Frustrating Customer - LONG!

[jiarby]

Oy! One of the products we make are engraved & sublimated name tags...

A regular customer that we make engraved tags for inquired yesterday about full color tags. After hashing all that out she asks about the turnaround. I always say within 24-48hrs from the time the finished artwork is approved.

She says "great! I will get back to you". This customer is reselling these tags to her customers, she has a business concierge - IT services buisiness and does web sites and print brokering.

A few hours later I get an email...
"we decided to get the full color ones, here is the logo and the list of names... can I pick them up tonight?? Our meeting is in the morning!"

It is 3:10pm. I am already swamped with end of the school year plaque, medals, & trophy jobs with hard deadlines.

I say... "I said 1-2 days from the time the art is approved. You have not provided "ready" art so we have to do a layout then get your approval. I doubt that this will be ready before Saturday. (this was on Wednesday)

No word back.. I go about my business and at about 6:30pm I finish the job I was working on and schlep out the layout and send it to them.

She corrects a name spelling and then says:

"other than that looks good - want to be sure though that the logo coloring matches the coloring of the web color I sent over and not teal and tan - it is a deep blue and deep brown. thanks!"

Huh? "Deep Blue" and "Deep Brown"?? What does that mean?? I am printing the file THEY sent over (it was a CMYK EPS). It is a "sky blue" with a gradient fade to white. Nothing that you could confuse with "Deep Blue". The "Deep Brown" is CMYK: 32-58-91-18. More of a coffee color with a little too much magenta in my opinion.

Anyway... I couldn't sleep, so I decided to crank those tags out (9 pieces). I set up the master file so that I could do print merge from a CSV and a print imposition layout that ganged them up on a sheet. This way it is easy to make more next time. All I do is point Corel at the CSV and printmerge... double check the centering & width and print.


Then the mfg'ing... fire up the heat press, shear the dynasub to size, tape down the transfer, press the job, peel the transfer, cool, trim the tags,
apply magnet backers, bag & tag, then prep the invoice.

Anyway...
I busted my cajones and got the job done so they could pick them up at dark-thirty in the morning. I left them in a pre-arranges pickup spot outside... kind of a dropbox. I was not there when they got them.

Later this morning I get this email...

"Thank you for getting these done so fast. I appreciate it. My concern though is that the colors are blue & brown but the tags are blue & red I'll bring them to the meeting today for review but may need to redo them "

I am boiling mad... and shot off a rambling email that said this:

Maybe over the top?? Have not heard back.

BTW... The job is pre-paid. We have cc# onfile and charge each job as we do it for this customer.

I told you that color profiling is an art…

Color is actually just a perception of how an individual’s brain interprets reflected light that passes through their eyes. Lots of factors affect the light that gets reflected into the rods and cones of your eyes. The type of ambient lighting in the room, the colors of the surrounding environment (walls, carpet… anything really) can affect how a person sees the light that is reflected off a printed surface.

Eyeballs are photon sensitive sensors wired to your brain. They see light and pass that information to your brain where your neurons and synapses compare that information against things it has seen before or against “known” references. That is a great system... as long as everyone has the same sensors and the same reference information in their brain and are viewing it in the same external environment.

Some people also wear corrective lenses over their sensors (LOL! Eyeballs!) to fix some measured malfunction… that is great, but sometimes those lenses alter the light that enters the eyes.. The glasses may be tinted. They may have a photo sensitive coating that darkens them. The lenses may have varying thicknesses, and be made of different materials that filter light in different ways. All those things make a difference in how individuals see color. The fact is that everyone’s eyes are different. Everyone’s environment & ambient lighting is different.

Brown is the phrase you are using to describe what your brain thinks the color is, but it is really an abstract description of a wide range of colors. A thousand different colors could be in the “brown” family, each with a different color value…. Which one do you mean when you say “brown”?

All I can go with is that color in your file is a CMYK value… 32-58-91-18. This means the color is composed of 32% Cyan, 58% Magenta, 91% yellow, and 18% black.

I can print your file again, but will get exactly the same results unless the color in your file is changed. 58% magenta is a fair bit… and it is a major component of this color. Lots of magenta will slide the gamut towards the red side and away from the yellow side.

As a wholesale customer, we print the file you give us. I do not create the file or modify it in any way. If I reprint this file again then I will get exactly the same results. If you want a “browner” brown then the CMYK values for the color will need to be modified.

Ah… but modified to WHAT?? Less Magenta? More Cyan? Is that too much yellow? Maybe more black? Or perhaps some of all those options!? That’s the rub. To do color matching you have to compare a “known” sample of the target color to an array of different blocks of the test color that vary incrementally by only one variable. It is a time consuming tedious process. We print a bunch of swatches, you look at them and if we do that enough you will end up with a color you like. That all takes lots of time and test prints not budgeted into single piece pricing.

Unfortunately, you sent me the order at 3pm and wanted the job done by the next morning. With the end of the school year this week things are quite busy in the engraving and awards business. I do not think you appreciate the effort I expended to complete this job for you. Did you see the time stamp on the email saying it was ready?

