Frustrating

[HulkSmash]

We charge install by the sq-ft not by the time. I go for for quality not speed.

If my competition had a Latex printer and I was losing jobs because of turn around time then I could understand it, that's not my problem.

It's a big mistake to charge by the square footage. We can wrap a 200 sqft box truck in 2 hrs, and a 200 sqft vw beetle in 8... see where i'm going?


But 2850 is pretty pricey in my area for a wrap. MArkets are different though.

 

[mudmedia]

It's a big mistake to charge by the square footage. We can wrap a 200 sqft box truck in 2 hrs, and a 200 sqft vw beetle in 8... see where i'm going?


But 2850 is pretty pricey in my area for a wrap. MArkets are different though.

Markets are definitely different! I get people out of state always telling me that we should be able to get more out here in California..I think it is starting to be just the opposite.

People are getting more for wraps back east and down south than we do here in CA. And yet our taxes and cost of living is stupid ridiculous.

 

[Gino]

I never said anything about my competition doing lousy work, I said they weren't laminating a few trailers that I've seen. No where did I comment on the quality of work.

2nd of all I said it's almost a weeks, work 1 day print, 1 day laminate and trim 2 days install. That seems like close to week to me start to finish!

There is not the demand in the area to produce a wrap and install it in 1-2 days We're in a city of 60,000 people. It doesn't make sense here.


My main issue is everyday there's more and more people willing to more work for less $$.

I point blank asked you in the sceond post, if they were doing a good job.... and by beating around the bush, you alluded to they weren't. You are correct, you never said they did lousy or low level work, but it sounded that way to me.

Second of all, 4 days is almost a week as you just stated, so what's wrong with that ??

There is not the demand in the area to produce a wrap and install it in 1-2 days We're in a city of 60,000 people. It doesn't make sense here.
That, I just don't plain understand. What's the city count have to do with how good or fast you are at your job ?? With that kind thinking, I could go into a restaurant for a meal and it takes 4 hours to cook it because the the place isn't full ??

Your last point is about the only one that is 100% true...... and it's only getting worse.

We have a competitor, that will wrap that pickup from front to back in about 3 or so days and gets about $1,200 to $1,500 for it.... with lam. Go figure. Heck, he took a regular pick up from us for $900. This same guy now is doing neon work in an illegal facility, without any licensing. Someday, he'll get caught, but until then he's only about 1/2 mile from our shop. When I get tire kickers, I send them his way.

Does he get alot of work ?? I guess. I really don't care. I won't compete with $1,500, but $2850 I would try to figure out a way to convince the people to go with me or beat the other guy's price.

 

[WB]

It's a big mistake to charge by the square footage. We can wrap a 200 sqft box truck in 2 hrs, and a 200 sqft vw beetle in 8... see where i'm going?


But 2850 is pretty pricey in my area for a wrap. MArkets are different though.

Price varies as the difficulty increases. A couple weeks ago I did a 24' 5ton truck in 5 hrs by myself. I think we charged $1.5 a sq.ft which left us with almost $600 for the install.. This truck I think we're in at $2.25.

I agree it's not the best way to price but that's what we're trying right now. If it was strictly an installer and that's all I did all day then that's how I would price jobs. like I said we're trying it.

 

[WB]

I point blank asked you in the sceond post, if they were doing a good job.... and by beating around the bush, you alluded to they weren't. You are correct, you never said they did lousy or low level work, but it sounded that way to me.

Second of all, 4 days is almost a week as you just stated, so what's wrong with that ??

There is not the demand in the area to produce a wrap and install it in 1-2 days We're in a city of 60,000 people. It doesn't make sense here.
That, I just don't plain understand. What's the city count have to do with how good or fast you are at your job ?? With that kind thinking, I could go into a restaurant for a meal and it takes 4 hours to cook it because the the place isn't full ??

Your last point is about the only one that is 100% true...... and it's only getting worse.

We have a competitor, that will wrap that pickup from front to back in about 3 or so days and gets about $1,200 to $1,500 for it.... with lam. Go figure. Heck, he took a regular pick up from us for $900. This same guy now is doing neon work in an illegal facility, without any licensing. Someday, he'll get caught, but until then he's only about 1/2 mile from our shop. When I get tire kickers, I send them his way.

Does he get alot of work ?? I guess. I really don't care. I won't compete with $1,500, but $2850 I would try to figure out a way to convince the people to go with me or beat the other guy's price.

