Friends with other sign shops, why the problem

[ams]

So I was friends with about 5 local sign shops. One of them closed, another changed management, etc.

It started out great, we would borrow materials, give each other work, give discounts to each other etc. Now I am friends with only one sign shop. The rest and the others have become jerks. They don't want to talk to me anymore, they said I am nothing but competition, they aren't willing to have anything to do with me anymore. The other ones I wasn't friends with basically threw me out of the shop when I walked in to try to make friends with them.

I don't see why sign shops have to be like that. I kept buying UV direct printed stuff from them, ADA signs, etc things I couldn't make myself. So I was a paying customer. The one I am still friends with, we have no problems and are happy to help each other. I feel it's good to make friends in case you are in a pinch.

What about you guys? Do you hate all other shops or do you prefer to work with other shops.

 

[HDvinyl]

I only dislike morons.

 

[rjssigns]

It's like that here too save for a couple I work with. Margins/profits are down so they feel the need to fight and claw for every last scrap.

 

[player]

They invest heavily in equipment, space and staff to be able to have an advantage and a niche. You take their customers using their products without any of the investment and expect them to happily provide you with their services at a discount so you can continue to be their competitor...

 

[BALLPARK]

I get along with some in my area very well. Two are what I would consider friends that I would go the distance for and I have even sent business their way, when I cannot hit the deadlines for the client. One of them I ordered my flatbed printing from for a couple years. I would rather him get the funds than some biz away from us.

I enjoy talking signs with them and seeing their work. I try to become friends with those that do good work. I love the industry and find myself working on sign based projects and campaigns in my free time. If they do good work they get respect and when you show people respect it's a lot easier to become friends.

We just don't talk about project numbers, potential jobs, etc... We talk about the equipment, cool perks to being in the biz, and life in general. It would feel odd not to be able to talk with them.

I hope they have record setting sales each year. My business model is not setup for a local level, so it helps.

It's one thing to not want to become friends because of being competition. But to treat someone poorly or like a jerk... well let's just say that's a target they put on themselves. I'm sure it carries over into many other aspects of their lives.

 

[ATD Signs]

I am surprised that you were able to get along with 5 shops to begin with. Your both in the same business, both trying to make money. So tell me when a customer calls and asks you to do a job for them, do you say no I'm
to busy right now call so and so? You need every job you can get, to pay wages and pay bills, and when you give jobs away you don't make any money! Business 101 my friend, look out for yourself first.

 

[David Wright]

But we are all friends here, right?

 

[The Hobbyist]

I have never understood the animosity between similar businesses.

I ran 888-BIKETOW for 13 years in southern California. I was the FIRST dedicated 24-hour motorcycle towing company to set up there, and in that time I saw four competitors crop up. I helped them get started, and even sent them business, as they would send me business. It only made sense, since I was in San Diego's North County, and three of them were in or south of San Diego, and one was way out in the east county.

When a call would come in during the rush hour traffic, I'd pass it off to one of my competitors who was closer to the disabled bike. This gave MY customer faster service to get him off of the road, and it also freed me up to do a faster response to someone who was a lot closer to my location.

We were competitors, but FRIENDLY competitors who didn't cut each others' throats. Between the five of us, we were able to provide fast service to all of southern California. Yes, I didn't get all of the tows, but it was NICE to know that if I wanted to take a day off, I could simply pass my calls to one of the other guys who would take up the slack. If one of them needed a day off, I would cover their calls.

Unless your sign shop can do absolutely everything, it is silly to bear your fangs at your competitors. Right now, although I am not in business yet, I have three CNC tables. A 5x10 Samson plasma table, a 5x10 Samson router table, and a portable 4x4 table that can do both tasks. These tables can also paint, draw with paint pens, and use an engraver, as well as other tasks. When I DO start up a business, I hope that the sign shops in the area will come to me with work they need done, by tools that they do not have.

When you go fishing on a lake, you never catch ALL of the fish.



.

 

[BALLPARK]

It's pretty simple in my eyes... Do good work and you will stay busy.

If my buddy gets a job over me, good for him. If a not so buddy gets a job over me, then I will look into the smallest of details as to why we did not get and try to fix the issue. Either way it challenges me to do better and that is a very good thing in an industry with so many talented people.

When I start treating all competition like the enemy it will be time for me to retire. My love of this industry requires many sign friends to help capture it all. I'm the guy that will take a vacation and stop in at shops along the way. If the owner is willing to talk to me then I will drop as many good ideas to him as I can think of that will benefit him or her.

It's fun to see sign shops and new equipment.

 

[rjssigns]

They invest heavily in equipment, space and staff to be able to have an advantage and a niche. You take their customers using their products without any of the investment and expect them to happily provide you with their services at a discount so you can continue to be their competitor...

No hooks up their a**. Their decision if they choose to sell to you.

 

[Billct2]

For shops in my immediate area, I'm friends with a few, cordial with some others, and don't know the rest.
I keep my sub work out of the local area, just simpler that way.

 

[Andy D]

I believe in helping out my fellow human if I can, even competitors.
Other sign shops are not the enemy, low profit margins are, and when
we can work together, everyone does better.