Sorry for the rant! How did the meeting go?

 

[mark in tx]

Much less sarcastic response I would have to the situation. You handled it with aplomb.

I do hope you charged an appropriate rush fee.

 

[rushworks graphics]

"sorry for the rant! how did the meeting go?" i like that! lol............ don't blame you one bit for your rant! we have had customers like this in the past where you ben dover backwards to accomadate them for them to turn around and do something stupid!

 

[Pat Whatley]

Dude...if you'd sent me that email I'd have been disputing the credit card charges just because you were being a _____head. I understand you're dealing with ridiculousness here but the first half of that could have been eliminated and the second half reworded. All she needed to know was that you printed the file to match the color profiles provided in the artwork.

Just my thoughts. She's wrong in all of this, of course, but the email seems kind of obnoxious to me.

And don't take that to mean I've never sent any emails to customers I regretted moments after hitting the SEND button. :ROFLMAO:

 

[Baz]

When it comes to color ... Pantone numbers or it will be "close to what i see on MY screen". This situation sucks but ... It happens even to the best of us.

 

[CES020]

Sorry folks, Pantone doesn't work with dye sub stuff. It's not like printing on a normal printer. You can't simply put in "Pantone 317" and have Pantone 317 come out. Very few people that do dye sub in this scale of product will ever attempt to match colors. It's a very tough thing to do with dye sub.

 

[Baz]

Sorry folks, Pantone doesn't work with dye sub stuff. It's not like printing on a normal printer. You can't simply put in "Pantone 317" and have Pantone 317 come out. Very few people that do dye sub in this scale of product will ever attempt to match colors. It's a very tough thing to do with dye sub.

Tough as it is ... In my mind it doesnt matter if you are mixing cake frosting or trying to print with whatever printer/ink combo you have. The pantone book is a must for anybody wishing to communicate about the same color when not in person.

"Deep Blue" and "Deep Brown" are not accurate enough. Talk to me about Pantone 280c and Pantone 476c then i will know what colors you are talking about and i will know myself when i am in production if the colors coming out the printer are close or not.

 

[mark galoob]

i would have been insulted had you sent that to me...basically, you fired that customer...no biggie, just sayin...


mark galoob

 

[WildWestDesigns]

I can understand the email, I've unfortunately sent my fair share of ones that I wish I could take back. I have one customer that is always doing the color dance with me. Only reason I tolerate them is because they spend a lot of money my way, but I've also gotten better about her color issues.

Although I must say I dodge the bullet probably more times then the rest of y'all with my embroidery work (although I do get it with my sublimation jobs though, so don't think I'm totally home free). Only so many options within thread colors.

 

[CES020]

Tough as it is ... In my mind it doesnt matter if you are mixing cake frosting or trying to print with whatever printer/ink combo you have. The pantone book is a must for anybody wishing to communicate about the same color when not in person.

"Deep Blue" and "Deep Brown" are not accurate enough. Talk to me about Pantone 280c and Pantone 476c then i will know what colors you are talking about and i will know myself when i am in production if the colors coming out the printer are close or not.

I agree, you have to start somewhere. The small format dye sub world doesn't support pantone colors, as a whole, as far as I know. The icc profiles supplied by the ink manufacturer and the people that sell printers and substrates don't offer any pantone supported profiles that I am aware of. There are ways to work through it, so I agree, tell me what color you want and I'll tell you how close I can get, don't tell me what color you want, and I can hit that every time

 

[ddarlak]

Tough as it is ... In my mind it doesnt matter if you are mixing cake frosting or trying to print with whatever printer/ink combo you have. The pantone book is a must for anybody wishing to communicate about the same color when not in person.

"Deep Blue" and "Deep Brown" are not accurate enough. Talk to me about Pantone 280c and Pantone 476c then i will know what colors you are talking about and i will know myself when i am in production if the colors coming out the printer are close or not.

 

[ddarlak]

i would have been insulted had you sent that to me...

i believe the intent WAS to insult and educate, which accomplished both.

something tells me she will be back, as she hasn't the knowledge to get it right the first time, she will be back...

 

[randya]

Perhaps the best you can do is process out the pantone chart on the material and have the customer sign off on the color they choose.

I realise this is more difficult for small dye sub, but it does give the customer the 'choice' of which color they want, and you already know you can provide 'that' color.

Or just go the route:
"I was trying to capture the gorgeous blue in your eyes and that hot red lipstick you were wearing" lol.....

 

[Fitch]

Nothing beats matching colours by eye.

Period.

 

[ddarlak]

Perhaps the best you can do is process out the pantone chart on the material and have the customer sign off on the color they choose.

I realise this is more difficult for small dye sub, but it does give the customer the 'choice' of which color they want, and you already know you can provide 'that' color.

????

this was a last minute rush job, where the client provided artwork in CMYK...

its a no brainer, client is an idiot....

 

[randya]

I understand the issue.