I guess what I mean by there's no demand is that it doesn't make sense for someone in my market to try and turn around wraps that quickly, that's not the norm, people don't expect that quick of a turn around so there no reason for me to invest in the equipment, staff and overhead to do it that quickly. If I was doing 2-3 full wraps a week then I could justify it but when you do one every 2-3 months it's just not feasible.

I get more wraps install for other companies from out of province lately then I do my own locally.

 

[Gino]

So, because the expectation is low.... you play into that and consider a 2 day job to be a 4 day job and should charge for 4 days instead of the norm at 2 days ??

I'm not condemning it, I just see it as wrong to your customers, to yourself and your business. Evidently, your competition doesn't use this same philosophy and are getting their share of the market and possibly yours with your laid back business model.

Let's put it together. You claim they get $2850 for doing a job perfectly as you recently cleared up for me. [See, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, that they were cheaper due to low-grade work and quality]. So, perhaps they are turning it out in a day or so less than you and that's the only difference. See, that's where I'd do my homework. Find out how long they take and if the prices are truly what your customer is telling you and not lying to you. If they did two vehicles a week, they'd be doubling their money compared to you.

If ya wanna stay competitive, you hafta know what your competition is doing and how. ​

 

[Zonka]

Low demand?

Out of curiosity where in Canada are you?

 

[ProWraps]

if that takes you a week, theres your problem. a day to print? do you watch the printer go back and forth?

thats a 6-8 hour install for one guy, flawless. i dont want to here we focus on quality not speed stuff. a good installer will have BOTH, not have to focus on either.

we would get $2295 here without design. we would be LUCKY to get another $250 for design.

and yes, we can make money on it.

 

[Techman]

I cannot begin to list how many jobs I got over the years simply because I could say I would start a job faster and they would lose almost no service time.. Bring your vehicle over here at 6PM. Do not be late. Late means more down time for your vehicle.

Usually run the job in the day of approval,, started install evening after hours and be done before any one else could get started. Total out of service time for them was hours.. Not days.. Price was irrelevant. They wanted their vehicle back in service right now. Not in days.

Is this a hint to a few??? I hope so.. I know a few will say they wouldn't work through the night for double pay..

 

[SameDay Signs]

I'm in a small town and i still wish I could get that. I've got a guy that I will say does a good job but still hes at about $2000 for that job. That's just ridiculous in my opinion but hell he can do the wraps I'm fine with doing all the banners and signs he passes up because he thinks he is a full time nascar wrap shop or something

 

[WB]

So, because the expectation is low.... you play into that and consider a 2 day job to be a 4 day job and should charge for 4 days instead of the norm at 2 days ??

I'm not condemning it, I just see it as wrong to your customers, to yourself and your business. Evidently, your competition doesn't use this same philosophy and are getting their share of the market and possibly yours with your laid back business model.

Let's put it together. You claim they get $2850 for doing a job perfectly as you recently cleared up for me. [See, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, that they were cheaper due to low-grade work and quality]. So, perhaps they are turning it out in a day or so less than you and that's the only difference. See, that's where I'd do my homework. Find out how long they take and if the prices are truly what your customer is telling you and not lying to you. If they did two vehicles a week, they'd be doubling their money compared to you.

If ya wanna stay competitive, you hafta know what your competition is doing and how. ​

The expectations are exactly what they should be for my area.. If the expectations where we anything different then I would change the way we do business to meet them.
I'm saying that it would take me 4 days to turn this job around with my equipment and staff, No where did I say the customer gets charged extra, maybe you consider that slow but around here that is completely normal.
If your finishing a full wrap like this in 2 days start to finish from the time you hit print until the time the customer drives away then you must know something I don't.

As for the competition, I know alot about them. We're on level playing fields except for 1 major factor.. OVERHEAD.. They have little to none.

I'm not going to get into install times.. Anyone that can wrap a 20' foot truck, roof, bumpers, windows and all in 8hrs including cleaning it properly gets my praise.

7-8 years ago I could sell a banner stand for $1200 now there's a guy down the road selling them for $99.. maybe you can help me with that too.


I's just like to add, I'm an employee not an owner. I have alot of pull but I do not set the rules.. I have no control over our pricing, If I were running the show things might be different but I'm not. I've been doing this for more then 10 years and I've seen alot of companies come and go and every time a new one pops up the prices drop.

 

[WB]

Out of curiosity where in Canada are you?

East Coast.. NB

 

[tsgstl]

The expectations are exactly what they should be for my area.. If the expectations where we anything different then I would change the way we do business to meet them.
I'm saying that it would take me 4 days to turn this job around with my equipment and staff, No where did I say the customer gets charged extra, maybe you consider that slow but around here that is completely normal.
If your finishing a full wrap like this in 2 days start to finish from the time you hit print until the time the customer drives away then you must know something I don't.