 

[Andy D]

I am surprised that you were able to get along with 5 shops to begin with. Your both in the same business, both trying to make money. So tell me when a customer calls and asks you to do a job for them, do you say no I'm
to busy right now call so and so? You need every job you can get, to pay wages and pay bills, and when you give jobs away you don't make any money! Business 101 my friend, look out for yourself first.

This is exactly what we do if we can't meet their deadline or if it's something we don't produce, and I send them to the closest sign shop...
We proactively pursue larger projects, and we fit walk/call in customers when we can, but if we can't, I want my closest competition so busy on small jobs that they're
no threat on the bigger jobs.

 

[ATD Signs]

Local sign shops are the enemy when it comes with low profit margins. How many of you can run your business at $40.00 or $50.00 per hr. There is not a lot of profit left over at those prices. And if you don't match the
competitions price your customer will leave. The more sign shops in a area means less profit for you, because everyone is fighting to get that job.

 

[Andy D]

Local sign shops are the enemy when it comes with low profit margins. How many of you can run your business at $40.00 or $50.00 per hr. There is not a lot of profit left over at those prices. And if you don't match the
competitions price your customer will leave. The more sign shops in a area means less profit for you, because everyone is fighting to get that job.

You don't have any control over how many sign shops you compete against, but sharing resources
means everyone makes more profit for the same amount of work.
If you live in a town with two other sign shops, and they're cooperating with each other and referring
customers to each other, the only one that will suffer is you.

 

[TimToad]

I think you need to define "friends" better. What makes a "friend" in your eyes?

Are we cordial, respectful (not always mutually on the receiving end) and civil with our other competitors? Sure.

Does that make us "friends"? maybe, but not in my definition.

Do we cover an overflow job from time to time and do wholesale work for nearby shops that don't have a type of machine or expertise we might have? Frequently

Do a few of us borrow materials or tools from each other if in need? Regularly

Do we sip a few beers at the local craft brewery and trade shop talk, etc. after hours? At least once a week.

So, to the OP, I'd be careful about who and how you define a "friend". Maybe those others in your area were comfortable with your "friendship" when you were newer, smaller and using their services. Once the training wheels came off and you established yourself, the dynamics of the relationship changed because you no longer were depending on them, nullifying their position of superiority.

 

[ams]

It's like that here too save for a couple I work with. Margins/profits are down so they feel the need to fight and claw for every last scrap.

However new businesses are opening every day, new signs need to be made, old signs need to be removed, there is enough for everyone.
Also sign shops tend to target certain areas, some do vinyl and banners with no installs, some are strictly install companies, some are manufacturers, etc.

 

[ams]

They invest heavily in equipment, space and staff to be able to have an advantage and a niche. You take their customers using their products without any of the investment and expect them to happily provide you with their services at a discount so you can continue to be their competitor...

So basically if I referred someone to them or bought signs from that, that is hurting their business? That doesn't make any sense sorry.

 

[ams]

I am surprised that you were able to get along with 5 shops to begin with. Your both in the same business, both trying to make money. So tell me when a customer calls and asks you to do a job for them, do you say no I'm
to busy right now call so and so? You need every job you can get, to pay wages and pay bills, and when you give jobs away you don't make any money! Business 101 my friend, look out for yourself first.

Actually I have more jobs then I can keep up with. I need extra help and I have turned down some jobs because of the work load. Why? Mainly my reputation and fast turn around times.

 

[ams]

I have never understood the animosity between similar businesses.

I ran 888-BIKETOW for 13 years in southern California. I was the FIRST dedicated 24-hour motorcycle towing company to set up there, and in that time I saw four competitors crop up. I helped them get started, and even sent them business, as they would send me business. It only made sense, since I was in San Diego's North County, and three of them were in or south of San Diego, and one was way out in the east county.

When a call would come in during the rush hour traffic, I'd pass it off to one of my competitors who was closer to the disabled bike. This gave MY customer faster service to get him off of the road, and it also freed me up to do a faster response to someone who was a lot closer to my location.

We were competitors, but FRIENDLY competitors who didn't cut each others' throats. Between the five of us, we were able to provide fast service to all of southern California. Yes, I didn't get all of the tows, but it was NICE to know that if I wanted to take a day off, I could simply pass my calls to one of the other guys who would take up the slack. If one of them needed a day off, I would cover their calls.

Unless your sign shop can do absolutely everything, it is silly to bear your fangs at your competitors. Right now, although I am not in business yet, I have three CNC tables. A 5x10 Samson plasma table, a 5x10 Samson router table, and a portable 4x4 table that can do both tasks. These tables can also paint, draw with paint pens, and use an engraver, as well as other tasks. When I DO start up a business, I hope that the sign shops in the area will come to me with work they need done, by tools that they do not have.

When you go fishing on a lake, you never catch ALL of the fish.



.

Your right. Before I got into electrical signs I gave all the business to a local guy, I've also recruited extra help from other guys. It works both ways.
Do you all not use online manufacturers because they are competition? Do you only use wholesalers who sell strictly to sign shops and no one else? No you don't.
If you need a sign that you can't make, you will buy it from someone else. Why not make friends and work out a deal so you can get it faster, better quality and probably less expensive? Makes sense to me.