Many of my customers print out the Pantone charts on a variety of materials and have the customer pick the color that they want (since you have already printed those), then design using this color. Tthis put the onus back on the customer and the color they picked and signed off on.

There are no issue about 'color matching' because the customer picked the color they wanted from the swatches you already prepared.

And it gives the customer the 'choice'.

Dye sub on small parts make this more expense and difficult up front, but does provide reliable color reproduction of what the customer choses.

It is a very simplified method of 'color management'.

 

[Baz]

I don't bother with pantone colors on the computer. Whenever i see them before i print, i refer to my pre-printed color charts and my pantone book to see if i can pick off some really close matches. I'l print off some rectangles with the chosen colors and if they are good then change the colors in the artwork and off i go to something else.

I don't know if it's possible to print out some charts on a small dye-sub machine though. I have no clue what the size limitations are.

 

[jiarby]

The layout is what the custy approved... I did nothing to the colors, we used their EPS

The "proof" was a snagit screen shot... sent in an HTML email that I am 100% positive she only glanced at on the screen of her blackberry.

I doubt my dyesub printer is calibrated to her blackberry screen.

Still haven't heard back!

Sure, we can print swatches.. but then you also have to press them on to a substrate. Tempurature, Time, & Pressure all make a difference and there are 1000's of different substrates! Tiles, FRP, Aluminum, Polyester Shirts, Mugs, mousepads, etc...

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Sure, we can print swatches.. but then you also have to press them on to a substrate. Tempurature, Time, & Pressure all make a difference and there are 1000's of different substrates! Tiles, FRP, Aluminum, Polyester Shirts, Mugs, mousepads, etc...

Aaahhhh yes, the joys of sublimation. But it does have it's perks, just not that.

 

[Baz]

Sure, we can print swatches.. but then you also have to press them on to a substrate. Tempurature, Time, & Pressure all make a difference and there are 1000's of different substrates! Tiles, FRP, Aluminum, Polyester Shirts, Mugs, mousepads, etc...

Ouch! I'd be nervous as hell knocking out a rush job then.

 

[PromoGuyTy]

Oy! One of the products we make are engraved & sublimated name tags...

A regular customer that we make engraved tags for inquired yesterday about full color tags. After hashing all that out she asks about the turnaround. I always say within 24-48hrs from the time the finished artwork is approved.

She says "great! I will get back to you". This customer is reselling these tags to her customers, she has a business concierge - IT services buisiness and does web sites and print brokering.

A few hours later I get an email...
"we decided to get the full color ones, here is the logo and the list of names... can I pick them up tonight?? Our meeting is in the morning!"

It is 3:10pm. I am already swamped with end of the school year plaque, medals, & trophy jobs with hard deadlines.

I say... "I said 1-2 days from the time the art is approved. You have not provided "ready" art so we have to do a layout then get your approval. I doubt that this will be ready before Saturday. (this was on Wednesday)

No word back.. I go about my business and at about 6:30pm I finish the job I was working on and schlep out the layout and send it to them.

She corrects a name spelling and then says:



Huh? "Deep Blue" and "Deep Brown"?? What does that mean?? I am printing the file THEY sent over (it was a CMYK EPS). It is a "sky blue" with a gradient fade to white. Nothing that you could confuse with "Deep Blue". The "Deep Brown" is CMYK: 32-58-91-18. More of a coffee color with a little too much magenta in my opinion.

Anyway... I couldn't sleep, so I decided to crank those tags out (9 pieces). I set up the master file so that I could do print merge from a CSV and a print imposition layout that ganged them up on a sheet. This way it is easy to make more next time. All I do is point Corel at the CSV and printmerge... double check the centering & width and print.


Then the mfg'ing... fire up the heat press, shear the dynasub to size, tape down the transfer, press the job, peel the transfer, cool, trim the tags,
apply magnet backers, bag & tag, then prep the invoice.

Anyway...
I busted my cajones and got the job done so they could pick them up at dark-thirty in the morning. I left them in a pre-arranges pickup spot outside... kind of a dropbox. I was not there when they got them.

Later this morning I get this email...



I am boiling mad... and shot off a rambling email that said this:

Maybe over the top?? Have not heard back.

BTW... The job is pre-paid. We have cc# onfile and charge each job as we do it for this customer.

First of all, sure, customer here is obviously not too color savvy...

I've had customers with color issues make me wanna' scream, too....but I'd call that email response pretty "over the top"...unprofessional...and just way too dang long.

Call 'em out, or even fire 'em, politely, professionally, if you have to...but geez', you don't have to write 'em a whole novel...

How about an email like this:

=========
Sorry for the unexpected color. We printed directly from the provided files....but I guess it turned out different than you'd expected.

Sorry we didn't have time for a proof on this rush job.

If you'd like, we'll be happy to reprint this job for you at a 50% discount.

Just let us know-

Thanks!

=========

Then, of course the next job, let them know that you REQUIRE them to approve a color proof at $XX.00 or sign a disclaimer that says "No color match available" or something similar.