As for the competition, I know alot about them. We're on level playing fields except for 1 major factor.. OVERHEAD.. They have little to none.

I'm not going to get into install times.. Anyone that can wrap a 20' foot truck, roof, bumpers, windows and all in 8hrs including cleaning it properly gets my praise.

7-8 years ago I could sell a banner stand for $1200 now there's a guy down the road selling them for $99.. maybe you can help me with that too.


I's just like to add, I'm an employee not an owner. I have alot of pull but I do not set the rules.. I have no control over our pricing, If I were running the show things might be different but I'm not. I've been doing this for more then 10 years and I've seen alot of companies come and go and every time a new one pops up the prices drop.

Spoken like a vallued employee, I hope you get treated good.

 

[WB]

Looks like we got the Job. Customer should be in today to pay a deposit.
The competition sent the guy 3 designs and he didn't like any of them so he's going with us. The kicker is he still going with a 3rd party designer and willing to pay them $1000 rather then give us an extra $500.
I have a bad feeling about this one.

 

[Gino]

Glad ya got it, but why is he paying more to you than the other guy ?? Just over the design ??

Why is it.... if the other guy's 'everything' is every bit as good as yours, he just doesn't use the new designer and stay with the other guy ?? That only makes good business sense.

Anyway, whatever you guys are doing, it must be working, so I guess it's good your boss is making the decisions.

Anyway, your story is hard to follow for it changes everytime you add another post from they are cheap for no reason other than they don't lam, to they are equal, they have no overhead to they have lousy designs. Had you mentioned most of this early on.... you wouldn't be so confusing to others.

I will say, I still don't understand why it is in your town, you get four days to do what almost the rest of the world does in 2 days. 10 years or 10 minutes.... if you know your business, you should be capable of doing this in a reasonable amount of time and save the company time and money and do two of these a week. You said earlier, that you only get these kinds of installs every so often. Perhaps, if you.... or your boss changed your requirements.... you'd get more of these jobs coming through your doors.

Instead of being all defensive and chit, just stop and read what many of us here have said..... It's not that you're slow..... you have made the abnorm your norm and it doesn't work well, as you have stated several times..... by not getting these jobs. Perhaps looking at your procedure and do this more as an assembly line kinda deal, you'd tap into an untried model up your way. Just try it once and see what happens before you poo-poo the idea.


As for the lost $1,200 banner, I don't have any particulars, so no, I can't help, but maybe someone else here could pull one out of their hat, just for you.

 

[johnnysigns]

I cannot begin to list how many jobs I got over the years simply because I could say I would start a job faster and they would lose almost no service time.. Bring your vehicle over here at 6PM. Do not be late. Late means more down time for your vehicle.

Usually run the job in the day of approval,, started install evening after hours and be done before any one else could get started. Total out of service time for them was hours.. Not days.. Price was irrelevant. They wanted their vehicle back in service right now. Not in days.

Is this a hint to a few??? I hope so.. I know a few will say they wouldn't work through the night for double pay..

I stay very busy doing weekend wrap installs based on this same premise.

 

[WB]

Glad ya got it, but why is he paying more to you than the other guy ?? Just over the design ??

Why is it.... if the other guy's 'everything' is every bit as good as yours, he just doesn't use the new designer and stay with the other guy ?? That only makes good business sense.

Anyway, whatever you guys are doing, it must be working, so I guess it's good your boss is making the decisions.

Anyway, your story is hard to follow for it changes everytime you add another post from they are cheap for no reason other than they don't lam, to they are equal, they have no overhead to they have lousy designs. Had you mentioned most of this early on.... you wouldn't be so confusing to others.

I will say, I still don't understand why it is in your town, you get four days to do what almost the rest of the world does in 2 days. 10 years or 10 minutes.... if you know your business, you should be capable of doing this in a reasonable amount of time and save the company time and money and do two of these a week. You said earlier, that you only get these kinds of installs every so often. Perhaps, if you.... or your boss changed your requirements.... you'd get more of these jobs coming through your doors.

Instead of being all defensive and chit, just stop and read what many of us here have said..... It's not that you're slow..... you have made the abnorm your norm and it doesn't work well, as you have stated several times..... by not getting these jobs. Perhaps looking at your procedure and do this more as an assembly line kinda deal, you'd tap into an untried model up your way. Just try it once and see what happens before you poo-poo the idea.


