356...ing-issues-with-some-xps-17-9700-laptops.html
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-...sn-t-as-simple-as-you-may-think.483673.0.html

Apparently Dell has quietly fixed the battery depletion issue in the 2020 Dell XPS 17 9700 notebook. Dell acknowledged some units but not all were indeed getting no more than 105 watts from the 130 watt AC adapter as well as seeing serious battery depletion while plugged in even under mundane uses like viewing web pages. But the solution apparently involves more than something simple as a firmware update. The two news articles linked above don't get into many specifics about what customers with affected systems have to do. I suspect they'll have to mail them to Dell for service (if the customers haven't already returned systems for refunds).

Dell says any new orders for XPS-17 9700 systems will not have the battery discharge problem and will be able to get the full 130 watts from the AC adapter. I guess we'll have to see about that.

are you still getting one?

 

[Bobby H]

Still undecided. I'm weighing the pros and cons of the XPS 17 9700 against a couple other systems, such as the Razer Blade Pro 17.

The Razer unit costs a lot more, is physically bigger and gets significantly less battery life (but not nearly as horrible bad as the Alienware M17 R3). But the 17" Razer arguably has better build quality and a more powerful GPU than the XPS 17. Plus the 4K version has a 120Hz screen (FHD is 300Hz), but the downside to Razer's screen is that it emits no more than 400 nits brightness whereas the XPS 17 has a 500 nit 4K screen. The Razer Blade Pro has a far better selection of ports. The XPS 17 has 4 USB-C/Thunderbolt ports, an SD card slot and a headphone jack. A dongle with USB-3 and HDMI in included in the box, but most XPS users will have to buy some kind of expansion dock to connect other devices. Some of these Thunderbolt docks get pricey. That can make up a good bit of the cost difference. One thing bothering some reviewers about the Razer is the 8-core Core i7 CPU has its wattage capped for thermal considerations. That ends up cutting its performance scores a bit compared to Alienware's M17 and Area51 notebooks. The Razer Blade Pro 17's speakers don't sound nearly as good as those in the XPS 17. However Dell's systems have drawn complaints about audio latency issues and quirks involving their sound enhancement software.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

The Razer Blade Pro 17's speakers don't sound nearly as good as those in the XPS 17. However Dell's systems have drawn complaints about audio latency issues and quirks involving their sound enhancement software.

Have to keep in mind as well, Windows has had an issue with sound since the Vista days. In their infinite wisdom, they have added a layer of emulation ( I know how much some people love emulation of any type) and audio on Windows really has taken a hit (it no longer is being handled directly by the kernel like it used to be). It takes a lot more on the 3rd party end to compensate. I know quite a few sound engineers (in my OTR groups) that still complain about that to this day. So keep that in mind if OEMs decide to cheap out in that area.