As for the lost $1,200 banner, I don't have any particulars, so no, I can't help, but maybe someone else here could pull one out of their hat, just for you.

Gino I can't tell if your ignorant or arrogant?

How can you sit there and tell me that I don't know what the "Norm" is for my area which I've been working in for the past 16 years!
Your comparing your State that has a population of over 12 Million people in it to a province with 750,000? Hell all of Atlantic Canada only have 2.5 Million people and that 4 provinces!

By your standards every graphics company in the USA and in Canada should follow your business model because that's what works for you!?

Gino I respect your opinions I just don't agree with them. I'd be happy to further this conversation using PM's or email if you'd like.

Bill

 

[trimitbyrich]

Whew! Gettin hot up in here.

 

[Gino]

Gino I can't tell if your ignorant or arrogant?

How can you sit there and tell me that I don't know what the "Norm" is for my area which I've been working in for the past 16 years!
Your comparing your State that has a population of over 12 Million people in it to a province with 750,000? Hell all of Atlantic Canada only have 2.5 Million people and that 4 provinces!

By your standards every graphics company in the USA and in Canada should follow your business model because that's what works for you!?

Gino I respect your opinions I just don't agree with them. I'd be happy to further this conversation using PM's or email if you'd like.

Bill

Nah, Bill..... I'd rather do here in the open. I save PM's for saying rotten condescending messages..... and receiving them. :Big Laugh
​

So, nope, not being ignorant or arrogant, just stubborn and listening closely to what you say.

Let's get the logistics down first. We service an area of about a 25 mile radius. My town has around 85,000 and most of them are illegal aliens, so a good 1/3 of that number doesn't count. I really don't care what the number of people in your area is cause frankly, the population had/has nothing to do with any of my statements.

Next.... I know people in their field of business, much longer than your 16 years and that doesn't amount to squat for many of them. They just surround themselves with good people or they're just lucky. Very few are skilled. Most likely yourself included. I'm not mocking you, just stating the facts as you put them out there.

Was it you or not, that first mentioned you're losing jobs to others doing the job for less than what you were used to getting some time ago ?? You therefore are setting up some form of a 'norm'. You used to get these jobs, but no longer are because of price..... most of the time. [This one happened to come back]. You only mentioned price, because you corrected me and said your competition is NOT doing bad work, in fact you complimented them on their ability and they do everything you do. The customer is not having you or the other company do the design, so there is no questions in that department, either. I was not comparing our business model to that of the world, but that ours is just like the rest of the world and all the other posters here who have said repeatedly, this is a 2 day job, but you keep saying in your area, it's a 4 day job. Again, that makes one think you are slower than the best shops and the average shops.... which evidently.... is where your competition is these days. If they are indeed faster than you, they can trim their labor costs and knock out two vehicles a week compared to your one.

You still following here, Bill ?? I'm not making fun of or bashing you, but putting the facts out as you presented them so painlessly slow.
​

My remarks had to do with you possibly taking the proverbial bull by the horns and being the shop to definitely do two vehicles a week and thus create a way to reduce your in-house costs and give your customers a more competitive quote, possibly getting back some of your lost accounts. However, you like so many others tend to take this to heart and make fun of others trying to help you. There's no skin off my nose if you don't want to at least think about bettering yourself.


Okay, your turn to refute everything.

​

 

[WB]

I guess my issue is with the 2 days turn around, I don't see how's possible for me to do this job in 2 days without hiring more staff and upgrading equipment.

1 person doing all the production and installation on a solvent printer. If you can explain that to me so it makes sense then this next wrap will be the Guinea Pig, I just don't see how that's possible. I personally don't even like laminating the next day because I don't think that's enough time for the vinyl to off gas.

As for the installation. Today in 6-7 hrs I wrapped 2 sides and the hood of a 2012 dodge Caravan. That's me speed, tomorrow I'll finish the bumpers and the rear. It will only take me until lunch but to me that's a 2 day install. This truck for me is a 2 day install, I'm a 3M preferred installer I know what I'm doing it's far more worth it to me to do this right the 1st time then try and rush just to have the customer come back.

The thing that bugs me and what made me start this thread is that fact that there's more and more people out there willing to do the more work for less $$. I could understand if it was the same amount of work and we lost the job. This guy got 3 designs before he even committed to the job, they're basically giving they're design work away for free, it's kinda hard for me to justify keeping a designer when I can't get any $$ for his work?

Bottom line is we can't base our prices on what everyone else's are, we need to make a profit. My quality of work will have to keep people coming back not my cheap prices.

Like I said if you can explain to me how I can do these job faster I'm all ears.